scourge165

If you want to be the greatest ever...and I've argued I think Sadulaev can become the greatest ever yet, this is the guy you've got to pass up. This is the standard...(and his Brother was pretty damn good as well).

Depends on what you mean. There are a shockingly number of undiagnosed heart issues. I know a guy, he said he used to ask people if it was normal for your heart to start beating really fast for like 30 seconds a minute and then slow down. It'd happened to me. He had a heart attack in his mid 30s. He had some...irregular heart beat that didn't get picked up when they were just doing routine tests. He was fine, but...it wasn't good. I went in after that, had a stress test that...I had to push for and about 15 minutes in and they're just light jogging, but it started going WILD for about 10-15 seconds. But that's how long it took for them to find it to give me something to prevent that from happening. I've seen family members smoke 2 packs a day, eat like *I poop my pants, don't laugh at me*, live into their late 80s, 90s. Other people I know, they ran everyday, they were in great shape and they died at 48 of a heart attack.

And...you somehow think this proves what? You had Bo Nickal and Joe Rogan BOTH say talking about taking the airports during the Revolutionary War was immediately disqualifying for President when they thought Biden said it. They found out Trump said it and it was, "well, when you're giving that many speeches, ya know, sometimes your words get mixed up." But sure, Biden got passes on all his Gaffes and...a book you didn't read somehow disproves that. FOH dude...

I think that's a pretty good bet. Or maybe Kasak is going for 4. Well, no, clearly not as the OP was confused about Bassetts age, but is that really why you think Bassett and Ferrari aren't capable of being 4X Champs? Because Ayala, Woods and Lee didn't win titles the last two years? If they had would you think they had a chance? Both of those guys should absolutely be competitive next year and then the following unless Bassett RSs. The last two individual performances at the NCAAs for Iowa has no bearing on that.

Well...I'd disagree if that were true, but which WC was Sadulaev banned from Wrestling when Snyder won a Gold? Was Snyder's top competition a...Canadian(and again, I don't recall this happening).

Yeah, I wouldn't be that happy at that stage(well, I would, but I'm assuming I'm good enough to win an Olympic Gold here)... It's fine to be beaten up, take a beat and then walk out, head held high(as I think Lee did in the last Olympics). It's the process to get you there. Just a stupid little anecdote, but I was Wrestling a tournaments with some Minnesota kids in it. I tech falled this guy I'd grown up Wrestling. I'd always beaten him and I knew him. Marty Morgan is over talking to my Dad, I don't know why, but whatever. I'm in the finals. I've got another Minnesota kid. I get hammed like 7-3(but not that close)or something. Not competitive. Morgan goes up to my Dad and asks if something was wrong, was I hurt, he asks me and I shake my head, I was fine. It was actually a closer match than my last with him. I'd grown up losing to one and beating the other. The one I'd grown up beating had already won his 2nd state title and the one I got worked by had taken a 5th or a 6th. That was a hurdle I had for a long time and it's mental weakness, but if I know I can get to my shots and finish, I'm just Wrestling free, taking shots, not worried about getting scored on and it doesn't feel tough. When I'm in my head thinking how good this guy is, I'm not Wrestling free, I'm planning a shot and...you aren't as quick if you're thinking 'now shoot!' I believe the mentality I have is more the norm than the exception. LOTS of guys at all levels have these issues. What Cael has done and what these guys seem to do is just get out of these head and let it fly...and when you do that and lose...it takes the sting out...the few times I can remember Wrestling like that vs a good guy and losing. Not all of it. Still hurts, but it is easier to accept. I did everything I could. (Long way of both making it about me and saying...yup, I totally agree)

Yeah, and I probably wouldn't. But I sure as hell wouldn't judge you or your kid for doing so. Bo had an advantage as a Freshmen maybe, but that's it. When you start Wrestling College National Champs and AAs and winning Super 32, Ironman and age level World Titles, I don't care anymore. Pretty much whoever you're a team of, they've had a guy who was 23-24 Wrestling in the last few years. If you weren't upset then, don't worry about Bassetts age.

The lack of respect for Snyder...drives me nuts. He won an Olympic Gold, 3 WCs and then he wrestled much of his career with...IMO, the greatest Wrestler ever, but...conservatively, a top 5 in MFS...and his career is talked about as though he's..Dustin Schlatter or someone. And that is NOT a knock on Schlatter, that dude last just TWO matches his first two years and won...I think 85, won it as a True Fresh and took a 3rd, then injuries mounted. He did make a World Team in College and his only loss was to the Bronze Medalist. So I'm not picking some guy who did nothing, but the's talked about A-like a guy who is done and he's not. Bruce is a legend, but...is Snyder's Gold and Silver really less impressive than Bruce winning a Gold in 1984 when MOST of the talent in that field was out of it and then a Gold when he was older than Snyder is now(meaning both it's impressive what he did, but we're closing the book on Snyder too early). I HATE these discussions when you detract from what someone else did, but...C'mon, winning it in '84 is not the same as any other year. He lost to the Russian the year before, the Russian had won the WC surrounding '80, another Russian won it in '80. He beat a Canadian. And now...I respect our 51st state, but...not quite the same as the Russians. It's just...the tone in which we talk about him, like a disappointment. And yet, David Taylor...who deserves ALL the accolades and "flowers" as they say, he couldn't beat the top 2 guys in front of him and had to change weight and then accomplished what Snyder did, but we talk about him like he was untouchable. No...do people not remember I think one year he lost to Howe before getting to Dake and Burroughs(or maybe had had an epic match he beat Howe, either way). Nobody has even challenged Snyder at 97KG. And not for nothing, but the guy who has stopped Snyder from winning a few more of the San Francisco-ie Medals, he did Wrestle Taylor. It was a dominating win for Sadulaev. Which is just worth noting. But Snyder can't gut Sadualev? Oh my...let me show him how it's done AND...I'm going to mention that there are 6 weights now and 10 when he Wrestled. I think it's likely we talk about a dream matchup with Sadulaev and Snyder if 92KG was still an Olympic weight as I think that's where Sadulaev Wrestles. He's where he looks the best and then Snyder has another Olympic Gold and a couple more World Titles. If THAT happens, then Taylor(all of 29 years old now) would have dominated the weight for 7 years with two Olympic Titles and 5 WCs. That's all hypothetical though. What I KNOW is Kyle Snyder came into Ohio State as one of the most high touted prep recruits, he got to campus as a True Freshmen and probably joins Logan Stieber as a 4X National Champ, but Ohio State needed him THAT YEAR to win a team Title...and Snyder, Wrestling J'Den Cox, the #1 seed and defending National Champ, he pulled off the upset over a Mizzou team that was RIGHT there with Ohio State, helps them bring home the team title. Then wins 3 more title and in the process, becomes the first College Wrestle to win an Olympic Gold and then come back and Wrestle in the NCAAs again beating a guy going for his 3rd title giving up 40 pounds before winning his 3 title giving up the most weight a HWT had given up in I thought it was like 50 years. Snyder peaked just fine, he's had a GREAT career, one of the most accomplished Americans ever and he's not done yet. Anyway, that Ono is something special, but I was impressed with Lee in that match. I actually feel better about his chances to win a Gold AFTER that match. (I wanted to stay on topic and not get into some off-topic tangent!)

If Bo was a Sr this year, he'd be in a normal age range. Haines was younger than average. I was 17 when I graduated and I was younger than half the Jr class. I probably should have been held back, but what I think is kinda silly is that your growth as a Wrestler is impacted THAT significantly by age vs development. Spending an extra year in HS isn't NEARLY as helpful as spending a year at the Collegiate level, grinding it out. Lets just stop with this age nonsense. I don't care. Kyle Snyder or Levi Haines...they were younger and their accomplishments INCREDIBLY impressive. But you take that year of training they had as Sr's away and...Haines is probably on the podium, not on the raised stage and Snyder, who knows, he was a freak, but that year led to tremendous growth for both. These are also just kids who happen to be the best in a sport that we all love watching, but still, the old guy we're talking about here and people keep taking jabs at? That's an 18 year old Jr in HS. The kid is a year younger than average. Also, like it or not(and most do not) he's doing quite a bit to grow the sport.

I almost want to root for Ono...the kid is so happy. I also loved seeing Lee look...laid back and mellow during weigh-ins. I think he'd benefit from dumping that "winning is life, losing is death," mentality...and I shouldn't quote that as I'm not sure that's exactly what he said, but it was close. (Or maybe he wouldn't...the hell do I know...he's a 3X Champ with a Silver at the Olympics, his way only failed relative to the INSANE standards set for him).

I would say Sinclair is physically a notch or 2 behind those guys. Technically, I think he's the best of that group. He needs to spend a year developing into a full '84. I wouldn't be surprised if he was a '65 pounder if he cut weight like most guys. He just doesn't cut. He probably got down to '84 by skipping a meal. So a year of lifting, working on building up to 200 walking around(which is probably not easy if he's working out regularly) and then go '84? I think he can be a 4Xer. To be clear though, I see...probably 6-7 kids a year coming in that I CAN envision being 4X Champs in a given year. I don't think they actually will. This year I guess I have just Lillendahl, Barr and then most other weights are still so stacked, but I'd say McEnally if not for 2 of the best Wrestlers at '84 in a while. But down the road, Knox, Blaze, Bo, Jax, Ross, Sinclair, Ferrari, Duke, Lockett, Arnold(maybe)...I'm tired, but not one would shock me if they won it as a Freshmen which means...potential 4X Champs. I tend to just look at the potential rather than the realistic outcome. I had Haines and Mesenbrink a full year before either stepped on the mat for PSU...and sure, I was wrong, but...close. I'm still curious how we're going to rank Mesenbrink when he goes through his career with a 99.8% Bonus/TF rate with 1 loss and goes 2/1/1/1 with a RT confusion from being a 4X undefeated champ. I'll give Duke the best shot if they can figure out how he can go '57 or'65 as a Freshmen. I didn't mention Raney(s) or Zepeda HS kids are so much more ready now it's...silly.

He's undefeated. He's won 4 National Titles. The only NON-Major of the year was a guy who just beat the #3 ranked Wrestler, last years runner up and that Wrestler backed up the entire match. Your Starocci obsession is amusing at this point. Iowa has the best stallers vs him. That's...about the extent of the bragging rights you've got right now.

I think you guys have limited imaginations! He's a Jr A 17-year-old who is cutting to Wrestle 215. We're not talking about a 195 moving up like Mirasola. Then you look at his build? I wouldn't be surprised if he's 6'5 by the time he steps on the mat for Okie State(he looks 6'4-6'5 right now to my eye). And you look at his build...Wrestling other 215s, he looks like he's awkwardly bent over because he's got that big thick back and he just uncoils with those long arms. Kid looks like he can tie his shoes without bending over. THAT is going to make his offense a LOT easier to get to without nearly as much risk at the next level. He's longer than Keuter and thicker through the chest/back and Ben Keuter, who...lets be clear, is a blue-blue chip recruit who is simply NOT dominant yet as a guy who has only Wrestled 1 full year of College Wrestling, but is still competitive. So I think he's bigger, I think he's got more room to grow and I think you're underselling what Ben Keuter is. But I think Ross is bigger, longer, he's got room to add a lot more weight. Most importantly, the way he coils up and explodes, it's just too easy. And he's not diving in on a head inside shot and working to finish, he's finishing it cleanly like Jordan Burroughs or he's out of there. The shoulder injury? He's going to a coach who is a pretty good point of reference on how to rehab a shoulder injury(though...I suspect he'll be beyond that well before he gets to Stillwater. And shoulder rehab can actually make you stronger, make the supporting muscles stronger. My shoulder was MUCH stronger 12 months after reconstructive surgery than it was just prior when it was slipping in and out(no silly lethal gun having to pop it back in, but you can feel it). Go back and look at Greg Kerkvliet at the same age. He wasn't more physically imposing than Ross and I don't think he's near the athlete...and he's been one helluva College Wrestler. This kid moves different than any HWT we've seen in a while. Maybe since McMullen from Northwestern who wrestled at Wyoming Seminary years back, but if memory serves, he was not nearly as long and didn't have the same frame. I'm a big Baseball fan. I like following the prospects as much as anyone. You look at a 16/17 year old pitcher from the DR or a HS Jr/SR and the key word is 'projection.' How much...projection do they have left. When Stephen Mocco got to College, he had very little. He was great as a Freshmen, great as a Sr, but he didn't improve much(there was only so much he could). I'd argue Ross has an enormous amount of projection available. I think you're going to get a 6'4-6'5 250-260 pound HWT with RARE quickness. Now...if you're a Michael Mocco fan, well...yeah, no kidding. You don't HAVE to pick PJ Duke or Marcus Blaze just yet, but here again, I'd say Ross has more room to grow and improve than Mocco, though, to be fair, I think he's got room to grow as well. But...I'll plant my Flag on Deshaun Ross and if he stays healthy...*and NOT because he's had some minor injuries in HS, that's...the norm these days. But just because if he is all in on Wrestling, I think he could be something nearly unprecedented. Stephen Neal-ish?

I'm still at a loss as to how they didn't give him an escape vs the match vs O'Connor. He kicks out, rolls and is on his back with 1 second on the clock, up to his feet, 5 feet away, still 1 second left. Slow it down...this one bugs me as I had Haines winning it and Humphrey taking 2nd with O'Connor...IDK, 3, 4th, not top 2. Lost a bracket and a pool on this one...

Yeah...no, you're right. It's FAR more likely the 5X NC and then the guy who has gone 3/3/2/1 with losses to Brooks and or Hidlay in the NCAA Tournaments...they'll probably be the #2 and #3 seeds or...#1 and #4?

Sure...there are True Freshmen who are better than those ahead of them. They generally don't waste a year of a prized recruit for a marginal upgrade when one is a True Freshmen, the other a RS Freshmen and both can fit into the lineup next year. You seem obsessed with PSU. This isn't about getting "recruited over." This is just an...odd way to make the best use of what you would think would be two of the young building blocks of your program.

Well...yeah, if he was 6'4/270, it'd be kinda silly to say I think he could be a bigger version of him, wouldn't it? On another note, Tommy had a kid coming up, right? A Jr? How good is he? And is he going through the same...page as his Dad? 103 to HWT?

Yeah..but it's not a stock, it's a kid. By the way, if you are shorting stocks, COST is a GREAT stock to short. Super expensive, like a 60PE, small margins that will be under more pressure with tariffs and enormous growth this year. Anyway, don't like shorting...kids. He's been playing Football and Wrestling. Get him in a College Strength and conditioning program...that's a BIG part of the battle. Also, IIRC, he hurt it, missed half the season and he's been back fine since then.

Yeah, but does that matter for Crookham? This dude beat Vito pretty soundly twice last year. He ended up losing...obviously, but that's a WC and the defending champ as a Freshmen. He seems like a guy who's a big favorite every year he Wrestles.

Hey, I'm not calling ANY National Title easy...to be clear. I'm just responding to the argument, both can't be true. You can't say he hasn't won anything and until then it doesn't mean anything(at the College level) and THEN say 'but if he does win, 125 was really weak.' Which isn't a quote, I'm paraphrasing.

That, PSU exhaustion or even boredom with their greatness. Right, but you were basically arguing that there's an assumption any would have won #5 had they been given the chance. I was just pointing out...I don't know if that's true in an admittedly disingenuous argument by showing some of their margin of victories. If Lee wins a title the year before the Ramos loss and that was HIS 5th year or in this case, his prospective 5th year, we'd all say he'd obviously have won. Nobody in that weight could have touched him. Dan Gable... Also, why this is all hypothetical as Parker Keckheisen absolutely CAN beat Starocci. I think there'd be 4-5 bigger upsets in the last decade than PK beating Cstarr.

Yeah...Ramos should have had 2NF. That's the only questionable call. The Oliver call wasn't. John Smith doesn't even argue that call because, again, that was a point of emphasis that year. The next year, it's 2 for Oliver...I think. The further away from it, the more I forget how they changed the rules. But even in that Ramos-Stieber match, Stieber was 5-0 vs Ramos, he gave up ONE TD and he still wins that match with or without that NF. He won 7-4. They wanted 2 NF. I don't think you have a sketchy 4-time Champ. You have lots of calls that are close. Yianni's TD vs McKenna? Was THAT two? Maybe at the end of the 2nd period, but then you still have a 3rd period in which McKenna is down 1 instead of up 1 and it's a whole different 3rd period. I also don't think your "Mt Rushmore" even has to come from the 4X Champs(or 3X Champs in 3 years) as I've said. Spencer Lee was as dominant as any of them, Gable(really either, but Stephenson) was as dominant as anyone(save for Cael). Lincoln Mcllravy, I don't think any of these guys, save for Cael was immune from a fluke match, move, whatever and then losing a match. Askren lost to one guy who just had his number and he dominated Jake Herbert who was a stud and dominant 2X Champ. But I've already made this point. It's so easy to lose...how do you not get at least a little credit for doing it a FIFTH time? Not saying you have to put him in your top 4. My top 4 is different every time I'm asked with only #1 there every time(and probably Dake, but again, Dake is more similar to Starroci than anyone wants to give him credit for).

He could be a bigger Tommy Rowlands type. Part Rowlands, part Kerry McCoy. If he's all in on Wrestling, he could be the biggest recruit to commit from this class.

Well...at least we can all agree Metcalf was pinned! (Seriously though...I'm not sure how he wouldn't be...it wasn't his shoulder blades or the upper part of his back, but...doesn't have to be). Ahh well...to bad we never got to see them go at it again

I actually JUST saw that Ross committed and...it's kinda blowing my mind people aren't talking about it more. I get Bassett has marketed himself better and Jax and he are teammates and beat some NCAA AAs/NCs(I think) at the Sr Level, but Ross is just about the perfect HWT. He's so damn long, athletic. He's got a thick frame and looks like he could put on 30 more GOOD pounds and just be an absolute beast. I think he is as good a HWT prospect since...maybe Gable. As good as Kerk. But I also haven't seen much about him(maybe that's because I haven't been on here much). I'm also guessing I'll get some pushback on that from Iowa fans, and I'm not saying he's as refined as Keuter, but I like his upside at the next level better. Especially in the room with Taylor.