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I started 4 years at Penn competed twice in the NCAA tournament. In 1975 I won my first round match and separated my shoulder defaulting out. It was the first injury and first time I ever missed a match because of one. I lost in the NY state finals to Jack Spates. I'm a big supporter of Penn wrestling and I'm on the EIWA Hall of Fame committee.

Had the opportunity to wrestle in college, in the PAC-10 conference (there were 10 schools at that time). Got to travel the country and even wrestle overseas. It was the toughest 5 years of my life is some ways but also the best 5 years of my life in others. Still haunted by some ghosts of "what if" but thankful for all the experiences. Got to wrestle at NCAA's 3xs and had the opportunity to be pinned by Cael at the 2001 NCAAs in Iowa City. I know my GPA and studies suffered due to all the energy I put into wrestling. However, if I was to be honest with myself I know I would have focused that energy into some other non academic venue if I hadn't wrestled.

I gotta be honest, in my head I assumed that most of the board was former college guys and that my career wouldn't stack up, looks like D1 backup isn't as far down as I would have thought, also kudos to anyone else that did it, it is a ton of work, and the talent level is so far above high school

125: Dakari Rivers, Central Missouri 133: Evan Frost, Iowa State 141: Real Woods, Iowa 149: Jackson Meadow, Colorado State 157: Jared Hill, Oklahoma 165: Derek Fields, NC State 174: Tanner Beach, Albion College 184: Cameron Pine, Clarion 197: Aaron Brooks, Penn State 285: Bryan Caves, Central Michigan Best HS Prospect: Jax Forrest

No One Talks About the Pinfelled Sure David Taylor had 11 pinfalls in his illustrious NCAA tournament career. Everyone knows that. And a few of you probably even know that Sylvester Terkay, Mark Perry, and Corey Olsen each had 8 pinfalls in their time at NCAAs. But how come no one is talking about Zack Giesen's 8 NCAA tournament pinfalls? Oh yeah, right. It is probably because he was on the wrong end of 7 of those. But don't get me wrong. He may be my new favorite wrestler. Zach Giesen wrestled for Stanford from 2008 - 2011 and won 110 matches, ending his career 4th on Stanford's all-time list. He was an All-American in 2011 finishing in sixth place. In high school he was a four timer while also earning three letters in football along with an all-state honor. In short, the dude was a stud. And somehow he still found himself staring at the lights an amazing 7 times. Let's be clear about one thing. Zach Giesen was a better wrestler than just about everyone on these forums. But there is more. He is also smarter than all of us. There are a lot of brains to go with that brawn. That is Dr. Giesen, to you. He is now a Dr. of Osteopathic Medicine specializing in invasive cardiology. Holy crap. Pinfalls - The Dark Side Honorable Mention. You can only get pinfelled a maximum of three times in any one NCAA tournament. No fun, I know. Of course that also means you are an All-American. So there is that. Between 1988 and 2021 there were two wrestlers to earn All-American the hard way. In 2017 Zac Brunson finished sixth while getting pinned three times. He was notable for getting pinned twice by the same wrestler, Brain Realbuto, in the quarters and in the fifth place match. But don't say he didn't learn anything. After getting pinfelled in 1:12 in the quarters he took what he learned there to make it to the 1:15 mark in the fifth place match. In 2016 Alec Pantaleo also finished sixth while getting pinfelled three times. I imagine that tournament left a bad taste in his mouth as his three pinfalls were in a row. After making it to the semis he went pinfall, pinfall, pinfall. Ouch, ouch, ouch. The good news for Pantaleo is he was never pinned again on his way to subsequent fifth and third place finishes.

Shane was awesome for Wisconsin HS wrestling. He had a website that was free to watch for everyone, Badgerstatewrestling.com. He and a crew of volunteer cameramen would travel to the biggest HS duals and tournaments around the state and upload everything to his website. Whichever location he was at, he would do commentary as well. A lot of times he would be doing solo commentary, but never lacked in enthusiasm or passion. It was a sad day when the site shut down. I think there's still a handful of Badgerstatewrestling videos archived on Youtube. Naturally it fell to the wayside, as the exposure got him recognition from the B1G network and eventually he moved over full time. Great and well deserved for him, and a lot of work put in to get there that the WI wrestling community saw. https://www.youtube.com/@badgerstatewrestling/videos

I struggled in high school in the greater Cleveland ,Akron area in Ohio. I was 16 starting my senior year. Highest finish in any tournament was 3 rd. Missed going to state by one match. My district was tough . State champ ,3rd and 5th place finishers ( I finished 4th). In college attended a Junior college. Had 50 wins. Placed 2nd at CKLV Tournament to Joe Tice. Qualified for nationals twice. Placing 6th. Went into coaching wrestling. Did well. Lots of state champs and 2 all-American's. At 41 I laced the shoes up and along with taking 60 youth wrestlers from our state entered in the Open Div. at the AAU Nationals. After several wins and a pin I was in the finals against a 2 time Div.1 all-american and NCAA Champ Keith Stearns . Lost to Keith 4 to 2 in overtime in the finals.

Wrestled at Penn 1989-1993. Mostly known for being injured - I broke my foot, blew out my left ACL and broke my jaw during my sophomore, junior and senior years, respectively. College and college wrestling was the most fun I never want to have again. Better GR/FS wrestler than Folk. Dabbled in open meets until my work career took me to FLA in 1998 and effectively ended my wrestling career

Was a fair to middling wrestler on a top 10 D2 team. It was late 80s to early 90s and we actually had D1 national qualifiers. I beat d1 starters and lost to d3 backups lol. I'm not sure if the difference in talent between divisions was as pronounced back then. I wrestled some Greco, made a decent account of myself against some highly ranked guys. Came out of retirement at an open when I was 33. Took 2nd out of 20 ish. Beat some college guys, lost 4-0 to a pretty decent post-collegian. Was whole body sore for over a week AND got staph!

Thanks @Wrestleknownothing for the shout out. To clarify...it's only NCAA DI tournament matches. But still pretty cool. I had a pipe dream to get as many tournaments as possible (I got banned from wrestlestat at one point for trying to scrape the whole site ). I put all this data into a graph database, which if you are a fan of the transitive property in wrestling, would be your dream data set. This type of database allows you to quickly see opponent of opponents (that you have or have not wrestled) and all different flavors of that question. I created a dashboard with NCAA results here. It's not prefect, I only had a two week trial of the software to get everything finished. https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/matt.grogan/viz/ncaa_wrestling_dashboard/MainMenu I've collected some information from my database over the years that is interesting to me at least. Transitive Property Spencer Lee vs Kyle Snyder https://x.com/johnmattgrogan/status/1085737955879206912?s=46 Looking for weights that went close to chalk on seeds https://x.com/johnmattgrogan/status/1228454891993149440?s=46 NCAA Qualifier Map https://x.com/johnmattgrogan/status/1237795546116640773?s=46 Kolat Connections https://x.com/johnmattgrogan/status/1399183333326794757?s=46 Best 1-2 Punch (actually just teammate) https://x.com/johnmattgrogan/status/1403167360819859461?s=46 Zain and Metcalf connections https://x.com/johnmattgrogan/status/1458642228537176066?s=46 AAs wrestled during NCAA appearances https://x.com/johnmattgrogan/status/1502444492636536834?s=46 David Taylor is good https://x.com/johnmattgrogan/status/1502450301231579142?s=46 Little Known James Green Fact https://x.com/johnmattgrogan/status/1502450301231579142?s=46

Graat memory. I say after you have cut weight made it through hundreds of grueling practices and wrestled against tough competition everything else seems a little easier.

I wrestled at Purdue for 3 years! I was a good HS wrestler who unfortunately was more interested in partying and being the man at night, not in the room, once I hit college. The lifestyle is incredibly demanding. 3 lifts, 7 practices, and individuals throughout the week in season. You don’t go home for winter break or summer vacation. You have to live and breathe Wrestling or you’re going to have a very bad time. Looking back I’m filled with lots of regret, but Ersland and Purdue wrestling helped shaped the man I am… it is what it is. I don’t drink now to make up for the lost time.

@grogs84 reached out to me the other day and and asked me if I wanted a data set that contained every result from every match from every tournament from 1988 - 2021. Uhhhh, does a swimmer spit in the pool? So, if you like more of these data driven discussions make sure to throw a thank you his way. On the other hand, for those of you who were hoping I would run out of ideas and data, whoo boy, look out. On the same day our own @Husker_Du offered me a better version of the Big Board to use. Rather than use what is posted on Flo (a mishmash of when they were wise enough to have Willie do it and when they were not) I got the pure stuff, right from the source. I have both data sets hooked up straight to my veins at this point, and I am ready to roll. Not telling what is going to emerge from my fever dreams now. Thank you both, gentlemen.

Wrestled at small college in MidTN. That post of the pins spiking in 2006 make a ton of sense. That was my first year in college and can tell you just how many lights are on each of the ceilings of the gyms around here. I wasn't good.

Wasn't near good enough to wrestle in college. I now live vicariously through other great wrestlers.

I was today years old when I learned that's not his real name! They were talking about his state finals match on FRL and how Ben thought the ref robbed him and were saying it's on Youtube, but I couldn't find it until learning that his real last name is Nebl. I did find a 15 year old video of him announcing a Wisconsin regional tournament where Alex Dieringer was a freshman 103-pounder though. Love Shane though, but I don't really agree with his hatred of the 3 point takedown.

I’ve been hearing more and more career stories as the season gets rolling, and it made me wonder about the community here. Did you wrestle in college? What was it like for you, both the wrestling and the lifestyle? I tried to walk-on to the NCAA team, quickly discovered meal points and boxed wine, then joined the club team by the end of my first semester. Didn’t compete too much, but was happy to fall in love with the sport in a new way!

All times Eastern, with local times in parenthesis. Thursday, November 9: Oklahoma at Central Michigan, 7:00 PM 11/09 Oklahoma - Central Michigan Dual #48 Central Michigan #22 Oklahoma

Cool comeback with the cradle. Man. Can’t ever rest

Is that you Jimmy?

we get Oklahoma vs Central Michigan in about an hour and a half. Best matches will probably be all of the middleweights. 149 (Munson vs McDougald), 157 (Lovett vs Wiley), 165 (Hubbard vs Carlson), 174 (Cramer vs Picklo)

Started wrestling as a FR in HS. Had many injuries derailing my SO/JR years, but managed to place at state my SR year (D1 Wisconsin). I wrestled D3 for 1 season. Being made of glass and struggling to balance schoolwork + social life with athletics caused me to lose my fire for competition.

D2 in Minnesota. Loved it.

Second post, as I enjoy the discussions but usually lack the knowledge to add anything substantive. Was a pretty decent HS wrestler, but never placed at the state tournament. In college, walked on at one of the academies (not hard to do back then). Survived as a wrestling room dummy for a year and a half. While I cut weight in HS, soon realized it was at a different level in college. Plus the academics and life at the academy were taxing enough for me. However, will never forget my time in the wrestling room with HOF’er coach Ed Peery and Captain (USMC) Lloyd Keaser, who was an assistant coach as he trained for the 76 Olympics. Sidebar story - Keaser was also a PE instructor who we had for self defense instruction - a perfect fit! This day the lesson was escaping from a front choke hold. Recognizing me from the wresting room, he selected me to demonstrate on. However, he was the one to apply the front choke hold and I was to escape. Needless to say, I am happy to still be alive today!

Has anyone done a preview of the Tiger Style Invite this weekend? The teams include Cal Poly, Lindenwood, Little Rock, Maryland, Missouri, and SIUE. I follow Mizzou but not the other programs closely. I would anticipate some quality matches wrestled by nonstarters. I did a quick scan of Flo's rankings and this is the list I came up with. I apologize if I missed anyone. 125. #16 and #18. 133. #28 141. #18 149. #5(157?), #15, and #16 157. #5 (from 149?), #22, and #28(??) 165. #1, 174. #6, #18 184. #10, 197. #4, #8, #18, HWT. #6, #23, #24, and #31

Welcome to the board, Mark.

FFS now I have to deal with TOS...

ftfy too

I agree I don’t think Minnow was who he was referring to as a “paid hater,” but if Minnow wasn’t on Brands’ radar before, I’m guessing he got on it with his tweets about the gambling suspensions… Edit: I actually think he was referring to Willie, but just speculation. I agree the Woods transferring episode was a little cringe but I wouldn’t really call Basch a “hater” overall, more just a PSU lover.

Taking this chance to plug my stuff on Missouri Wrestling Mizzou Podcast: https://rokfin.com/post/154727/Tigers-and-Takedowns-Tiger-Style-Invite-Preview- Article: https://rokfin.com/article/14771/Mat-Momentum-Analyzing-Mizzous-Lineup-at-the-Second-Annual-Tiger-Style-Invite

My mother also talked about changing church after 22 years... and she brought up abortion in the context of Christians who excessively live a life of sin without guilt and change because of the new age of Jesus. She said whenever she speaks about abortion being wrong... the women around her attack her view. We had a conversation that she couldn't speak her mind on that topic (my opinion). Stereotypically every woman has had or knows someone who has had an abortion. You are calling them a murderer, and they can't handle that judgment. So it's best not to speak your judgment on it and support compromised regulations. Yes, abortion is bad in your mind (and mine), but this topic spans political parties, and conservatives are going to keep losing to progressives in elections... something Mike Johnson, etc, better recognize.

Why did you stop? You were only 156 matches away from immortality.

Yes, I think the weight class reduction has added difficulty for the modern guys especially before the expansion of worlds, and for those competing at Olympic weights. I am not sure it effects Baumgartner's accomplishments as much as others. In 1996 the top weights were 90, 100, and 130kg. It then went to 87, 97, and 130kg, then 84, 96, and 120, then 86, 97, and 125kg, and now 92, 97, and 125kg in non-olympic years. I don't know that any of that moves the needle and makes soon set of weights significantly more competitive at 130/120/125kg. Would adding 3-4 kg to the second biggest weight make the top weight less competitive? If so dropping 5-10kg from the top end would make its less competitive. To me the reduction in weight classes is more of talking point in figuring out where Smith, Kemp, Jackson, and the Shultzes rank than Big Bruce.

I spoke with my mother last night... some interesting points to share. JR: Why did Dad risk his life by joining the military? He didn't risk his life; he joined the Air Force. Well, technically, he 'risked' his life, but that wasn't a concern. We had a one-year-old child, jobs, a small home, and managed okay... but his dad influenced him to take advantage of the GI Bill while he still could. JR: When did Dad complete his college? After the Air Force, and I helped him complete his written essays, etc. JR: Why and when did you go to college? When you were in pre-school in Texas... I had more free time and was thinking of going back to work. Dad asked me what I wanted to do, and I didn't know... but we had met the 'Snows' and Carrie was a nurse. She said a nurse could get into whatever field they wanted, and she enjoyed it. I completed my GED and then took an Anatomy course while you were in pre-school. I got an A! I always thought I was stupid because my dad called me that. When you started kindergarten, I took more day classes... then we moved to Kansas, and I had to get accepted to school again. I started college at 26 years old and it took me 5 years to complete the 2 year registered nurse program because of parenting duties. Your dad's dad never liked me. He thought I honey-trapped his son and later told me he was surprised I graduated. But I loved your dad's mom. She was my role model for what a good mother is. You know what, I am smart. I got a 3.83 GPA. I am quick on my feet and solve many problems at work. I didn't know I was smart until I was 30. You went to night labs with me because nobody could watch you. JR: Can people raise themself out of poverty? Some can, but it's hard. People are not motivated, and the government services don't always help. I've volunteered at the True Light Family Resource Center for over a decade. TLFRC continues to evolve programs to meet the needs of at-risk individuals in the urban community who are multi-ethnic, homeless, hungry, or without hope. We've (parents) taught skills, led bible studies, bought/rehabbed/furnished homes, arranged government assistance, fed, you name it. With this setup, these ladies lose their children and house within three months of relocation. They refuse to work, and the government pays them just enough to satisfy this dependence. This story plays itself out over and over again. JR: Unlike your brother and sister, how did you raise yourself out of poverty? Was it luck? God's plan. He put trials in front of me that I've overcome. JR interjection Is it God's plan or just people exercising their free will and decisions/actions crashing together? Like dad impregnating you, marrying you, joining the military, helping while you went to college, etc.? (Mom: I guess it is a clash of free wills, and you choose to take advantage of the opportunities provided) JR: How did my sister get out of poverty post-divorce? Was it luck? Motivation. She took out school loans, graduated, and got a degree. JR interjection Did you know she was on food stamps for a time? (Mom: nope) Did she get grants in addition to loans (Mom: I don't know) How did she manage school while having young children? (Mom: prioritized school and sacrafice) Mom Context Mom was trailer poor Mom had dentures at 18 Mom was pregnant in high school and didn't graduate Mom's father and brother in and out of jail and prison Mom's brother dropped out of school in the third grade

If you don't want to go to X (twitter) Transitive Property Spencer Lee vs Kyle Snyder NCAA Qualifier Map Kolat Connections Best 1-2 Punch (actually just teammate) Zain and Metcalf connections AAs wrestled during NCAA appearances David Taylor is good Little Known James Green Fact

He's a great candidate for the ignore feature

It is amazing how much better her arabesque has become through statistical analysis

Seriously, this is such crazy talk. First off, you ASSume things about mspart and his family and try and downgrade what he and his kids have accomplished because somehow someone else was born, potentially, into different circumstances. You want to know what is funny, you listing off a bunch of things that his kids may have not had to deal with you pretty much summed up my upbringing, and it is very offensive that you use it as a way to discourage other people and to somehow make it an excuse for not working hard to better themselves, like I did as well as my brothers and sisters did. Do you think I sit here and use my upbringing as an excuse when someone else who worked harder than me has more than me?? NO!!! But you clearly do, and it is laughable. You try and preach to everyone how you are so inclusive and all-knowing of everything and everyone's situation that you actually offend the people you think you are speaking for. And then claim the people who did in fact work hard for where they got are somehow scared of people like me who may have come from different life circumstances taking what they earned...dude, you are a joke.

The entire quote was made up to make a point like Zuby here.

Intermurals, did have small school offer but went with the 4 yr full ride academic. Thought about walk-on but prob wouldn't have a left arm now cause was never beating Lee Roy. Did beat John when in grad school ... in golf.

125 - Ventresca vs McCrone 133 - Latona vs Bouzakis 141- Church vs Mendez 149 - Henson vs D’Emilio 157 - Andonian/ Ulry vs Gallagher 165 - Brady vs Wilcox (unless Hepner has healed) 174 - Lewis vs Welsh (unless Kharch has healed and still doubtful) 184 - Fisher vs Shumate (unless Hoffman is down, which will be a surprise) 197 -Smith vs Misita (unless Geog has healed) 285 -Catka vs Feldman Bouzakis and Shumate need the matches. Geog goes unless he's still injured. Kharch sits. My good friend @nhs67 laid it out pretty thoroughly above, with the exception of Kharch losing and then winning... nhs67 is sneaky like that. GO BUCKS!

Nope. Not in college. Not in high school. Not in junior high. Not in grade school. Come to think of it, I never wrestled.

We already have somewhat of a discussion going on about this over in tOSU Club portion:

These athletes will be the Reggie Bush crew of ten years from now. This is dumb nonsense. Like every team doesn't have some towel boy circuit placing the bets all day everyday for all the players. What’re they gonna do start monitoring all friends and family activity as well? These org heads, the AD’s, and the conference heads are all TV rights brokers above all else anyway. S**t is disgusting. Apologies for the rant, but I hate seeing guys in suits take away such major opportunities for athletes when the NcAA and conferences have always been complicit in sweeping MUCH larger stuff under the rug.

Not going to lie I have been waiting a couple weeks for the right opportunity to post those tweets because they were pure gold. What have you Flo? Nevermind, I'm sure they will only poach the topics they "like" from this here message board before reminding us it is a "cesspool."

Personally, I chime in out of a sense of responsibility. When posters spread misinformation, make ridiculous accusations, etc. I am motivated to step in. I think it's important that the 'other side' of the argument is represented - and represented just as strongly as the misinformation is being presented. Maybe it means nothing. Maybe it's a waste of my time. Maybe just a soap opera. College wrestling is getting fired up as I type... probably a good time to leave here and get back to wrestling. Maybe a few more posts as a parting gift.

My money is on Burr.

The odds seem to be in favor of that occurring.

as soon as all debts are paid

It seems that 3pt does not appreciate hard work and what it can do to open doors. Not surprising viewing the other things he has written. I've seen this play out. I have 5 boys. One is a hard worker, has various businesses he owns and is successful and makes a lot of money. Yes, he got some breaks. But it was his hard work and do not take NO for an answer that made him successful. He tries to get his brothers to take such entrepreneurial risks but they are unwilling to put in such effort. So they are not as successful as he is. All are very smart, but he is really the only one that takes action. They all started similarly. I have to say, I am not near as bold as he is, so the other 4 take more after me. I'm not sure where the one son got his drive at but that is the difference. He makes more than me. Now to be fair, I have another son that got a college degree and got a job at a place. He quit and got a better job and more pay but not like the one son. But he's doing ok. Another has an associates college degree, but has a pretty good job doing maintenance on equipment. But there is no upward mobility there so he will soon hit a ceiling but it is good for now for him. He is under 30. The other two are younger and basically retail workers, min wage type jobs. Their outlook is not as good. They have no future education (academic or trade) goals so they are essentially stuck at HS diploma level type jobs, unless they take after the one brother. It is the drive to succeed that makes the difference. What I view as risk, my one son views as opportunity. If he spends 40k to make 80k, that is money well spent and he makes the difference and then the whole thing the next year. I don't think that way. I think, where would I get the 40k, and then how do I get the work to get the 80k? He is a wonder for sure. For instance, he decided he was gonna do snow plowing. The truck and rig cost right around 40k. He figured he could easily make 120k and had contracts already lined up. He has been doing that for a few years. Part of that is spreading salt when it goes under freezing. He makes a lot of money for little actual work, even here in Seattle area. He and his wife have two other businesses that bring in enough money to live very well on. mspart