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Last I heard he was at the team banquet and was doing fine. Give him a little space.

One thing is certain in life. - Taxes - Minnow doesn't have the balls to do that - Keep Will Smith's wife's name out your fukking mouth!

University of WA dropped Wrestling in 1979. I still feel shafted on that. mspart

Well, when democrats push gender affirming drugs and surgeries for minors, and grooming them to think this is a wonderful idea, that is certainly not leading with kindness, do you agree? That is what the issue was with DeSantis and the so called Dont say gay bill. Never did the bill say anything about gay. What it said was there will be no teaching of sex, sexuality, or gender in classes K-3. And that was the most horrible thing in the world to the D's. Why is that, I'm sure you are asking. Well, because that is called in other realms of thought, grooming. We are indoctrinating the kids to think they can change their gender and this by the state. This is not parents' call, strictly the State's call. Well now it isn't the State's call and how sad is that? Very sad from the Disney and D hubbub that this created. Since when are minors capable of making life long decisions? Since never. Yet, we tell them they can't drive, they can't drink, they can't own a house, they can't buy a gun, but by golly, they can take puberty blocking drugs that will affect them the rest of their lives and they can cut their breasts off and testicles and penis off and this will affect them the rest of their lives. Do you not see a problem here? That is why she said what she said. It is not rocket science unless you are fully into the idea that minors are fully intellectually able to make these kinds of decisions. If they can for that, then these same people should be pushing them to drive cars and buy guns at age 11. Of course no sane adult would do that, yet insane adults are clamoring for grooming kids in school to have them change their gender. One more thing, is that there is no changing one's gender. You are what you are. There is no changing that. You can cut off and plug up and extract what you will but that does not change your gender. Your choromosomes still tell the truth. If a minor wants to change their sex, they can make that decision when they are an adult, but preying on minors for this purpose is ghastly and evil. Just my $0.02. mspart

Having seen both I'll take Uetake. He could have won big all the time but his culture did not do that. He won and did not openly dominate the opponents - something he could have easily done most of the time. As Myron Roderick said: I never saw him tested". Remember the match when a ref called him for Stalling. He hurt the other wrestler - and did not even go all out or intend to hurt him. After competing he was a Grad Assistant would get very frustrated as no one on the team could even do his normal warm up exercises. He really was "that much better" than the competition. Cael was excellence on the mat. A few close matches, very few. One the stallfest over Damion Hahn. Cael did not like wrestling guys who would beat on him. Somthing more allowed in International Competition, and it showed. He was excellent, probably the greatest talent we had next to John Smith at the time. But, one match for all the marbles and I will still go with Yojo.

I believe he was. There were a few other tough wrestlers on that squad that transferred out and did well. Chael Sonnen actually started at BYU before he transferred to Oregon where he "All-Americaned". I also remember Rocky and Rangi Smart. I think Rocky transferred to Arizona State and did well. BYU wrestling archives are hard to come by, it seems the University did all they could to get rid of the program history..... BYU also used to have a very colorful announcer for their home duals, his commentary and introductions were something else.

No its the newer downtown area, plenty or parking garages & outdoor restaurants & bars, streetcar that now goes up north to Riverwalk-market and almost all the way south to Plaza, lots of additional options along streetcar route.

Wow. I thought Roselli was starting to get a little traction with the transfer portal. Slightly bad timing.

Good to know U of Wash was leading the charge. I went to BYU and after I got out Mark Schultz was leading the team and doing well. Then BYU dropped wrestling. I still haven't forgiven them. mspart

That is an interesting theory. Let's explore that for a minute. On the plus side, I am unbelievably thin skinned and more than willing to through any crap against the wall while ignoring the stuff that doesn't stick. On the minus side, how dare you?

Have they? NPR has always been a left of center broadcast outlet.

@scourge165 if you haven't already read it, try to find a copy of A Season On The Mat. It covers Gable's last year at Iowa so lots of Iowa guys that you and others have mentioned on this thread are in there. Good read.

They mean Minnow

I always assume Russians have infiltrated every government in the history of mankind ever since watching Jack Ryan. So technically I always knew. How did you know my name?

It pains me to post this, but this is what we are dealing with. This is just my estimate from pulling multiple sources together. It is not authoritative.

Come on bob...seriously...you are a smart guy...yet you spew misinformation left and right about Desantis..calling him a "dictator/supreme ruler". You are blatantly lying about him "killing education" and that "R's only want education for the rich". And even more so to say he is "afraid of Drag Queens" and " kids reading books so much that they want to ban them permanently." These are so false and have been proven over and over that they are, yet you and others like Plasi and Vak keep spewing out that rhetoric. I have asked questions like this so many times in other arguments and never get a response, show me where he is anti-gay...actual facts not some MSM site headline. Show me where he has ever "banned a book". Show me where he has ever made anti-drag queen comments. Show me where he has ever said or done anything to "kill education". The problem with conversations like this is people try to extrapolate out certain things about legislation and policy to meet a narrative that benefits them politically, or in some cases personally because they want all R's to be bad or all D's to be bad because that is what their side tells them to think. It is absolutely ridiculous. Desantis NEVER banned any books, he never passed any don't say gay legislation, he isn't killing education, etc., and to blame him for the property insurance debacle, because of hurricanes, is so ignorant I can't even believe I am mentioning it. And I say all this not knowing if I would even vote for him if he runs for president...just can't stand people spewing misinformation. I wonder how much better we would be if people actually left some of their emotions at the door and opened their mind to actual facts and reality.

Yeah, this and it's also kinda lazy to say "the fanbase" is complaining about X because you have a handful of people complaining. "The fanbase" save for a very small number of people don't complain about St. Louis. They seem pretty satisfied with the NCAAs behind held there. You're absolutely right...some complaints are warranted. Others aren't. There's a bit more nuance to it than seeing someone in a thread saying, "I don't like the cobblestone in St. Louis," and saying, "see, the fan base complains about everything. Does it? Or is it like 3 people out of tens of thousands?

I disagree with this premise. You can’t say this to justify a location. Some complaints are warranted. Others aren’t. Some are petty. Some complaints are major obstacles.

Of course Mcllravy would be great in today's Wrestling. I have no doubt about that. Same goes with all these guys. I don't know that he'd have the same level of success. I think you'd take a guy like Gerry Abas who was pretty clearly a superior technician and he'd most likely just be in better shape and hold onto a a match like the one Mcllravy had as a Freshmen. As I said, I got talked out of my position on Mcllravy a bit. I had him in the top 3-4 all time(again, starting in the "modern era when guys got to Wrestle for 4 years)...but an old coach/Wrestler made a persuasive argument that he wouldn't be able to just grind guys down and moved him down So I'm really not firm in where I put Mcllravy beyond great. Is he top 5, 10...top 15? He was great and he'd be great if he was coming up now. And it should be obvious why athletes from the ~80s weren't as advanced in terms of technique. So many of them started Wrestling in HS or maybe 8th grade. Lee Kemp started as a Soph in Ohio after getting cut from Basketball, was like 11-8 as a JR and then won two state titles and was in the NCAA finals as a Freshmen. So of course I think guys who were that physically gifted would have a lot of success today... If you're comparing guys and how dominant they were in their era vs how dominant the PSU guys are now, then it tilts the board back a little more even. I'd still probably lean PSU, but it'd be close. I don't think anyone can have too much confidence in these guesses though. Joe Williams vs David Taylor? Even using how they were vs their contemporaries, how do you envision that match going. If you're including FS accolades, I guess Taylor gets it, but again, Williams is a guy I have a ton of respect for. I was a kid went he was Wrestling and that guy looked like a comic book character. His waist looked like it was 28 inches, his chest about 48 and he just controlled guy. TJ Williams is right there as well. Those were ironically a couple guys from Iowa who DIDN'T seem like they pressed the pace as much as other Iowa greats. You're talking about ALL TIME greats in almost every weight class...and both sides have guys not included. Barry Davis 3X Champ, 160-some wins? Mark Ironside, Randy Lewis? He was a fluke injury from being 2/1/1/1. Carter Starocci could win 5 NCAA Titles and he's not on there and if he is, Ed Ruth who was 3/1/1/1 and about as dominant as you can be doing so isn't on the list for PSU. I can go down these rabbit holes watching hours of certain guys or different Wrestling. In fact, when I reached out and asked the aforementioned older Wrestler about some of these guys, he sent me a bunch of videos and I watched about a dozen Randy Lewis matches. I have massive respect for all of these guys.

scourge, I won't repeat everything you said in your very long and intense response, thanks by the way, it is good reading. But when I think of the old guys vs the new guys, I'm not thinking the techniques they had. I'm thinking about the qualities that made them champions. Do you think if McIlravy was coming up today, he would be no champion? With the mental toughness and desire for excellence, he would have figured it out just like he did a long time ago. Same with most of these older guys. Gable looks downright basic when he wrestled, but do you think a guy like him who HAD to win would have settled for anything less now as opposed to then? That is the kind of comparison I have in my mind when I do these games. I just feel that the guys back then, if they came around now, would still be incredible like they were then because they would have found a way like they did then. mspart

Arena - 9/10. I didnt show up for gourmet nachos or $16 Coors Lights in a fancy cup. I came for a seat to watch wrestling. They had the same seats everyone else does Town - 8/10. Tulsa sucks but the chicks are easy. If I were married, it would be 0/10 Entertainment - 10/10. Awesome, awesome tournament. Being able to go out and get local bimbos in minutes at Orphas or Japanese chicks at Jinyas was as good or better than watching Max Murin stall his way to 6th place. Fans - 6/10. The Iowa crowd wasnt as hardcore or boisterous as normal. I live in Raider Nation and Iowa fans usually out do them. Not this time. Kind of like the Romans when they knew the underdog was gonna get killed by the lion. I moved it from 4 to 6 because of the chubby Hawkeye scorekeeper that hit the hot tub and stayed over. She was vocal if you know what I mean. Hotel staff called the room and told us to quiet down. We didnt. Penn state fans were knowledgeable and nice. Im not a fan of the school or their wrestlers, but they made me feel at home. I gave up my seat so that the 157lb kid's brother could sit next to his family and it was cool seeing them root and cheer for him. Local Food - 2/10. I went from Portland to San Diego to Vegas. Tulsa sucks. Overall - 10/10. I didnt come for fancy steak houses like The Outback, Caviar, local theater, or a bustling night time downtown close to the arena. I came for The Landing Strip, to watch Iowa get their ass kicked, and chubby girls from the next door. Tulsa came through in spades. I was disappointed that Lee and Truax didnt hit their goal; I feel bad for them because they are tough and they work hard but like Brands says "you get what you earn". Both guys have made me a fan over the years. Huge fan of the Iowa scorekeepers as well as the the 2 girls at the Adams Apartments. NCAA's arent coming back to Tulsa but god dammit, I am.

because hes 10x better. Many modern day wrestlers who have never won a national championship would beat most of Iowa's best ever from the 80's early 90's

I should add that I am not bitter or resentful about what is happeneing. Clearly, coaches and athletes are looking to redefine the college wrestling grind: who they see, the length of the season, how they compete, etc... Heck, I just listened to David Taylor in a recent podcast discuss how he is exploring new ideas in his training and competition schedules. The writing is on the wall that those pushing to the highest levels of our sports want changes. For example, I think it makes great sense to move wrestling to one semester and, especially in a sport that requires intense weight management, away from Thanksgiving, Christmas, and the holidays. I would have loved to enjoy time back at home in December, and then start getting after it in mid January. I cannot imagne anyone who has been through such would disagree that.

Fargo and Super 32 are the big ones. Any others that college coaches attend or use for scouting (preferably folkstyle)? Do they go to NUWay Summer Nationals or any other NUWay events?

By the way Cracker Barrel sucks! LOL

Sorry,But you are, by saying this. If the People that have legitimate reasons, problems with the event being held in Tulsa , and are put into your “a fan base will never be satisfied with anything “ this justifies Tulsa is as good as any location to have the Championship.

That was when the NCAA should have implemented reviews. It wasn't until...what, 5-7 years later they did.

Victor Glover

I'm not justifying any location. I'm speaking from experience on how we as a fanbase will never be satisfied with anything.

https://intermatwrestle.com/articles/14613

Shrug.

oh how i despise cracker barrell... my hillbilly roots will not allow me to recognize what they call gravy as such...

And I'll give the edge to Cael because...I've seen him. For ME to give it to Uetake, it'd be coming from a place of ignorance and just looking at his accomplishments. I don't have Cael ranked over Uetake, I just don't have Uetake ranked. But I really do get and respect why others feel differently.

He was an Olympic champ a year before his first NCAA Title...so while you can't just hand out NCs, I think it's safe to say he would have won it. As for where he ranks all-time...we're really just guessing. 2X Olympic Champ, 3X undefeated Champ...the credentials speak for themselves. It's just like the Iowa vs PSU matchup. It's too difficult to compare Wrestlers from one era to another. Agreed. I don't quite have the same issue with guys who wrestle a more strategic match. It depends who it is. Marinelli or RBY? One is capable of attacking and wrestling "strategically" is a choice. One is just limited physically and he needs to try and sorta grind you down and wear you out. It's one of the things Cael CLEARLY does a good job at, having his Wrestlers attack without the fear of giving up points. That's a metal hurdle a lot of guys struggle to get over. But just again, I think you're absolutely right...there is no formula to come up with the best Wrestlers ever. Every 3X Champ isn't ahead of David Taylor. Every 4X Champ isn't ahead of every 3X Champ. Lee Kemp is ahead of...Logan Stieber in my opinion. He lost in the finals on a referees decision....by the way, lets bring that back...see how fun we can make shit next year! Just have refs picking who wins if the match is tied after 7 minutes! I want no criteria...I want to hear a ref say to Tom Brands upon asking why Real Woods lost on a referees decision, "because you're very mean to me." Seriously though, it's NEVER as simple as putting shit into a formula. BUT...it also makes it virtually impossible to really rank Wrestlers from before the ~80s. A lot of my opinions are informed by a couple guys who Wrestled in the 80s, who saw these Wrestlers, one who reffed and actually reffed a lot of Iowa. But I guess that's how it works in every sport, isn't it? If you actually know Football, you understand you can't compare QB stats from the 1970s to today. The game has just changed too much.

Not only was he pinned, I think he only got a 2 point nearfall and was in danger for 5 seconds ....that's my point.....water over the dam now.....definitely controversial....too bad there wasn't video review on that situation (not that they could have called a fall, but it could have changed it to a 3 pt. nearfall), as well as a couple of "phantom/fake news" takedowns.

I already cleared this up. Everything to my left is west.

What's going on at Northwestern? I thought Storniolo was respected and well-liked over there..

Come on, read between the lines. It was a promotional video from the Iowa Athletic Department to show the human side of a pair of fierce competitors and let their personalities shine through. Maybe also to blunt some drama around Spencer Lee earlier in the season, heh. People who only know Spencer from what they see on the mat don't know that he's not "all business" and is actually a regular, down to earth kid. Similarly, many might think of Caitlin as the hyper intense chippy b theyn see on the court, but we see from the video that she's funny, self-deprecating, and smart. Personally though, I wish Caitlin was team psychologist for ol' Tommy and Clarissa's kids. She competes with passion and puts up points like she was coached by Gable.

Pick any location - we will complain about it.

This review wont help you on the campaign trail

Folks still use printed brackets?

Are freestyle tournaments really worth souting for filling folkstyle college wrestling teams? The two styles are significantly different, aren't they?

I wasn’t very impressed with the field at Folkstyle nationals this year. Not a lot of ranked wrestlers there this year. It looks like a lot of great matches at Elite duals this year.

Folkstyle Nationals would have been one to look at the upcoming wrestlers. It was this weekend. NHSCA as well, but it also has passed.

Just came here to make sure someone mentioned Dake Taylor in the national championship. Thank you sir for your service.

Interesting. About 30 years ago when they cut the coaches to 3 full and 1 limited there were lawsuits then which led to the NCAA making the limited volunteer.

FRL said he was close with Colon and Colon is leaving…is he going anywhere else? Speaking of Colon, don’t think I had seen this before:

Monday was interviewed in the early rounds. He’s got 20 something committed and has been overwhelmed by how many are reaching out or want to help

Truax in the portal has Penn State written all over it. Smaller programs losing their guys to the big ten sucks. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk