scourge165

I just thought Mesenbrink was more dominant from start to finish. He tech falled the #2 ranked Wrestler. A lot of guys only goal was to slow him down. HWT has more cupcakes in it vs the B1G at 165...so...there, that's it. That's my reason. Hendrickson had a much better tournament. And Shultz, like most Greco guys...just regressed and kept on regressing in Folkstyle. I'm not compelling by the argument he had a total of 3 decisions against Amine and Caliendo. Guys wrestled him to try and slow down the match. Hendrickson had the biggest upset...maybe of all-time. He had a great match vs Gable. Mesenbrink was the clear and dominant #1 from start to finish.

Use another e-mail.

No

I don't care about pins....I just...kinda covered that.

I feel like if EVER the 5th title becomes meaningful and you CAN'T just use the "the other 4 timers would have won it given another try," really falls apart now. 184 was as tough a weight as HWT IMO, the difference is, the people everyone thought was the 3rd best won HWT whereas the favorite won 184. People are also voting on their own criteria. The best CFB player isn't a QB or RB every year, plenty of times it's been another position, but it goes to who it goes to. So I voted for Starocci...but I also voted for Wyatt. I'd really like to see it split. And if we're being honest, based on the actual criteria, it should go to Mesenbrink. Quality of competition? I'll take his level of dominance over 165 over Hendrickson's. A TF is just as dominant as a Pin...IMO. Moreso if I'm being honest. Ramos pinning Lee wasn't dominant, but it's hard to not dominate a guy when you're up 16 on him. Mesenbrink tech falled the runner-up this year and went through the B1G. I won't be upset with any of the 3 though. They're all clearly worthy.

Ah...that's right. Ok, well....he's somehow underrated. Hawewinkel is another guy who I forgot. Also like Gerry Abas. Man is a 3X Champ if he's not gassing he beats 3 absolute studs. Even the 15-6 loss to Fried seemed to turn on that reversal that wasn't. The way they wrestled back then was just so much simpler. Looked more like high level HS Wrestling now. Shots, the defense was mainly trying to stuff the head of if you got put to a hip, lock around the chest and try and get your leg back. You step out of bounds, the wrestling is over. I don't like a lot of rule changes, but I LOVED the rule changes regarding Wrestling out of bounds. There are so many all-time greats and guys from that era, I'm just totally ignorant about them. There's the one guy from Iowa...Rico Chiparelli or something. IIRC, he was a 3X Champ and it was like 12-0, 15-0, 10-0 or something like that. I can't evaluate it. Uetake, kinda the same thing. Guy was the best in the world while he was the best in the Country, but...it's just hard without seeing it in MY opinion.

Jon Trenge... Did Koschek ever win one? I thought he was like 4,2,4,3 or something. Oh, Rivera. He's up there. Craig Brester. Did Backes ever win one? Ness, Palmer, Pletcher, Kollin Moore. Both Hidlay brothers, Cam Amine or Myles(whoever took the Bronze) And then a couple names I can't remember. There was a guy Q. Write beat a couple times and then Ruth beat him. Another kid from Lehigh. The Stanford Amuchastegui...Logan Storley, Evans Iowa.

Betting on the wrong horse my friend. Sarah already went back and wiped them out. Now it's Nvidia who is taking the lead...and Jensen Huang is the new Miles Bennett Dyson!

Penn State's own fans are basically like, 'eh, it make sense for these two guys who took 5th as a Freshmen and as a Soph to transfer." That' s a good indication of what they have coming in. What type of recruit was Davis compared to Desmond and Perry(and anyone else other than Blaze/Ono who may go '33-'41?)

I kinda did too. I feel like Twins are different than just normal brothers. The...mental telepathy stuff they talk about. I hear Cole gets hungry when Connor is cutting? Wild...though I'm pretty sure I just made that up. BUT onto Barr, even if he could go '84, why would he? So he can Wrestle the gantlet that is going to be 184? I already did this and made a MUCH longer list, but just the young guys, Ferrari, Sinclair, Berge#5 seed, you had I think 3-4 other AAs this year. Norman from Stanford is long and a stud and he nearly beat O'Toole, but he gassed. Probably because he just walked out of Dachau to make 174, so I'd guess he goes up. There are others who are obvious, but I'm forgetting, and then there's the guy who s IMO, the favorite to win it the next couple years, the Freshmen who was a short and curly hair away from beating both Keck and Starocci this year. In fact, all that should get Sinclair to go 174. I know he doesn't like cutting, but he's nowhere NEAR as big as any of those guys...

Who wants to tell him we're doing this without AI? Seriously though, my take on AI is...it's could be the greatest invention in human history, eclipsed only by harnessing fusion...which would create free and 100% clean energy for all of mankind! But...ask Tim Ogle what happens when you mess with big oils money? Oh...and since it really doesn't matter, I've invested a...good sum of money into AI. I'm gonna at least live good until the T-2 takes over and I turn to dust holding onto a metal fence!

Sounds like something an AI Bot would say to convince us all he's one of us. The first steps in a larger plan at global domination. You're not fooling me Okozach...Or should I call you...Blackwell?

Am I "telling you" that John Smith was pushed out? I don't know...but you're moving the goal posts a bit. This was the premise I used to start this discussion. You then pointed to the difference in each coaches tenure which...I don't find all that compelling for the reasons I gave and then we ended up back here. As I said from the start, they could easily frame this as Tom Ryan, who is pretty older for a Wrestling coach...about the same age as John Smith, retiring and they could go with the guy who has had a ton of success, is an Olympic and World Champ and...in this case wrestled for Ohio State. So no, I'm not telling you that. I'm telling you people have speculated about it. I CAN tell you that Coleman Scott was brought in as the heir apparent after there were..."issues" between Smith and Esposito that go beyond the mat but when Okie State had the chance to make a bigger hire, they did so.

Isn't that pretty much what David Taylor is? I don't really think you need a loud coach. At least for Wrestling. Just one who commands respect, people want to Wrestle for and who is qualified. Even Casey Cunningham. I know that's kinda rolled into the PSU thing, but most programs would hire him. He seems pretty laid back. I feel like either type of HC can win, but you're looking more at the older school, Gable, JR Robinson, even John Smith...and it seems like the younger HCs are pretty reserved. Would you say Schwab is a louder coach?

Oh...that's right. I thought Figs was a Freshmen last year. It was the year before he was like 15-0 and they went with Courtney, right?

So...Figs entering the portal? Iowa? ASU seems like the 2nd last place I'd pick at a '25 right now.

That's why my old coach said. He was Wrestling an Iowa guy and...I don't recall where they were Wrestling, but it wasn't an Iowa friendly crowd. He got hit with...a BAD stall call vs the #2 see in the final 10-20 seconds(I've seen the tape, but it's not exactly HD). That made it 4-4(or maybe 5-5, but it tied it). He said he heard the whole plays erupt in boos and he looked around to see what happened. Like maybe someone was getting pinned or whatever. And then he realized, it was...him and his match. So...I'd bet it was probably even more animosity vs PSU. I'm at the point with PSU where I'm not a fan, but how can you not just marvel at what they're doing? Going into the this years tournament, the one guy I didn't think had a chance to win a Title...was the defending National Champ. I didn't THINK Davis would. I did pick Barr 2nd and he damn near won it, but...the other 8? Who'd have been a surprise? I'm more surprised they DIDN'T win at '57, '74, mildly surprised they didn't win at '25 and I really thought Van Ness would win. It is a joke at this point. That '26 class is as good of a top 3 as we've seen in a while, so if this kid is the 4th rated recruit...I don't know much about him, but guessing he's solid! They're already gonna have trouble getting Duke, Henkel, Cunningham into the lineup, now this kid. I'm honestly waiting to see Sadulaev and Taz decide 'we want very much become American students.' Sad cuts to '97, Taz...well, I'm thinking he can wrestle at ~225 and do just fine. Cael won't quite until they go 10-10. National Champs, every weight!

Oh...so should he have asked what the general feeling was toward Oklahoma State in the 1930s and 40s? We ALL know who has the most titles Jimmy. The QUESTION was about the feeling people in the community had when Iowa was dominating as...presumably, there aren't a WHOLE lot of people on here regularly commenting from the pre WW2 Era when Oklahoma State started to dominate...

Well...33 years vs 30 years overall They're also about the same age but John Smith is maybe the greatest Wrestler in American History, he had won 5 Team Titles, won 2 himself(the family success also relevant as Pat was a 4X NC under John) and he...pretty much as been the face of Oklahoma State Wrestling for the past almost 40 years. Tom Ryan Wrestled at Iowa, he won a Title at Ohio State and has had a great deal of success but...if you're telling me that John Smith can be pushed out of the way at Okie State, but Tom Ryan can't at Ohio State in favor of a younger, bigger name as their program stagnates(which I'm not even saying they have, but...they're not gaining ground and they have a LOT of resources they've put into the program)...I'd be skeptical.

Oh damn...I forgot about Millard. To be honest, I just got bored working backwards, so...I stopped, but yeah, that'd be great. Millard was the guy I thought was JUST a shade behind Sinclair, Hopke and the Mirasola's. Though...Hopke kinda went and looked a bit disappointing the last few times I saw him. How's he looking? He was so good and so slick, but he looked like he hadn't physically matured yet. He put on some good weight this past year?

Ok...what in the hell is going on here? Jimmy with the rational take in a thread? That's...that is troubling!

I would venture to guess the same was said about John Smith at Okie State. They don't have to frame it as him being fired. They can frame it as the good old "spending more time with his family."

I don't really see Cael as a loud personality. Or that as a requirement.

Yeah, I'd be annoyed. Let Minnesota have nice things too! They could have a REALLY good team. Hopke-HWT Nelson-197 McEnally-184 Riddle/Whiting-174 Riddle was a kid I thought was underrated and could be a stud. He's probably a top 10 '74 in the Country...IMO. Brenner/Sparks-165?

He's 34. Not that young.