Last Hoorah Team

[BloodRound]

10 minutes ago, FWwrestling said:

Is Nick Lee done competing now that he is coaching?  I would think that him or Mendez would have a great shot at 65.

I read somewhere that Lee is done.

[fishbane]

On 8/10/2024 at 9:14 PM, GrandOlm said:

37 is super old for Dake's weight class.  Or will he have regressed to crawling by then? 

Dake was somewhat old to be winning a title this year.  Since the breakup of the Soviet Union (1993-current) only 12 World/Olympic titles have been won in men's freestyle after the winners 33rd birthday.  Of those 12, one was stripped for doping violations and three were at non-olympic weights.

Next Olympics Retherford will be 33, Dake will be 37, and Snyder will be a few month short of his 33rd birthday.  Hard to bet that any of them will be closer to winning gold in 2028. 

Edited August 13 by fishbane

[The Kid]

2 hours ago, fishbane said:

Dake was somewhat old to be winning a title this year.  Since the breakup of the Soviet Union (1993-current) only 12 World/Olympic titles have been won in men's freestyle after the winners 33rd birthday.  Of those 12, one was stripped for doping violations and three were at non-olympic weights.

Next Olympics Retherford will be 33, Dake will be 37, and Snyder will be a few month short of his 33rd birthday.  Hard to bet that any of them will be closer to winning gold in 2028. 

Dake would be the best bet of the three.  He has no fear.  

[Scouts Honor]

is dake not being afraid why guys get to his legs so easy? 

[scribers]

Anyone else think Dake would have retired if he won Olympic gold? 

[Wrestleknownothing]

On 8/12/2024 at 9:22 PM, alliseeisgold said:

Carr doesn't dominate quite to the extent nolf and others before him did in college imo. 

Even zain. Steiber. Unprecedented run of 4 time champs recently and 3 timers. And look at them in the senior level. 

Our guys just don't jump levels at the senior level. Meanwhile just read kiyooka was like 8th at u23. We flatline or get worse. Other countries get better.

I feel the same way about Bruce Baumgartner, John Smith, and Jordan Burroughs.

[scourge165]

On 8/10/2024 at 11:31 PM, goheels1812 said:

Give me a full size Vito at 65 kg and 57/65 look great. 74 is a huge question mark at this stage. 86 kg one last ride for Valencia? He will be 31, but he was a singlet pull away from getting his shot at Taylor this cycle. 97 Brooks. 125 probably Parris but need some American guys to push him here. I still think Parris could medal at heavy, but he has to keep improving. 

I cannot see how people have Brooks at 97KG!

The dude doesn't lift! LOL...and I get that's a running joke, but...does he have the frame to go from ~189 to  ~212 and compete? There's just too much length there. 

[MPhillips]

3 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

There's just too much length there.

and Kyle Snyder...

[scourge165]

On 8/12/2024 at 5:10 PM, alliseeisgold said:

If people think it's bad now....just wait. At least this crop has the talent. 

Don't even think good coaching can help the next crop. No Taylor's dakes Burroughs cox Snyder's walking through that door

The dropoff is real. 

Don't even see any Metcalf walking through that door. 

Messenbrink isn't even close to being it. That's like saying Micah Jordan would win a medal. 

You am for new levels of stoopid and you consistently one up yourself.

We have a number of age level world champs, Messenbrink just lost to one in the finals as a Freshmen on riding time, but sure...juuust like Jordan. 

 

[scourge165]

7 minutes ago, MPhillips said:

and Kyle Snyder...

Well...the idea being he's going up to HWT or he'd be done, but...yes, also that.

Just assume Snyder is gone. Does Brooks fare better at 86 or vs Taz/Sad at 97KG?

What would be the motivation for him? Starocci? So they can both

[alliseeisgold]

10 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

You am for new levels of stoopid and you consistently one up yourself.

We have a number of age level world champs, Messenbrink just lost to one in the finals as a Freshmen on riding time, but sure...juuust like Jordan. 

 

Messenbrink was handled by carr. Wasn't close. If you look at who controlled the match it's obvious.  Embarrassed at world team trials the match vs JB was the worst performance at trials 

He's just overrated and I said it before NCAAs and I think was proven correct

Micah would of excelled at free. Great great leg attacker. Both just get big brothered vs the elites. 

[alliseeisgold]

I promise you anyone at nittany lion would say messenbrink isn't even in nolfs class who have seen them wrestle. 

You can bookmark this - messenbrink won't be shit at the senior level. 

Again...tons of cadets and juniors. Not translating. 

Edited August 14 by alliseeisgold

[wrestle87]

17 minutes ago, alliseeisgold said:

I promise you anyone at nittany lion would say messenbrink isn't even in nolfs class who have seen them wrestle. 

You can bookmark this - messenbrink won't be shit at the senior level. 

Again...tons of cadets and juniors. Not translating. 

I will take that bet trading places style for one imaginary dollar. 

Messenbrink basically does what JB did early in his career, technically flawed gas pedal in your face in a way guys haven’t seen before, creating action to stay even in the first and pull away in the second period with his lungs.  I think he will make a team and get some sneaky medals, primarily bc his mindset is so much better.  He doesn’t care, he just goes.  Big match, small match, not respecting your opponents beyond just them being another wrestler is a BIG mindset thing that 99.99% of guys struggle with.  Messenbrink doesn’t which is huge. 

This is also the era of the lanky wrestler, tazhudinov started it off, the gangle is coming back to form.

Edited August 14 by wrestle87

[ionel]

2 minutes ago, wrestle87 said:

I will take that bet trading places style for one imaginary dollar. 

Messenbrink basically does what JB did early in his career, technically flawed gas pedal in your face in a way guys haven’t seen before, creating action to stay even in the first and pull away in the second period with his lungs.  I think he will make a team and get some sneaky medals, primarily bc his mindset is so much better.  He doesn’t care, he just goes.  Big match, small match, not respecting your opponents beyond just them being another wrestler is a BIG mindset thing that 99.99% of guys struggle with.  Messenbrink doesn’t which is huge. 

This is also the era of the lanky wrestler, tazhudinov started it off, the gangle is coming back to form.

I'll take that bet and say he never medals and never even makes the team. 

[scourge165]

5 minutes ago, alliseeisgold said:

Messenbrink was handled by carr. Wasn't close. If you look at who controlled the match it's obvious.  Embarrassed at world team trials the match vs JB was the worst performance at trials 

He's just overrated and I said it before NCAAs and I think was proven correct

Micah would of excelled at free. Great great leg attacker. Both just get big brothered vs the elites. 

You should change your name to alliseeiswhatiwantosee.

9-8 match won on riding time between a RS Freshmen and a 6th year Sr who'd gone 1,3,2,1 in his 4 years....BOTH of whom won Gold Medals at their age levels and Carr, who was gassing and pushed around the mat and won the match in the 2nd period when he just hung onto the leg as riding time ran up...that "wasn't close?"

 

You're not a serious person. On top of all that, Messenbrink should have been a '57, not a '65, but he still took 2nd in the toughest weight class in the tournament. 

 

What is your angle? I'm still trying to figure that out. That without Jordan Burroughs, the US Mens team will never be great again after an Olympic Cycle we were probably ~3 exchanges away from 3 Golds? Which doesn't change the final results, we didn't get those three TDs, it's just...your takes are so ridiculous, what is your point?

[scourge165]

32 minutes ago, alliseeisgold said:

I promise you anyone at nittany lion would say messenbrink isn't even in nolfs class who have seen them wrestle. 

You can bookmark this - messenbrink won't be shit at the senior level. 

Again...tons of cadets and juniors. Not translating. 

Even if that's true...and I doubt it is, JB wasn't competing for a NC his Soph year, much less for the Olympic/World team. 

 

I can't project 5 years out. Maybe O'Toole takes the weight and holds it for ~10 years. Maybe it's Haines, maybe it's...PJ Duke? Maybe it's Carr. I don't know, I don't care, saying there's not talent coming up to replace what's there is just so insanely stupid. 

 

[de4856]

By 2028, I think Spencer, Zain, Dake, and SnyderMan will all have moved on. Maybe Parris, and Brooks will still be around but that four years from now so I wouldn’t be surprised if they had moved on as well. I believe that the team will consist of our young college studs or maybe some of these phenoms that are still in High School. 
As far as Gable, or Yianni coming back, and being the guy in 2028, I think that is a bit of a stretch. 

[CHROMEBIRD]

1 hour ago, de4856 said:

By 2028, I think Spencer, Zain, Dake, and SnyderMan will all have moved on. Maybe Parris, and Brooks will still be around but that four years from now so I wouldn’t be surprised if they had moved on as well. I believe that the team will consist of our young college studs or maybe some of these phenoms that are still in High School. 
As far as Gable, or Yianni coming back, and being the guy in 2028, I think that is a bit of a stretch. 

All reasonable predictions. The location for 2028 will be a big X factor in everyone's decisions, though. A lot of those older guys who would otherwise hang it up will be tempted to give it one last go and compete for a medal on home soil in front of a home crowd in LA. 

[cowcards]

Some of you people are going to hate seeing what Burroughs, Dake, and Taylor’s pre-senior world success looked like if you don’t think big gains and success can be had that’s not a 15x world champ by the time their 20. 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

8 hours ago, scourge165 said:

Well...the idea being he's going up to HWT or he'd be done, but...yes, also that.

Just assume Snyder is gone. Does Brooks fare better at 86 or vs Taz/Sad at 97KG?

What would be the motivation for him? Starocci? So they can both

Well, Brooks dad tweeted that he will never make 86 again. Too much of a cut. 
 

So it looks like 92, and if he ever wants to be in the Olympics (and the weights don’t change)  it’ll have to be 97. 

[Wrestleknownothing]

8 hours ago, alliseeisgold said:

Messenbrink was handled by carr. Wasn't close. If you look at who controlled the match it's obvious.  Embarrassed at world team trials the match vs JB was the worst performance at trials 

He's just overrated and I said it before NCAAs and I think was proven correct

Micah would of excelled at free. Great great leg attacker. Both just get big brothered vs the elites. 

You have a future in politics

[mspart]

I'm wondering about Snyder.   In his Bronze medal match, he hand fought like a crazy man and bled like one too.   But I don't remember a lot of shots taken.   He reached for legs and backed off.   I never really saw a concerted offensive attack.   Maybe I just don't remember well.   But that is not the Snyder of yesteryear.   When he shoots on Taz, he gets crushed.   Happened again in the semi's.   I think that affected him.   It wouldn't surprise me if he went looking for something else to do. 

Lee - He can keep going if his knees are good.   Or he may choose to coach or something else.  He is committed to HWC for a few years.

Retherford - I think he is done.   Too bad about that, I hope he is ok. 

Dake - he came alive in the Bronze medal match late.   If he can keep that going, he could last another cycle, but he is getting long in the tooth.   But I think he has it physically to give.  

Brooks - He may be our guy for awhile but not sure.   He medalled which is not nothing.   So he was successful.   He's young enough but I think he is more vulnerable.   I don't think his matches with Taylor are indicative of him, but indicative that Taylor was done as he just didn't look motivated. 

Parris - He has done well just not this time.   It seems to me this is his weight for awhile.  

My question marks are really Dake and Snyder.   They ahve been playing this game for a long time and may decide the pasture is greener over there. 

mspart

[1032004]

19 hours ago, scourge165 said:

I cannot see how people have Brooks at 97KG!

The dude doesn't lift! LOL...and I get that's a running joke, but...does he have the frame to go from ~189 to  ~212 and compete? There's just too much length there. 

His dad was the one that said it

[scourge165]

On 8/14/2024 at 12:42 AM, CHROMEBIRD said:

All reasonable predictions. The location for 2028 will be a big X factor in everyone's decisions, though. A lot of those older guys who would otherwise hang it up will be tempted to give it one last go and compete for a medal on home soil in front of a home crowd in LA. 

I can't see Lee hanging it up THIS close to his lifetime goal. 4 more years, he's still in his prime, I think he was the best 57KG in this weight. It'll be in LA...can't see him quitting.

Snyder...can't see him hanging it up at his age either. Don't see him winning(would be a great story). 

Dake...he may, but I think he'll be passed up within the US by that time.

Zain, same. Brooks will be my favorite to win(or rather he is). Parris...he's going to have to make some jumps. I wonder is Taz ends up at HWT or stays at 97KG. I think he may be better suited at HWT, though that's not US-related(directly). 

Snyder probably wins Bronze if that match isn't stopped so many times for blood, but guys have clearly caught him. He can't just wear you down any longer. 

I just don't get why people are so...certain that we're not going to have guys jump levels as we have with the current group. Koy Hopke or Ben Keuter or...hell, that kid from Iowa may be ready to win an Olympic Gold in LA, Deshaun Ross. He is...incredible. That's a bit premature, but the point is, it's hard to guess who's going to take that NEXT big step. Why not Keegan O'Toole? 

We're(or some people) are acting like an era is over. I don't see it. The JB Era ended, the DT era ended...US Wrestling is still in VERY good shape. I could see Luke Lillendahl or Vito or Yianni at 65 next time...it's such a wide range of potential outcomes. 

When Howe looked like he was going to be the future both at 165 when he probably should have won as a Freshmen, who would have guessed a few years later, he's losing to Dake and Taylor...and they can't get past JB. Who'd have guessed that DT would have gone 189, dominated for 6 years, Dake would win a couple of WC at 79, then beat JB, then take a couple of bronzes after winning a couple of WCs.

 

Nobody knows if it'll be Jax Forrest, Beau Bassett, PJ Duke, Greg Kerkvliet, Trumble, there is just SO much talent. Sinclair...I truly believe that kid could win an Olympic Title. Not ideal weight for him, but he goes 86 KG. 

Gabe Arnold...I'm gonna stop naming guys not, there's just too much talent to think the sky is falling(And I'm not saying YOU'RE saying that @CHROMEBIRDbut it feels like that's kinda the overarching feeling).

 

 

[lu1979]

4 hours ago, scourge165 said:

I can't see Lee hanging it up THIS close to his lifetime goal. 4 more years, he's still in his prime, I think he was the best 57KG in this weight. It'll be in LA...can't see him quitting.

Snyder...can't see him hanging it up at his age either. Don't see him winning(would be a great story). 

Dake...he may, but I think he'll be passed up within the US by that time.

Zain, same. Brooks will be my favorite to win(or rather he is). Parris...he's going to have to make some jumps. I wonder is Taz ends up at HWT or stays at 97KG. I think he may be better suited at HWT, though that's not US-related(directly). 

Snyder probably wins Bronze if that match isn't stopped so many times for blood, but guys have clearly caught him. He can't just wear you down any longer. 

I just don't get why people are so...certain that we're not going to have guys jump levels as we have with the current group. Koy Hopke or Ben Keuter or...hell, that kid from Iowa may be ready to win an Olympic Gold in LA, Deshaun Ross. He is...incredible. That's a bit premature, but the point is, it's hard to guess who's going to take that NEXT big step. Why not Keegan O'Toole? 

We're(or some people) are acting like an era is over. I don't see it. The JB Era ended, the DT era ended...US Wrestling is still in VERY good shape. I could see Luke Lillendahl or Vito or Yianni at 65 next time...it's such a wide range of potential outcomes. 

When Howe looked like he was going to be the future both at 165 when he probably should have won as a Freshmen, who would have guessed a few years later, he's losing to Dake and Taylor...and they can't get past JB. Who'd have guessed that DT would have gone 189, dominated for 6 years, Dake would win a couple of WC at 79, then beat JB, then take a couple of bronzes after winning a couple of WCs.

 

Nobody knows if it'll be Jax Forrest, Beau Bassett, PJ Duke, Greg Kerkvliet, Trumble, there is just SO much talent. Sinclair...I truly believe that kid could win an Olympic Title. Not ideal weight for him, but he goes 86 KG. 

Gabe Arnold...I'm gonna stop naming guys not, there's just too much talent to think the sky is falling(And I'm not saying YOU'RE saying that @CHROMEBIRDbut it feels like that's kinda the overarching feeling).

 

 

Good post scourge - you are absolutely right - it is impossible to say at this point who will be sitting at the top of the heap in the US in 2028 - We do have a lot of guys who could get themselves to a Gold medal level in the next four years - Of course the same could be said for the rest of the wrestling world - I for one will enjoy watching what develops over the next few years.