Spencer Lee has entered the US Open

[Plasmodium]

Starocci's knee looked sore.  He limped a little and stood up gingerly.   Sure it was much more painful after Ringer beat him decisively.   Speaking of which - Glad to see Ringer back as he has his own health problems.

[Dogbone]

I think most people know Spencer is not 100%.   But he is healthy enough to wrestle, at some level, in the NCAAs and US Open.   There is some hurdle, physical or mental, that is preventing him from wrestling back at NCAA or even trying to give it a go vs. Suriano. 

The questions now are will he ever get past that hurdle.

 

[Pinnacle]

1 hour ago, Plasmodium said:

Starocci's knee looked sore.  He limped a little and stood up gingerly.   Sure it was much more painful after Ringer beat him decisively.   Speaking of which - Glad to see Ringer back as he has his own health problems.

He laid on the mat holding his knee for a solid 1:30 after the Ringer double took him down. Trainers had to attend to him. Yes, he finished the two periods but it seems between his knee wrap and his actions in that match that he had an injury and it was tweaked in the match. 

Spencer just isn't who he once was, but he can go and just chooses not to given certain circumstances. 

[headshuck]

I wonder what the guys Spencer was willing to wrestle think of the whole situation. Almost as insulting as getting picked last in grade school kickball.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

11 minutes ago, headshuck said:

I wonder what the guys Spencer was willing to wrestle think of the whole situation. Almost as insulting as getting picked last in grade school kickball.

I bet Caleb Smith feels pretty good.

[Eagle26]

He laid on the mat holding his knee for a solid 1:30 after the Ringer double took him down. Trainers had to attend to him. Yes, he finished the two periods but it seems between his knee wrap and his actions in that match that he had an injury and it was tweaked in the match. 
Spencer just isn't who he once was, but he can go and just chooses not to given certain circumstances. 

If he was able to finish the match against Ringer, how was he not able to wrestle back the next day? He’s clearly hurt (Like Lee and many others) but was clearly able to wrestle when he really wanted to. Exact same situation as Spencer. I’m not denying he was injured and I don’t blame him for MFF out, but it’s crazy that he gets a free pass and Lee gets crucified.

[CHROMEBIRD]

1 hour ago, Eagle26 said:

If he was able to finish the match against Ringer, how was he not able to wrestle back the next day? He’s clearly hurt (Like Lee and many others) but was clearly able to wrestle when he really wanted to. Exact same situation as Spencer. I’m not denying he was injured and I don’t blame him for MFF out, but it’s crazy that he gets a free pass and Lee gets crucified.

What would be the point? Winning consi's wouldn't get either guy into WTT/FinalX this year.

[Eagle26]

2 minutes ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

What would be the point? Winning consi's wouldn't get either guy into WTT/FinalX this year.

I agree. Wrestling the consis at NCAAs wouldn’t have gotten Lee into WTT/Final X either (in fact it would greatly decrease his chances), and it wouldn’t have gotten him another chance at his goal of 4 NCAA titles. So what would be the point, and why all the criticism??

[Wrestleknownothing]

42 minutes ago, Eagle26 said:

I agree. Wrestling the consis at NCAAs wouldn’t have gotten Lee into WTT/Final X either (in fact it would greatly decrease his chances), and it wouldn’t have gotten him another chance at his goal of 4 NCAA titles. So what would be the point, and why all the criticism??

You are now comparing Spencer Lee's NCAA default to Carter Starocci's US Open default when you know they are categorically different.

At the NCAA's you are part of a team earning team points, not just individual accolades. The opposite is true at the US Open. At the US Open there is one winner and a bunch of who cares. Many on this board's predecessor even went so far as to claim wrestlers (only certain ones) do not try on the backside of these types of qualifying tournaments.

You are also ignoring that Spencer Lee did not drop out of the consolation bracket at the US Open.

[Eagle26]

19 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

You are now comparing Spencer Lee's NCAA default to Carter Starocci's US Open default when you know they are categorically different.

At the NCAA's you are part of a team earning team points, not just individual accolades. The opposite is true at the US Open. At the US Open there is one winner and a bunch of who cares. Many on this board's predecessor even went so far as to claim wrestlers (only certain ones) do not try on the backside of these types of qualifying tournaments.

You are also ignoring that Spencer Lee did not drop out of the consolation bracket at the US Open.

I agree in most instances there’s a huge difference in NCAA tournament and US open (which is why we see much more MFF at the open). But in Lee’s specific case there’s really no difference. Iowa had approximately 0% chance of winning the tournament at that point. Lee missed his goal of 4x champ and the difference between 3rd and 6th meant nothing to him. And his next goal was to make the world team and he needed to recover and not risk further injury when the Open was coming up that soon. In his situation, I can’t understand why it’s so unforgivable to MFF.

Also, the fact that he MFF in the championship bracket at the Open proves that he is truly injured. No way he does that if he isn’t hurt severely 

[mspart]

2 hours ago, Eagle26 said:

I agree in most instances there’s a huge difference in NCAA tournament and US open (which is why we see much more MFF at the open). But in Lee’s specific case there’s really no difference. Iowa had approximately 0% chance of winning the tournament at that point. Lee missed his goal of 4x champ and the difference between 3rd and 6th meant nothing to him. And his next goal was to make the world team and he needed to recover and not risk further injury when the Open was coming up that soon. In his situation, I can’t understand why it’s so unforgivable to MFF.

Also, the fact that he MFF in the championship bracket at the Open proves that he is truly injured. No way he does that if he isn’t hurt severely 

I think this is correct.   It is just too bad he wasn't able to continue, a lot of people were looking for him to be successful.  Maybe he was successful based on his goals and objectives.  Again, he now has a full year to recover and gain strength in his knees and psyche.  Best of luck to him.

mspart 

[1032004]

21 hours ago, Eagle26 said:

If he was able to finish the match against Ringer, how was he not able to wrestle back the next day? He’s clearly hurt (Like Lee and many others) but was clearly able to wrestle when he really wanted to. Exact same situation as Spencer. I’m not denying he was injured and I don’t blame him for MFF out, but it’s crazy that he gets a free pass and Lee gets crucified.

Did Flo try to ask his dad?

[scourge165]

On 5/1/2023 at 3:09 PM, Eagle26 said:

I agree. Wrestling the consis at NCAAs wouldn’t have gotten Lee into WTT/Final X either (in fact it would greatly decrease his chances), and it wouldn’t have gotten him another chance at his goal of 4 NCAA titles. So what would be the point, and why all the criticism??

The D1s are MUCH more discussed than the Open and there's a difference between a MFF on the frontside vs the backside...

People talking about the all-time greats, they talk about College placements and then World/Olympic Medals. Not "he went 5/1/1/1 at the Open."

It's really not even comparable. Starocci.

And it's the second time in a few months. 

If Starocci losses next year in the Semi's in KC and doesn't Wrestleback...and NOBODY has anything to say, then come back and I'll agree that it's similar and unfair.

[AgaveMaria]

On 5/1/2023 at 3:09 PM, Eagle26 said:

I agree. Wrestling the consis at NCAAs wouldn’t have gotten Lee into WTT/Final X either (in fact it would greatly decrease his chances), and it wouldn’t have gotten him another chance at his goal of 4 NCAA titles. So what would be the point, and why all the criticism??

Because Spencer is getting the reputation as a Quitter.

"If I can't win it all I'll take my marbles and go home"!

Then his daddy makes HalfVast excuses for him.

In his mind he is becoming a loser no matter the reason in reality.

[mspart]

Well, I hope that is not the case and he comes out 100% next year. 

mspart

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

16 hours ago, AgaveMaria said:

Because Spencer is getting the reputation as a Quitter.

"If I can't win it all I'll take my marbles and go home"!

Then his daddy makes HalfVast excuses for him.

In his mind he is becoming a loser no matter the reason in reality.

Half Vast? 

Did he take your marbles?

Edited May 5, 2023 by Interviewed_at_Weehawken

[VakAttack]

Look.  I was there.  There's no denying that Spencer looked lame having his dad give an interview and pulling out before the Suriano match.  I do believe he is hurt.  But if you show up, and then forfeit before your first high level match, it looks terrible.  Either don't go, or go and wrestle until you lose, and then forfeit out afterward like everybody else.

[Le duke]

Look.  I was there.  There's no denying that Spencer looked lame having his dad give an interview and pulling out before the Suriano match.  I do believe he is hurt.  But if you show up, and then forfeit before your first high level match, it looks terrible.  Either don't go, or go and wrestle until you lose, and then forfeit out afterward like everybody else.

And if you forfeit, give an explanation yourself or don’t give one at all. But don’t have your dad do it.

You’re a grown ass man.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[de4856]

Well I was at the U.S. Open and saw Spencer’s matches. He did not look like his knees were hurting him, or that there was something else that might be he limiting his mobility. He looked super slick until the second period of his third match. Now I’m not a doctor or anything like that, and of course what I am about to say is pure speculation, but I think that Spencer’s condition has something to do with his blood not getting O2 or something causing his muscles not to get the energy they need. It seems to me that he just falls into an energy deficit when his initial level runs out. 
Now I know that some people have floated the idea that because Spencer’s knees have been all tore up that he can’t train like he needs to, and yes that could very well be the case. But whatever this is, I feel that Spencer is an amazing talent and I hope that he can get past whatever this is and we get to see him wrestle again. 

[CHROMEBIRD]

43 minutes ago, de4856 said:

Well I was at the U.S. Open and saw Spencer’s matches. He did not look like his knees were hurting him, or that there was something else that might be he limiting his mobility. He looked super slick until the second period of his third match. Now I’m not a doctor or anything like that, and of course what I am about to say is pure speculation, but I think that Spencer’s condition has something to do with his blood not getting O2 or something causing his muscles not to get the energy they need. It seems to me that he just falls into an energy deficit when his initial level runs out. 
Now I know that some people have floated the idea that because Spencer’s knees have been all tore up that he can’t train like he needs to, and yes that could very well be the case. But whatever this is, I feel that Spencer is an amazing talent and I hope that he can get past whatever this is and we get to see him wrestle again. 

Someone should take Spencer to a swimming pool

[VakAttack]

52 minutes ago, de4856 said:

Well I was at the U.S. Open and saw Spencer’s matches. He did not look like his knees were hurting him, or that there was something else that might be he limiting his mobility. He looked super slick until the second period of his third match. Now I’m not a doctor or anything like that, and of course what I am about to say is pure speculation, but I think that Spencer’s condition has something to do with his blood not getting O2 or something causing his muscles not to get the energy they need. It seems to me that he just falls into an energy deficit when his initial level runs out. 
Now I know that some people have floated the idea that because Spencer’s knees have been all tore up that he can’t train like he needs to, and yes that could very well be the case. But whatever this is, I feel that Spencer is an amazing talent and I hope that he can get past whatever this is and we get to see him wrestle again. 

I disagree with the assertion that he looked super slick.  He looked off from the jump, he was just so far above his opponents level-wise it didn't matter.  But there was no indication of any new injury, and if he was healthy enough to go out there for those first three matches, there is no indication he was any less healthy so as he could not wrestle against Suriano...and as mentioned, having your dad give the message...it was lame.

[scourge165]

On 5/5/2023 at 12:54 PM, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Half Vast? 

Did he take your marbles?

I thought that was a kinda clever way of saying half-assed without using naughty words!

[scourge165]

On 5/5/2023 at 2:53 PM, VakAttack said:

I disagree with the assertion that he looked super slick.  He looked off from the jump, he was just so far above his opponents level-wise it didn't matter.  But there was no indication of any new injury, and if he was healthy enough to go out there for those first three matches, there is no indication he was any less healthy so as he could not wrestle against Suriano...and as mentioned, having your dad give the message...it was lame.

Wrestling is a sport that's SO mental. 

On top of that, he's so CLEARLY not in shape to go with a guy like Suriano for 6 minutes...I get it. Give him some time NOW that his knees are recovered, let him get that gas tank back up, get his cryo therapy in, all that good stuff...and THEN lets just see what he's got.

 

We're not going to know where Lee is until that happens. And neither will he. I do think he's at the point now where people are underestimating him or making extra excuses for his knees. We know what he went through. Two ACLs is BRUTAL...or I imagine, when I had mine, it was one, then the other and I could still do a LOT of shit to keep my other leg strong. TBH, I think it helped me the first time. I'd do stairs hopping and felt I came back must stronger.

 

Bot BOTH at once? You're just sitting...waiting. Maybe you can do the hand bicycle thing or you can swim, the bike and use just arms. IDK, none of those would I have been able to do regularly to maintain my Cardio, though some can.

 

ANYWAY---He's physically healed. Now he's got to get physically stronger.

And as long as Vito doesn't go down to 57KG, I think he's got as good a chance as any to make the team NEXT year if he just works on his gas tank.

[CHROMEBIRD]

18 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

Wrestling is a sport that's SO mental. 

On top of that, he's so CLEARLY not in shape to go with a guy like Suriano for 6 minutes...I get it. Give him some time NOW that his knees are recovered, let him get that gas tank back up, get his cryo therapy in, all that good stuff...and THEN lets just see what he's got.

 

We're not going to know where Lee is until that happens. And neither will he. I do think he's at the point now where people are underestimating him or making extra excuses for his knees. We know what he went through. Two ACLs is BRUTAL...or I imagine, when I had mine, it was one, then the other and I could still do a LOT of shit to keep my other leg strong. TBH, I think it helped me the first time. I'd do stairs hopping and felt I came back must stronger.

 

Bot BOTH at once? You're just sitting...waiting. Maybe you can do the hand bicycle thing or you can swim, the bike and use just arms. IDK, none of those would I have been able to do regularly to maintain my Cardio, though some can.

 

ANYWAY---He's physically healed. Now he's got to get physically stronger.

And as long as Vito doesn't go down to 57KG, I think he's got as good a chance as any to make the team NEXT year if he just works on his gas tank.

What kind of odds do you give a Spencer Lee run at next year's Olympic team? I'd like to see it happen but think it'll too steep of a climb. Also I'm not sure he'll actually be 100% physically and mentally a year from now. 2028 might be more realistic with some World hardware along the way. I expect 57kg to clear out a bit over the next cycle (Gilman may retire or move up?) and Spencer will have some serious man strength over the younger Uxx guys coming up.

[scourge165]

4 minutes ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

What kind of odds do you give a Spencer Lee run at next year's Olympic team? I'd like to see it happen but think it'll too steep of a climb. Also I'm not sure he'll actually be 100% physically and mentally a year from now. 2028 might be more realistic with some World hardware along the way. I expect 57kg to clear out a bit over the next cycle (Gilman may retire or move up?) and Spencer will have some serious man strength over the younger Uxx guys coming up.

Everything I've said(in case it's not obvious) comes from just watching him from afar, so I don't know. 

I'm ASSUMING he's healthy because...he should be by now. Maybe he needs a clean-up. That's hardly rare after partially tearing it, then partially tearing it and rehabbing it, building the muscles around it and then finally having reconstructive surgery on both, but with the assumption he's fully healthy, I think he's got a very good chance.

But I really hope he can get back into Wrestling shape. It's actually kinda wild what he HAS accomplished when you consider he's really only got 2-3 minutes worth full Wrestling...and he still was in the Semi's and should have won and then MFFed out of the Semis at the open.