scourge165

Jesus Christ dude...he's a smaller HWT. He's ONE example of a guy I cited who would have benefited from a 220 weight. You used his weight at the B1Gs last year. I pointed out that he had to go on a 12,000-calorie-a-day diet to be able to get up to 255 and it was bigger than he'd EVER been in College by far. That's it. I'm also not sure why we're fixated on Hilger, but if he got down to 215 from NOT training, you don't think that'd probably have been a better weight for him than getting a belly and gaining 40 pounds? Also, "trying to cite one example." How many examples do I need that he had to GOURGE himself to the point of him saying he'd RATHER cut weight than have to eat that much again so he could be a bigger HWT? Is that something where you expect 3-4 examples for a single Wrestler?

RIGHT...but the PREVIOUS five years he wrestled in College, he was about 215-220. He's NOT built like Parris or Kerkvliet. I KNOW you get this. Hence the 12000 calorie-a-day diet that made him a LOT fatter. So...now, back to the original point, he's ONE of MANY guys who'd have benefited from having a weight class between '97 and HWT.

I didn't really take either as being upset that they're players are getting paid. I WOULD say I thought Rhule was just sending a message and Fleck was...making excuses for Minnesota players leaving, but with these diehard Fleck fans, I don't want to anger anyone.

Dude...what's your problem? I've never encountered you before. My issue with Fleck isn't this particular statement, it's his general, overall act, but if you're a huge PJ Fleck fan, I promise I won't say another word about him again! LOL...I didn't know that'd be an issue. But that post upset you enough to get two straight replies? One about me and then you came back with this? And if you don't like Rhule, I don't care. I don't see the same act out of him and he had success, but I'm really not all that invested in any of this shit dude.

The prize pool is 40 million? Can I get some of that for actually watching a couple of those games with those ridiculous floors that made it difficult to focus on the games?

Yeah, AFTER he spent a year on a 12,000 a day calorie diet. He bulked up his Sr year because he wasn't big enough earlier in his career. He had a big gut that he didn't have his first several years. He went from ~215 to 265 and then I guess settled in at 255. But this is the point. Too big to cut to '97, small for HWT. https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/uw/2023/04/07/wisconsin-wrestler-trent-hillger-earns-fourth-all-american-honor/70073306007/

Yeah, Fleck is an idiot. I've never taken anything he's said seriously. He's the coach that makes everything about him. I don't know what to believe when he talks. That wasn't about just QBs...which is what I thought the original post was about, but maybe I was wrong. Fleck just sounds like he's making excuses about why guys are leaving(that comment was about their Freshmen RB getting offers from other teams already). Rhule made the comment about QBs much more recently. Either way, they're getting paid in the transfer portal.

That was Rhule from Nebraska I believe. He said “Make no mistake: a good quarterback in the portal costs $1 million to $1.5 million to $2 million right now." So...it just seemed like a message to the boosters.

I don't think O'Toole's problem was Carr was just physically too strong, Carr just wrestled very smart and finished cleanly in the first two and then in the Finals, O'Toole was able to wrestle his style and forced Carr to attack a bit more which suits his style. It's unlikely that anyone is going to beat either. Maybe this is why nobody actually named someone. Obviously it's easier to take the overwhelming favorites at their weights vs guys bumping up to Wrestle them, but...it's about who is the MOST likely. Trumble is why I wouldn't mind seeing a 220 in College. There are a few guys I can think of who cut too much OR are lighter HWTs. Guys like Davidson or Hilger just from the B1G. Bastida would be a stud there. Feldman from OSU is a smaller HWT, right? Similar to Snyder. 97KG is probably closer to a natural weight for Trumble. I could easily see him moving up to HWT and weighing ~240 if he wanted. He has the frame for it.

Yeah, they've won 6 titles in 6 tournaments for a reason. Rocky Elam fits the bill a bit more, but he doesn't move as well as Trumble IMO and I don't think Buchanan is nearly as big or long. Again, Trumble is 6'4 and looks like a HWT already. It looks like he's already cutting pretty good to make '97. Brooks just finishes so cleanly, I don't think anyone can(same with whoever replied by telling me O'Toole would lose to Starocci). But just throwing out the most likely upsets. Hidlay could pull it off and I'm not counting Ferrari yet. If I don't know if he's going to Wrestle yet(unless something has come out). But I think Brooks will end up beating HIdlay pretty soundly. I just like Trumble and think if he could slow down Brooks, particularly if Brooks didn't finish a shot cleanly, that'd make things interesting.

By "Good old days," does today qualify?

Throw out a suggestion. It's not that easy to bump up and knock off 3X NCs. I don't think Carr could do it...and he's an incredible Wrestler. O'Toole I think MIGHT have a shot due to his style of Wrestling. I think that'd be a match Starocci would be very cautious in and win a close, lower-scoring match(unless O'Toole forced the issue I guess). At 197, I think it's possible a guy like Trumble can beat Brooks....if he were Wrestling this year. I wouldn't bet on it, but I've been waiting for him to break out the last couple years. He's so big for a '97, the length, big legs and moves well. But, other than him...I don't see a Schultz out there. Then you factor in that this year is an Olympic year and...what's the point to move up to '74 of '97 just to have to cut back down to ~163 and ~186?

No. That was 100% the right call that year. That was a "point of emphasis," you had to get your head out. It'd be a clear TD today(or I think even just the following year) but that was the right call. I agree with the larger point. If Cary Kolat or Alan Fried(or a dozen others) were working out with the NLWC like a Beau Bassett is in HS and had more exposure, they could have won 4(Kolat damn near did). But the Oliver and Stieber one is just wrongly blamed on the refs. The refs made it clear to the coaches that year THAT exact position would not be a TD unless you got your head out.

I think that's unlikely...I picked Haines to win it as a true freshman a year before he lost in the finals, but I think at this point there's a gap between he and Messenbrink. I think MM is a clear contender at 165. His pace and his attacks...I think he's the perfect fit between old-school Iowa, and modern PSU and I think he could certainly knock off one of the top 2. I wouldn't bet on MM, I think 3rd is more likely, but I don't think you can write him off. But I would write off Angelo in this year's 165LB weight. Which is also fine as he's not Wrestling 165 this year.

Yeah, it's gonna be a helluva match...but are we gonna see it in a year or two? Messenbrink has 4 years on varsity(I don't think I'm going out on a limb here). Sealey I thought would be a '74, but he's not growing. Haines wasn't supposed to spend long at '57. Oh...and Facundo was pretty damn good! And PJ Duke, he's probably a '65, no? I probably sound like a PSU fanboi, but I'm not. I'm just amazed at what they're doing. Ohio State or...IDK, some Cali school(this would take a long time) has to get a HUGE donation to start paying Wrestlers and coaches for an RTC if anyone is gonna compete. I'd like to see USC/UCLA bring back their program. I guess ASU is closer. Stanford is already there, but that is a tougher school to get into and you're limiting your options.

The youngest just wrestled a PSU recruit and beat him on a TB, a kid who is blocked by about 4 guys in the PSU room(if he were in College as Angelo is in this hypothetical). So...there are a few problems there.

Yeah...I know a Soph Phillips lost a 3-2 match to a Sr Ruth at the Ironman and now working it out, I can't think of where they'd have seen each other. Phillips DID Wrestle a few larger Tournaments. Did he maybe beat him at Sr Nationals? IN any event, he was at 171, a Soph, lost a close match to a guy who went 3/1/1/1. I don't think it's disqualifying even if he didn't get him back, but it's one of those things I'd have bet money he did avenge that match, but maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it was the other way around? Could Ruth have lost and then avenged it?

Steiber wasn't even the top recruit or prospect on his own HS Wrestling team... He was a GREAT Wrestler and recruit, but if we're really talking generational, probably not.

And I still don't give a shit as this had nothing to do with Bono signing a "release." I'll let you think you "won" some conversation as going back through ~40 pages of this shit is not worth it.

I had an awesome coach who could tell you the score or Fried and Smith in the Olympic Trials...and did. I still talk to him and we get on these topics and it sends me down a rabbit hole...watching Fried knock off Smith's main rival(I'm not nearly as good with the names, but I also didn't watch them). I'd say Phillips was pretty close to the two of them, no? I realize he didn't have those big wins vs Sr or college-level wrestlers, but he was so dominant in a state like Ohio. I thought he had one loss, it was to Ruth, and then he avenged it, correct? And he was winning the Ironman and tournaments like that as a '71 pound Freshman? I also respect his decision to not Wrestle. He didn't screw around and take a scholarship because that was the next logical step, just pretty much said he was done with Wrestling and moved on. But man, he would have been a beast. Haven't heard what he's up to. Hope he's doing well.

A-Bullshit. You've been like a fly on shit on this for the last couple of years. I know damn well you saw the Tweets from the Neb Athletic Department. B-Really? What wasn't articulate enough for you? C-....cool.

It has been something Ben has brought up, but I don't know if that's after they fell out or played a role in it. I thought people had said that played a role, but I've only heard a couple of details from people who are around the program. There was a lot of hand-wringing when he brought Gross though. I don't know, seemed like a good idea to get a kid you developed in there, but MM was caught in the middle a bit.

Yup. The problem was the way I articulated it You're a clown. I'm not going back and searching for the "exonerating tweets," as they were posted on here over and over again, you commented on the threads and I know you know this. This is the "willfully ignorant," part.

These have been on the forum, you've seen them, you're just too thick to wrap your head around it. Ok...cool. So you're just repeating this stupidity because you don't like Bono. That's fine. I don't give a shit about him either way. There's just a level of stoopid I can't handle and when you're repeatedly proven wrong and you're STILL bringing up the "Bono didn't sign the release," you're either supremely stupid...which hasn't been my impression of you. Or you're just willfully ignorant and no matter how much evidence you're provided with would ever convince you because...you think this is about how much one likes Bono. Oh...yeah. Good one. I MUST be Jon Reader because your tired playing stupid schtick has gotten old.

Phillips was...incredible. To dominate in Ohio like that...for 4 years at 171(I thought he was at '71 all 4)...but he's one of those guys who was a "generational," type prospect. It's kinda changing now as that criteria has grown so much, so many more U20 World Champs or HS Wrestlers coming in and beating elite College Wrestlers. I'd say the top names that come to my mind are Fried and Kolat...two guys who were just doing unprecedented things in HS, Mocco, Phillips in my mind was one of those guys. Those are the guys I'd put in that NEXT level. Oh, Chance Marstellar also. Glad to see him thriving now.