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This thread is more than I've learned about the US Greco program in the last 5 years, and it still isn't much. Why is everyone so quiet? Certainly USA Wrestling should say more. They fire Lindland without explanation, then force out (I assume) Ivanov without explanation. Then they drop this doozy last week, buried in an article about Herb House: "At this time, the organization is not seeking a General Manager, Greco-Roman Programs, nor a National Greco-Roman Head Coach." See https://www.teamusa.org/USA-Wrestling/Features/2022/December/05/Herb-House-hired-as-Assistant-National-Coach Why? They won't say. OK, so how about the wrestling media step up? Every single article I've seen about Lindland and Ivanov's departures merely states the fact of their leaving, and parrots the press releases -- without asking a single question, nor making a single observation, nor securing a single third-party comment. And as for the biggest Greco story of the year -- G'Angelo Hancock dropping out of Worlds just before it started, in purported "retirement" -- I'm aware of a single article (from flowrestling.com), and I couldn't help but laugh at Flo's penetrating expose: Hancock, 25, was only getting better. Now he’s gone. And no one seems to care. When was the last time a high-level athlete retired weeks before the biggest competition of the year? . . . . It just doesn’t happen. If it did, the media would analyze it for weeks. Bye-bye, G’Angelo. Hope you enjoyed your stay in Greco. See https://www.flowrestling.org/articles/7965845-gangelo-hancocks-departure-from-greco-left-many-questions That's Flo's hard-hitting piece: gee, how come the media isn't analyzing this. No interviews, no attempts to reach out to G'Angelo or any coaches or teammates or anyone at USA Wrestling for comment. Just "Bye-bye, G'Angelo." You'd think that flowrestling doesn't consider itself, you know... wrestling media. Apparently not, since they dropped the question just as quickly as they raised it. OK, so the media won't do its job -- TimmyHands excepted. But here we are, with a new forum, no longer under the thumb of USA Wrestling with its censor-button at the ready. I'm pretty sure Willie couldn't give a crap if people air USA Wrestling's dirty laundry here. Yet even with many of the posts here, while more than I knew before, are just so... cryptic. Doing something "a bit unethical"? What's that all about? What's with the constant coaching turnover, the sudden retirement, the refusal to hire a new head coach? I realize most commenters are as out-of-the-know as I am, but I'm sure there are also people in the know who read this. Make an account under a pseudonym and spill the beans. What's going on and how can it be fixed? I get that Greco has bigger problems than secrecy -- e.g. limited interest, limited exposure, minimal funding, USAW indifference. But if you're a bright young Greco prospect or his parent, and you see all these secretive behind-the-door machinations with no one talking -- the sort of stuff you see at a university right before it drops its wrestling program -- would you continue to pursue that interest or move to something else?

1. Agreed. Biden is not responsible for inflation. This is an inherited situation from the previous administration, combined with Russian moronic and homicidal leadership. This isn't a simple "cause and effect" situation. Economists all know the economy doesn't work that way. In an F1 car, a twitch will turn you 180. On an aircraft carrier, it may take miles. The economy is more of a carrier. Let's be fair - Trump was accused of the economic downturn caused by Covid. He didn't deal with Covid well, but the economic results were not his fault. Any sitting president would have experienced a similar trial. 2. You said nothing more on item #2 other than quoting a slack article (not fact nor data) - so I am unable to respond to your personal contribution. The truth is that Trump has been campaigning for getting out of these "endless wars" since he got on the DC stage. Other than the border wall, this was probably the only real policy Trump was ever behind that wasn't independently created by the Senate. To think that Biden, somehow, made a bad decision by actually getting us out of Afghanistan (instead of just talking about it for years), doesn't make much sense. We were all in agreement on this one. At a cost of $300 million per day to keep us in Afghanistan, getting out was a welcome decision across the board. The president isn't ever involved in the logistics of specific military operations. Period. Anybody who thinks otherwise is simply confused. The military leadership handles the budget, manpower, planning and, most importantly, manages the risks involved in each operation. Blaming a failure by military leadership on Biden is simply BS. 3. Agreed. Border with Mexico is one of those difficult things that none of us, regardless of political leanings, has had any answer to for many decades. Trump had zero answers. "Build wall" is, and was, not a solution. (Consider this, if it was viable, then why is nobody asking for it now?) Trump had no other new solutions at all - he had no "slow down" or "drip mode", he has changed nothing. Again, be honest, he spent much more time on Twitter than actually doing anything about the border other than repeating his "build wall" nonsense. This isn't a D vs R issue. We would ALL really like to figure out a way to get the border under control. Too bad that so many politicians would rather divide us so we continue to argue between ourselves rather than work to find solutions. Title 42 is NOT being ignored. We all wish we had all the answers. But we don't. Haven't had for decades. Not having an answer isn't the same as "ignoring." I think you are being quite reasonable, given the weakness of your sources. I have no political bent, so that isn't an issue. Be careful what you trust as "Facts and data?" ... they may well be "on the record", which is good. Because, after review, we see much of it is garbage. The bad news sites get by because so many of us are too lazy to critically review them. Even the best web news sites are only as good as our ability to filter them.

And for those who read these here forums was reported after dual meet. btw: I had a plain english muffin with butter this morning.

57 KG Richards? When we 'have' our guys in, he has never really been in our contenders discussion. Do we think he is there now, or just that he wrestled out of his mind? I am leaning towards the latter. I still think when it comes down to WTT guys like NATO or Gilman or Suriano are going to win fairly comfortably. Speaking of Suriano - His interview was an interesting watch. We didn't learn much from his match other than he can win Suriano-type matches in Freestyle (still). 61 KG Gross is one of those stories that you just... you can't help but hope he does well. Then when it comes to watching him wrestle you also can't help but worry that he is going to get outgunned. He just isn't that athletic and some of the guys he faces can expose that. It didn't happen here, fortunately. There was still a few seconds in the Iran match before he got on top that had me worried. 65 KG I think 65 KG is a gauntlet. I think it is a gauntlet and Johnny D is going to get exposed by long, athletic grapplers here and there - unless he pushes and gets on the board early and often. I still do think he can beat anybody in the world, but guys that are elite in the athleticism or raw power who hold themselves so positionally sound department will give him headaches. If he can find a way to score he can beat them. I just... this Irani kid... he has a wingspan like Kevin Durant man. I don't know how he wrestles a better match than he did against him - and he still lost. Also, if they change the grounded rule? He loses that match via technical superiority. 70 KG A bit surprised that Berger didn't get the nod against Iran here. The coaches know what they are doing, obviously, but Berger held the last win, was higher on the ladder, and has looked phenomenal as well. Berger looked flawless against Mongolia and looks to be right there to contend for a spot on the national team this season. Pantaleo now? Nice, right? Also, just looked... Berger placed higher, but Pantaleo beat him via 3-2 in the QF of the WTT, so I was wrong there. I think Berger beat him the previous time? Not sure now: https://insideourgame.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Men27sFreestyleWTT28629.pdf Anyways... where does Pantaleo get ranked now? He just beat two Top 10 guys. It wasn't convincing, but it was a result that not many of our other 70 KG guys have even had an opportunity to do. 74 KG I think Nolf looked great. The one match that frustrated me to watch was his match. The kid didn't even try to engage. He didn't have to, but Nolf kept trying to get in there. He'll make the adjustments and win that match, probably convincingly, next time. I thought this was the guy that Dake had to get a last second score to beat 2-2 at Worlds, but it wasn't. Cenzo didn't look good. I don't imagine it was the drop to 74 KG, because one of those joke-rumors that were always floating about were that him and Nolf would swap. It was known that he went 165 because he couldn't beat Retherford or Nolf, so there was that too. That said, he isn't particularly lean for the weight, even if he has the hips of a 184lber to bring to the match. Wrestling is more than hips and trips, though, and he needs to show that if he is going to be a factor. 79 KG JB huh? The guy he lost to just beat Sidakov a few weeks ago too. This isn't a bad loss. He needs to adjust - and he will. If he intends to stay on the small side of 79 KG, though - which he has indicated, then he might now win this match the next time either. Luckily styles do make matches, and he might not even see this Irani at worlds. 86 KG The Hair. O.M.F.G. 92 KG Nate Jackson showed up, man. I am not really a fan of his because of his lack of defense, but when you're rocking an 11/10 on the offense for half the match, that can get it done for you. I am looking forward to seeing what he can do at the Worlds stage, if he is our rep. I am still not convinced he will be, though. I think Hidlay is a nightmare matchup for him and guys like Moore and Macchiavello are going to give him everything he can handle. 97 KG Captain America sealed it for us. I was concerned it would be a 1 TD match and it might end up like the Cox-Ghas matches. I was wrong and Snyder's size was the deciding factor. He had a larger frame than Snyder, but he was considerably less thick and it wore on him. I still wonder if he will drop to 86 KG and challenge Yazdani. I know Karimi already made the drop and lost to Yazdani 7-4. 125 KG Iran has some weapons at 125 for the next decade+ and it is scary. Kerkvliet got absolutely slaughtered by Zare the last time the wrestled, and Zare has progressionally leaped a few times since then. Parris did pin Zare, but I don't think he does that again. Cassioppi? The guy that hammered him got hammered by Masoumi. We have talked about how this could be the golden age for us for heavyweights, and unless Steveson comes back Iran will have at least two heavies that should be favored above our youth guys. I am curious how Zillmer stacks up against Kerk and Cassioppi. He lost to Parris in one of his first HWT outings, and I don't see that match going much differently the next time they wrestle. We have a honeypot of guys at 125 that could all win or lose depending on the matchup and it might cost us when it comes to Worlds, because right now I think only Parris and Kerk have a chance to medal at Worlds. Kerk could lose to Bradley, though and Parris to Gwiazdowski. Brackets/seeds will matter. This said... Zillmer? Man the testicular fortitude and tank on this guy, right? For being so undersized on these international heavies, he NEVER BACKS DOWN. If I am going in to a hostile environment and I am thinking someone might want to sneak one on me, I am taking this guy 10/10 times. Fckn hell. 86 KG HAHA... had you there, right? Valencia looked phenominal for 2.25 matches. After the first 90 seconds against Karimi it seemed like he just... lost his gas tank a bit. Karimi is elite. Anyone saying DT techs that guy? GTFOH. You. Know. Nothing. This said, he is a big 86 KG guy and that wore on Zahid a bit. I still want Zahid to go to Mexico. He could be a medal threat for the next decade there. He might not even make a team here for a couple-few more years.

I imagine most of you guys won't be coming to New Orleans but if any of you are let us know. Would love to meet some of you.

Did someone say tongue?

For future reference I know the Iron Sheik threatened to put Elon Musk in a camel clutch.

You do. Other crapstains just don't get the rivalry.

@Husker_Du about to go on an all-timer Mardi Gras for 2 months straight

In a recent conversation with a D1 coach about adding women's wrestling (they already have mens) , he said it would be difficult because there are more women's teams at the school now than men's teams and are looking to add another mens sport. It would be interesting to see what schools actually have erred on the side of women's sports recently creating the need to either cut a women's program or add a mens program. At Auburn they currently have 17 sports - 8 mens and 9 women's - however there are about 30 more men participating overall. All that to say that there are situations that are coming about where adding just a mens team would be feasible in light of Title IX.

At the WV dual he was wrapped and on crutches. I believe he should be back in a couple of weeks.

In the 5 years when the Big Ten has added USC, UCLA, Oregon, Washington, Notre Dame, and Stanford… I hope they all have wrestling Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Andonian probably wins versus Jacques but I doubt him bonuses him. Wouldn’t be shock to see Jacques win. Most of Jacques matches are low scoring affairs.

I'm a Mizzou fan, but give credit where credit is due. Virginia Tech has been a tough dual for the Tigers and have won the last 3 outings. All have been nail biters. Your only as tough as the company you keep and I'd rather take a close lost that prepares you for post season, than easy W's that measure nothing and are not as intriguing to follow. Building a deep roster, developing talent, and staying healthy are all part of the equation of W's and L's. I'm most proud of the fact that 5 of the 10 wrestlers in the lineup were products of Missouri high schools and chose the "Tiger Style" culture. Brian Smith is as concerned about building "good men" as he is building "good wrestlers!" If he continues to keep most the best "Show Me" wrestlers at home, we will be ok.

I'd encourage you to read up a little more on Iranian history then if that's what your belief is. Post 1980 Iran does not define the other near 3000 years of Iranian history. I do agree that Iranians are currently being repressed by an evil regime and I hope for a change but this is nowhere near "Iranian culture*. In fact very little of the regime is Iranian.

Labeling Iranians getting jailed for protesting as "Iranian culture" does not help prove your point.

Its a pastry thread but sure ... you gotta be you.

Twelve shots of Jim Beam and a case of White Claw for me.

Irrelevant what they say about rankings. By definition, they are opinions. Even if they lay out a large amount of "specific" criteria. The criteria they lay out are based on someone or some groups opinions. What the NCAA uses although specific is still based on opinion.

Eight hours in a car after flying into Memphis the morning of, driving 2 hours, announcing, and then driving 7-8 hours more is not my idea of a great wrestling trip.

... Did that the first 2-3 times I went down there. I think my favorite spot so far, aside from Lost Forty Brewing, is Gus's Fried Chicken downtown.

You didn't say that. You said the last time they wrestled, which is 100% incorrect.

Michigan and tOSU? Also this...

I am not saying he couldn't tech him. I am saying that predicting it is dumb. The guy was a runner-up to Cox two years in a row - losing by one point a weight class up, right?

nhs and I have a heated one...

Prata made the blood round last year , Moore made the R12 2 seasons ago , Henson is just a freshman with a lot of AA potential

i have started several replies that i have scrapped for various reasons... mostly because a bunch of old guys whining on a forum does nothing to help... absolutely nothing... what is even more horrifying is that speaking to people involved in the program does not seem to have any affect either... personally, i am about ready to wash my hands of USAW... any guesses on how many in the greco program feel that exact way? this hiring process for the OTC coach feels like the last straw... i could spit out 2 names that were not even granted an interview that would make your head swim... form letters were sent out in response to their applications... we are talking about world and olympic medalists... there are not many of those in US greco, so, anyone could make some pretty decent guesses and would be right on almost all of them... again... i have no "inside" info on why ivanov "resigned" but clearly USAW and he were not seeing eye to eye on how he was conducting the search for a new coach... did he throw up his hands and tell them to kick rocks because they were meddling in his job? possibly... did USAW throw up their hands because ivanov was going off the reservation and doing some things that did not fit in with their "just barely support greco enough so we can say we are supporting greco" and (more importantly) don't cause waves and just show up and keep the machine limping along? possibly... either way, the events of the last couple of weeks, last year, last quad, last whatever are not being learned from at all... it is still a bunch of little kingdoms warring with each other over whatever scraps are thrown out the back door... the cattiness that goes on is similar to what anyone can witness on a daily basis on these forums... the comments i heard (secondhand) made by a coach at the camp this week made me want to punch a baby... they were in regards to one of our senior world team members... the lack of support and commitment was a little shocking... based off of the one conversation i have had with this coach, i was not surprised per se, but, still incredibly disappointing... so... what does someone who truly loves greco do now? well... some do their own thing... results vary...

It's the dumb kids saying the smart kids are picking on them because they are using big words.

Don't yuck on someone's yum. Just silently judge them for liking the trashy soap opera like a good midwesterner.

Looks good!

I’m announcing in Little Rock on Sunday, but getting to NOLA by Monday morning from a border state proved to be too much of a pain in the ass. Will be watching from my speakeasy.

Sure wished Mizzou was competing in the duals. But I also remember when they wrestled at Reno and had some good results. Got to think New Orleans would be a fun place to watch wrestling and check out the local scene. Too bad we don't see more college wrestling programs in the south. Was actually glad to see wrestling started at Arkansas-Little Rock. Good luck to all the dual teams.

I’ll watch it when I get a chance

If this weren't written 135 years earlier, I'd swear it was about DJT: “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.” ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov If people read instead of watching the boob tube, and read something besides social media, they may have a vastly different opinion of the jerk. Many, many verses from the bible and quotes from great writers that could be paraphrased "Don't be a Trump".

I think it would be great to have UW Huskies and WSU Cougars to have wrestling again. For UW, they dropped it in 1979 I believe. I was a junior in HS then and I remember not believing it. We had an older guy that graduated from my HS (and wrestled for UW) come back to the HS and be an asst coach. I thought he was pretty cool. I saw him a few years ago as his son was doing pretty well. But his son was a jerk on and off the mat. I went over to talk to his dad and it was apparent the apple did not fall far from the tree. Lost any respect I had for him. But that's another story. I'd love for WA to get some NCAA-1 wrestling going. mspart

Same here. Thankfully we had the WC to keep us busy. Masterclass in nothingness. It's the hair. It was a fun dual. I enjoyed it.

As stated above, you can have hard rules like not posting explicit pictures or someone's real name and address. However, the ones that really should be banned do not break those easy rules to defend. It can be argued to death if Trump's tweets instigated a riot. It can be argued to death that NJ Dan is annoying and abrasive and makes this place less enticing to visit. More or less Twitter didn't want Trump to use their platform to spread his lies. That is the reason behind him being banned, plain and simple. Just like McDonalds can ban me from going in there after I pee all over the counter, Twitter can ban someone for whatever reason they want. None of this should surprise anyone with regards to how big companies do business. Wait until you hear about FTX and how they sent lobbyists to decrease regulations so they could steal more money. For someone that wants less government, it sounds like you want more.

I think Oregon State wrestled tough despite the landslide score. Whisenhunt and Tolentino are True Freshman and Belton and Olguin each still have two years after this year I believe. Definitely need help at 275 and 197 after Harvey leaves.

OU's lineup: 125) VA Tech 133) Iowa 141) Northern Colorado 149) VA Tech 165) Purdue 197) No Iowa

Just to be clear, Minnow's first report was that Glory would be up at 133. I know he backtracked, but it couldn't possibly be funnier that he wrestled his very next possible match at 125.

Meanwhile here we are seven pages later...

the Iranian fans here, as always, are VERY vocal and supportive of their wrestlers. The new thing they bring to this event are LOUD vocal protests of what is going on in Iran and wanting major change at home.

I don't let myself cut weight.

True!! Ben askern said today all Wisconsin has to do is the 1 paper and burwick can wrestle. It's on their desk!

Hey! Hey! Hey! The topic is "Burwick" - not Iowa, okay? Start another thread.

Don't think that's entirely accurate. He was drawing rasslers from many other areas of the country as well.

When I was wrestling there were books written by Gable, stories of Iowa, really no other premier program to hear of.