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Unfortunately, I think there are some busy (or lazy) coaches who don't know every result and use flo/intermat as the basis for their coaches rankings.

It's being gamed to a ridiculous extent. Should be pretty straightforward to call that fleeing the mat

It doesn’t stop at insult, it is intended to dehumanize, instead of deplorables, cult of personality, bitter clingers, not your dad’s republicans.

I wrestled with a former HS wrestler yesterday, he showed up to BJJ practice looking to prepare for Senior Nationals (65kg). Lol we did live takedowns for about an hour (he got 0). He's like, man you're great, you could challenge Burroughs you think? .... I was like, I'm 39, overweight, and had 4 beers before I came up here. He says you think you'd make the finals in Fort Worth? I again let him know, I wouldn't score a single point. He said, well if I can't beat you, do you think I have a shot at top 3? I was like, whatever happens, enjoy the experience. He just didn't understand the skill level of our best. But just checked the entrants and he really signed up

Is there another sport played by more middle-aged, overweight people with drug habits? Golf notwithstanding.

Megaludis has 4: McDonough, Delgado, Garrett, Tomasello

Mizzou it is

I remember a time when people would look at that list and come to the conclusion Elon Musk was the problem.

You sound like someone who can't stomach the thought of another person eating a snickers bar with a knife and fork!

Should we fear a dictator who isn't smart enough to be a dictator?

Okay, so here is a little bit more of a bit of fun. I took Intermat, Flowrestling, The Open Mat, The Wrestling Report, and Wrestlestat's rankings (ratings for Wrestlestat, mind you) and compiled the Top 20 from each, giving them reverse order compensation (20 points for 1, 19 for 2, 18 for 3, etc.). In the Top 20 of all five, only 24 wrestlers are represented and here is what it spit out...

Swamp! Congress voted across lines in the 60s and stopped by the 90s. https://www.vox.com/2015/4/23/8485443/polarization-congress-visualization https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0123507#sec008

That's an all time bad ranking. I'm thinking of starting a weekly segment where i discuss rankings moves I like and don't like. and that's not a knock on flo. i like some of their decisions, and i don't wholly agree with every Intermat decision (although it's considerably less frequent). maybe i could look at other sets and make a thing of it.

Elam is the returning 3rd placer AT 197 and undefeated. Ok, I get Brooks. I get Buchanan, since he beat Rocky at NCAA’s twice in 2022. Hidlay has a comparable resume AT 184, and against common opponents (8-1 vs 9-1), but has never beat Elam. (Wrestlestat predicts an Elam win, btw) Elam has split with Sloan and beat Smith at last NCAA’s. He’s 14-4 vs Smith’s 7-7 against common opponents. Little isn’t even worth the comparison. Rankings are no big deal of course, but I couldn’t help but note that Smith, Little, and Sloan have losses THIS year. Sloan is the only one who started higher ranked than Elam(which I note he still is, despite losing to Smith). Dude has finished 5,4,3 and was Jr World Champ, and yet he’s ranked behind 6 guys, only 2 of which have ever beaten Elam or someone Elam lost to. He must be the most disrespected wrestler in the country right now.

Historically Greg Jones would be an example. One of the best ever but seemed like an afterthought even when he was competing. Modern day would be Austin O'Conner, if he's wrestled for iowa, which would have been a good fit he'd have been talked about constantly. And for fun, the anti example, a big market wrestler no ones thinks about and i have no idea why TJ Williams. 1 loss in three years at Iowa.

Back in the day most dudes couldn’t do the splits. Now they’re all like hockey goalies and can slip that back leg to the floor. Make the mats bigger.

Cory Clark with FIVE : Nashon Garrett, Nathan Tomasello, Jesse Delgado, Nico Megaludis, Cody Brewer

i just tried to listen to FRL and its not possible.

Congrats Tigers fans! I hope this opens up a new pipeline from Lehigh Valley to Columbia

Too bad he isn't bigger and older so we could talk about the Rath of Kollin on Captain Kerk.

What comes to mind immediately Better purchase power More affordable healthcare coverage for my family Safety ( "come home before dark" ) Playing multiple sports & unstructured play Family More... (no particular order) Family was better; the two-parent household was more common; parents spent more time with their kids. Affordability: providing for oneself and family was easier. People were healthier, less obese, had better food, and had cheaper health care. Better mental health Kids played multiple recreational sports; they were not specialized in competitive club sports at age 7... not every minute of their day was planned. I used to wave down police cars, socialize, and collect baseball cards for my home team. Baseball cards were priced from Becket magazine rather than sent off for professional grading Adults were treated with respect. Sir, Maam, Hold the door open, pull out the chair, etc., and so on. My car was safe to park in the city; there was no fear of stolen gas, converters, or broken windows. Fights were settled with words or fists, not weapons. Not all popular songs had offensive lyrics. But also, MTV. Space exploration was better funded. Darker skies made it easier to see stars; less light pollution The news was 'just the news.' / Journalism Humans staffed customer service The government was smaller Congress voted across party lines Privacy 14-year-olds looked like they were 14 years old rather than 21-year-olds People were not trying to get social media likes Air travel was easier You could say Merry Christmas rather than Happy Holidays Working at a company for more than two years was common Looney Tunes Disney Appliances lasted for years and years Less national debt College was more affordable Calling for genocide was considered harassment Less cancel culture More things were 'made in America' Less illegal immigration People spent more time outside Did you read this Pride to be an American Slower pace of life Buy local People made eye contact and spoke with others rather than staring at their phones School taught practical skills You had five seconds to eat food that touched the floor Was this necessary for you to understand the point made? I don't mind adding more examples to what was unnecessarily provided before... its good to write... it forces clarity of thought. Queue the criticism for wrongthink and lack of mentioning privilege in 3...2...1... Action!

You are the one that chose to vent on the chat board. So I chatted. It was unwelcome. Which really is quite strange on a chat board. Thoughts and prayers to you neutral. Just kidding. Or not. mspart

Give AJ Ferrari a chance and maybe Suriano will seem a bit more normal?

Here is how I have the current crop of 97 KG gents tiered... and mind you it might be a bit 'off' but some of these guys are roofers... and some is speculation due to them not having much in results at the weight. Also a disclaimer, these aren't rankings or projections. The way I do my tiers (most know) is that I wouldn't be surprised to see someone defeat someone a tier above them or a tier below them. Tier 1 Kollin Moore, Ohio - Titan Mercury Wrestling Club (TMWC) Tier 2 Nathan Jackson, New Jersey - New York Athletic Club Tier 3 Eric Schultz, Illinois - Nebraska Wrestling Training Center Jonathan Aiello, Virginia - Titan Mercury Wrestling Club (TMWC) Jacob Warner, Iowa - Titan Mercury Wrestling Club (TMWC) Anthony Cassioppi, Illinois - Titan Mercury Wrestling Club (TMWC) Tier 4 Timothy Dudley, South Carolina - Sunkist Kids Wrestling Club Lou DePrez, New York - Bearcat Wrestling Club Tier 5 Tyrie Houghton, North Carolina - Titan Mercury Wrestling Club (TMWC) Morgan Smith, Washington - Titan Mercury Wrestling Club (TMWC) Cole Mirasola, Wisconsin - Askren Wrestling Academy Duncan Lee, Iowa - Cyclone Regional Training Center C-RTC Other Entries Eulogio Rosino Dalmeida, Nebraska Austin Craig, Washington - 10 Year Active Athlete List Eric Gamble, Pennsylvania Sterling Hecox, Illinois

Maybe an extra year of eligibility? Lol

This is why I love Bill Burr....he talks about Trump and liberals and think his take is spot on...the whole clip is great but this part starts about 7:20 min in

I don’t have an official list, but I’ve heard Mizzou, Nebraska and PSU in no particular order.

You might want to show him a video on the Dunning-Kruger effect. If that doesn't work, be sure to videotape the match so that those of us who appreciate the occasional dose of Schadenfreude can watch.

Don't forget domestic terrorists!

Nicknames to dehumanize? I wonder where that strategy could have come from?

I can’t think of one person in my vast real network that has ever uttered the term MAGA. Yet, online it’s used daily as a slur.

Great minds and simple minds often think alike one another. I know I am pretty simple, but I had you held to higher regard, mate.

His wife also has potential.

this already exists. We now have three CP threads at once? His publicist is working overtime.

Fix maybe. Ivy schools don't allow grad students to compete. Jake Logan is in his fifth year out of high school and is working on a Master's at Lehigh, but Vito is seven years out of high school and is still working on his Bachelor's. I hope Lehigh uses this as a selling point in recruiting; lots of their wrestlers leave with two degrees after five years.

A 12 pack of Micky ultrAs and I'm basically Dake

The wisdom of crowds

I understand what you're saying. All I was saying is that I see the justification there. One thing to also consider is that this isn't like the College Football Playoff who is supposed to start from scratch each week to (re)evaluate ever team. It is a week by week basis. Let's take Cole Matthews of Pittsburgh, for example. He basically got a 'bye' for his loss to Koderhandt (Navy). Miller (Maryland) got more credit for beating him (in the rankings) than Pucino (Illinois) did, though. Not due to margin of victory, but because once... okay... twice maybe on to something... three times in four match...? Something's up. Now if someone beats Matthews it will be "something's up" until proven otherwise and they won't give that wrestler as much credit as an earlier season victory for Koderhandt or Miller. That is how rankings work and also why they wrestle the match. Also, yes they look at past results, but recency bias is a factor when two people are evenly matched on paper. Unortunately, he will have not the opportunity to prove it this year, unless he heads to Midlands or the Scuffle or something to make up matches, as all he has left on his schedule is: Per Wrestlestat (ranking/projection)... - #128 Raddon (3W-2L), Wyoming - Tech 18-2 or - #22 Novak (6W-4L), Wyoming - Decision 9-2, Novak is a true frosh and expected to, hasn't wrestled his five (5) yet. - #101 Sund (2W-5L), Air Force - Tech 17-2 - #109 Pettigrew (2W-3L), Illinois - Major 15-2 - #21 Smith (5W-2L), Virginia Tech - Major 11-2 - #19 Stemmet (12W-2L), Stanford - Major 12-3 - #63 Cooley (5W-4L), West Virginia - Major 15-2 - #5 Cardenas (7W-2L), Cornell - Decision 6-3 - #10 Surber (9W-1L), Oklahoma State - Decision 8-4 - #66 Mooberry (5W-3L), North Dakota State - Major 16-2 - #3 Sloan (7W-1L), South Dakota State - Decision 6-5 (LOSS) - #28 Voelker (7W-2L), Northern Iowa - Decision 8-2 - #30 Broderson (4W-3L), Iowa State - Decision 8-3 Then at Big 12s he has the chance, additionaly (potentially), to see... - #3 Sloan, South Dakota State - #7 Buchanan (8W-0L), Oklahoma - Decision 8-3 - #10 Surber, Oklahoma State - #23 Bockman (9W-4L), Utah Valley - Decision 9-3 - #28 Voelker, Northern Iowa - #30 Broderson, Iowa State - #63 Cooley, West Virginia - #66 Mooberry, North Dakota State - #96 Cruz (6W-6L), Northern Colorado - Major 16-2 - #101 Sund, Air Force - #119 Sheeran (3W-4L), Cal Baptist - Major 16-2 - #128 Raddon, Wyoming OR #22 Novak, Wyoming Keep in mind there might be other factors playing other than the Sloan/Smith/Hidlay comparisons to look in to. He is 0W-3L in matches that actually count against Buchanan as well - which he conveniently skipped the dual for to go to the... **drumrooooooollll.......** Cougar Clash. Who did he wrestle there instead? #29 Joles (8W-2L), Minnesota - Decision 4-2 - Other loss was via 11-2 Major to Sloan - Best career win(s) are Marylands Jaron (NOT Jaxon) Smith and Oklahoma State's Doucet last season up at Heavyweight. #36 Nelson (6W-4L), Minnesota - Decision 7-0 - True frosh taking some licks against good competition - Expected four year starter starting next season - Lost to teammates Nagel and Joles as well as UNI's Voelker and Elam #48 Navel (3W-1L), Minnesota - Decision 6-3 - Not the starter for Minny - Best career win is a 4-2 Decision over teammate Gavin Nelson at the same tournament - Hasn't wrestled a full seven minute match against anyone in the Top 50 (aside for the aforementioned Nelson) #148 Mendoza (0W-2L), Little Rock-Arkansas - Pin 2:39 - Not LRA's starter - Up from 184 this year, 3W-7L as NOT the starter last year at for LRA As I said... I see what you're saying... I also see it the other way as well. They are holding that 7-2 Decision loss at NCAAs (which should hold more weight than Cougar's Clash this last weekend should it not?). I don't see how, until now, Teemer had earned his high ranking. He didn't deserve it as he had legitimately lost to Lewan his last out. Now, to me, he has earned that ranking. I haven't had time to delve through all the rankings, however here are what the other ranking services have for them... Flowrestling: #1 - Brooks, Penn State #2 - Hidlay, NC State #3 - Buchanan, Oklahoma #4 - Little, Little Rock-Arkansas #5 - Smith, Maryland #6 - Sloan, South Dakota State #7 - Elam, Missouri Intermat: #1 - Brooks, Penn State #2 - Buchanan, Oklahoma #3 - Elam, Missouri #4 - Hidlay, NC State #5 - Smith, Maryland #6 - Sloan, South Dakota State #7 - Cardenas, Cornell #13 - Little, Little Rock-Arkansas The Open Mat #1 - Brooks, Penn State #2 - Buchanan, Oklahoma #3 - Elam, Missouri #4 - Hidlay, NC State #5 - Beard, Lehigh #6 - Sloan, South Dakota State #7 - Cardenas, Cornell #9 - Smith, Maryland #10 - Little, Little Rock-Arkansas The Wrestling Report #1 - Brooks, Penn State #2 - Buchanan, Oklahoma #3 - Hidlay, NC State #4 - Elam, Missouri #5 - Little, Little Rock-Arkansas #6 - Smith, Maryland #7 - Sloan, South Dakota State Wrestlestat (RATINGS not RANKINGS) #1 - Brooks, Penn State #2 - Hidlay, NC State #3 - Sloan, South Dakota State #4 - Beard, Lehigh #5 - Cardenas, Cornell #6 - Elam, Missouri #7 - Buchanan, Oklahoma #8 - Smith, Maryland #12 - Little, Little Rock-Arkansas

The only “derogatory” thing I will say about Cox is that he may very well be on the other end of an upstart 2016 J’Den Cox ilk but that’s only because whenever a changing of the guard occurs that it tends to be so swift and brutal that no one saw it coming. Ya know, kind of like 97 worlds a few months ago

Someone let Borelli know that he's still 13 in Intermat rankings +1 @Husker_Du Also, let Borelli know that he needs to be more concerned about seeds than rankings, because they are real and stuff.

i think Pyles is one of the best guys to call a match that we have in the sport. he really knows tendencies and arsenals - i.e. what to watch for. the pool is small, but there's not too many wrestling announcers that are better.

Came across this one today randomly. Dom Mendez wants to be a homicide detective. What are some other cool or unusual majors / career goals of other guys?

Easy fix, let’s add a push out point. After watching freestyle more and more it just makes sense to 1.) mimic the international style and 2.) keep action constant and incentivize staying in the middle and banging

Too late...

Cael must be overtraining them over there

i think the ref should have discretion as to when the whistle blows, this touch the floor stuff is stupid, like how is that not a stalling call every time.

Nice to see Spencer getting in reps but I guess this means he won't be going to Deglane. Would have been nice for him to get some international feels, including refs. I also want to see the Braunagels wrestle freestyle and Luffman to go greco, and I want Cassioppi to show up in a Team Illinois singlet. Finally, I want to see Ferrari sign up at 97 for kicks and giggles. That will really get the hot takes machine firing on all cylinders

Thanks for the updates. Bigger brackets than I anticipated. mspart

As of 12:40 PM - US Eastern on December 4th, 2023.