scourge165

Oh...well, in that case, I have no problem. I'm fairly sure the same thing happened when Barr wrestled Mirsaola. Barr spanked him pretty good. 10-1 IIRC? Mirasola wasn't going to Wrestle this year anyway(most likely)...but he wrestled the match. I get he's not a Ferrari level recruit, but he's not far off. I'm good with that. Let the loser know where he stands. Mirasola now knows he's not all that close to Barr at the moment. The biggest leap Wrestlers make is usually during their Freshmen season, in-season, going through the practices and then, in my experience, Soph year when you know what it takes. So I'd let them all Wrestle. If Starocci and Brooks were both at '84 as one was taking a RS, I'd let them Wrestle. I don't think it hurts anyone, only helps. You can't be scared of taking losses. That's almost certainly going to happen.

This is exactly what I'd do. -You're losing a LOT(most) of the top HWT talents to Football. -Of those who are left...there's still certainly a lot of talent and guys you can pick here and there who would thrive, but enough to fill up another weight class? I don't know...Keuter, Feldman, Trumble, Bastida, Pitzer...I don't even know who else, but a lot of the HWTs would cut to the 225 or 220 weight pretty easily. Even the 215. So as I said in another thread, I'd bump each weight up a bit. Not sure how I'd do that, but...make MFF Classes make some sense...they skew too heavy though(particularly given my argument about losing a lot of athletes to Football). 125, 134, 143, 154, 163, 174, 190, 203, 214, 276 Makes those 125, 133, 142, 150, 158, 167, 177, 190, 212, 285 I'd say make it matside weighins as that's...apparently popular, but I wouldn't do that. Just make those the weights. I should have read all the way down. That's similar to what I'd do.

Why would this burn a year? You have 4 dates...he's only used the one far as I know. Couldn't or shouldn't he have 3 more? And if you're talking about the Soldier Salute, would that even count as a date? You RS, you can wrestle unattached at opens...so I'm missing something. What is it?

Is it? YOU think it's an excuse? That's kinda pathetic. I don't view it much of an excuse...

That's a joke from...I can't remember the name, but the guy who makes all those Yellowstone shows, one of the new shows they make it on(and it's Tyler Sheridan and Landman is the name of the show). ...I was going to explain it, but I'll l just leave this here. (Also, I don't know how people report their drinking, but I am very skeptical of the stats as Wisconsin had like 8 of the 10 drunkest Counties in the Country...now we drink here, but C'mon...tell me WV, Louisiana, Jersey, we're exponentially worse than those states? Our Drunk Driving laws are, but...well, anyway).

I hope he does(or at least did). He still did those things if he got sloppy drunk, but...if they(AJ and Anthony) did some of those things without Alcohol impacting their judgment, it just makes it that much worse.

Yeah, that was a pretty compelling and damning argument against going to Iowa. I don't really understand the debate here. I don't believe any Iowa Wrestling fan is actually happy with the "other than Penn State," asterisk that they keep using, or the 'what about Mesenbrink, Kerk...." I don't think anyone's saying the problem with Iowa is that they're recruiting guys like Woods or Teamer who were AAs, the problem is...they haven't done nearly as well at getting their own blue-chip recruits to come in and have a lot of immediate success. This Iowa. It's like Alabama Football. Does anyone think 'Bama is going to suddenly become alright with, 'well, other than Georgia how many team shave been better?' Brands started off his run at Iowa with the Va Tech 5. Those were 5 High School studs who came to Wrestle for him. That they had to transfer after sitting a year(like Mesenbrink or Kerk) isn't the point. Just as with Metcalf, Borschel, neither used a year of eligibility elsewhere. Penn State and Ohio State were always underachieving given the in-state talent. Iowa to a lesser extent, Okie State got the blue chip recruits because that's where you went if you wanted to be a part of something bigger, wanted to win multiple titles, team titles and maybe have international success. Now that Cael and Ryan are getting those blue chip recruits, it seems like Iowa needs something else. Okie State went and got David Taylor and certainly seems to be on the right track, but...Iowa appears like they're falling behind and using the money they have to buy a few guys each year who were high AAs. That'll keep a program like Iowa in the team trophy race, but...I'm not sure it's going to get them back to where they expect to be(unless they don't expect to be there any longer). Perhaps Bassett, Forrest and Ross end up at Iowa and can help get Iowa back to the Mt top. It's also help if Arnold, Ferrari and Keuter all live up to their potential and then stick around and pursue careers with the HWC at the Sr level. That'd be a massive boost. And before the "Iowa hater/PSU fan," comes out, I'm neither. I am amazed at what PSU is doing...but I grew up doing the same with Iowa...I just see the gap widening between them and PSU while it appears to be closing with the OSU's behind them. If it was JUST about picking up transfers, we'd be talking about Michigan.

Yeah, a little bit. I have no particular reason to be a Poeta fan, but re-watching the matchup with Burroughs was extremely frustrating. Burroughs was backing up the whole match...and I get that was part of his style then, get guys to step and hit that double. It was even a bigger part of his style for his first title as he really was more versatile and his hand fighting was pretty damn tough as he moved on. He had more than just a blast double. But the WHOLE match he's backing out of bounds. Again though, you can do this for anyone. Yeah, he was a stud as well. Running into Cael going for that 159th win was...pretty tough to overcome. I was also a fan of the Lehigh team when they had Letters and Trenge and some of those other horses. They usually looked like they were about a weight class or two bigger than what they wrestled.

There are a lot of guys who can be on this list. There are guys like Moore and Pletcher who almost belong on another list. Guys who got screwed and lost the '20 season to end their careers. I'd give the benefit of the doubt to Hayden as he lost that '20 season as well...plus, Deakin seemed to...tighten up in the NCAAs(nearly got stuck the year he won it) but he still would have had to go through Carr to get there. He also got beaten by guys like Teamer...which isn't the worst loss, but it was Teamer's first year as an AA. Trent, he got 5 years. He was one of the best over those 5 years, 2 times he lost to Brooks in the finals...but also those losses to guys like Hunter Bolen... Eh, I guess if you're on the "best to never win it," list, you're going to have some bad losses. Sometimes it's just brutal matchups like Jordan Burroughs in the finals or Aaron Brooks and sometimes it's just not Wrestling your best in March and I'll throw Deakin in there since he did win one and I don't wanna call anyone else out.

Yeah...they were really good as well. Obviously when you have a kid who is a 4 time finalist...he's gonna be in the conversation(while taking a Silver in the World Championships). I just think Poeta gets overlooked. Just so clean. Had to Wrestle up at '65 as I think the two Tirapelle brothers were still there(I think, at least ), then went 3/2/2 at '57. Pretty similar to Gillman. Was a backup as a Freshmen, Poeta went up.

Mike Poeta is one of the best Wrestlers to not win a title since 2000. That's...really got nothing to do with anything, but he was so explosive, so smooth.

I'd be more in favor of spreading them out a bit rather than adding one. Maybe start after '41. 149-152 157-163 165-174 174-190 184-205 There just arent' enough really good big guys to have a 235 and a 285. Or a 235 and even a 300-HWT(though that would make it easier for guys LIKE Dilian Johnson or Nash to Wrestle and play FB.

Ok...and now he's at 174. That's moving up nearly 20 pounds. I think it fits.

You're acting like this is my own preference. That was literally the topic. PSU guys have been gaining weight... So it is kinda relevant where they start out. And....again, to be clear here, this wasn't me who brought this topic up. But it was about Penn State...

But why would we? This is about Penn State. If it was just about biggest growth spurts...I'd have mentioned Tommy Rowlands. I think he wrestled at every weight in HS. I just included the last weight Haines wrestled at in HS as using the International Weights is more difficult as it often forces guys to go up or down. But it wasn't about who "wins" it was just..Haines last Wrestled at 45 in HS, '57 and now '74. Anthony Cassar, the only guy to beat Gable, '97 and then actually moved up and added enough weight to win a HWT title. Truax also started at '74, then '84 to '97 then back to '84. Bartlett was Wrestling up at '49. He was a '38 pounder in HS...only moved up to '49 to get into the lineup.

I looked several times and saw no Haines Haines 145 HS->157 ->174 That's a pretty substantial jump Ed Ruth 174-184 Didn't Q. Wright go from '74-'84 to '97?

Yeah, as a coach you put the best guys out there. And I know the Wrestlers understand. That's kinda my point. They could have 3-4 of the best 157/165 in the Country in a year and only 2 can Wrestle. Not many College kids want to start 2 years after being a backup for 2 years when they know they could be Wrestling in the Semis with a SHOT as Fresh/Soph. You need good backups. You don't need a NC in waiting at every weight. And yes, you let it take care of itself. We're just talking about how that's going to happen. That said, this is about Wolbert, a kid who's a stud and should get his own thread, so I'm not even sure how this turned into a PSU thread! I've forgotten. It'll be fun to watch! Sinclair is wrestling 197 right now. I think Wolbert is taller. They clearly have different builds, but he looks like Kasak when he was a '38 and he was cutting(because...Penn and not Wisconsin). You watch and he's taller than a lot of the guys he's Wrestling. He could add some muscle and cut to '41 but the trend seems to be to cut less, build up more and enjoy the sport. That's Cael's ideology from what I can tell, Askren's and DT had a little success when he added a few pounds.

It hasn't happened to this point because the room has not been THIS deep to this point. They didn't have this type of depth on this team in the past...great as they were. And Duke RS for a year and then starting would mean he doesn't get bigger, stays at '57, SVN stays down at '49(or he beats SVN). And then you have Kasak, Mesenbrink, Ryder, Barr, Sealey. You'd have to assume Kasak or Mesenbrink go up in order for this to happen and I don't know that either have that much more room to add. But again, we're still talking about those guys, Henckel, Cunningham Brothers as well as the guys I mentioned. You're also going to have the roster limits coming in and playing a role. Not even sure when they start, but it's going to start happening. Facundo almost has to. He's going to watch a year just slip away. This is a guy who beat Haines on the world stage and reportedly beat Kasak in a Wrestle-off...which I don't think is all that hard to believe. I guess what could happen is that Tyler Kasak could take a RS but this is all to get Duke in there and a lot of other guys who'll be sitting early in their careers. But that's PSU for the next few years...and we all known they're going to keep picking up a couple top 10 kids in the meantime and a few other top 40 kids(in a down year). Also...he has lost a couple guys. You had Bubba Jenkins who was not too different from Mekhi Lewis in terms of accomplishments. 2nd, then undefeated going into the NCAAs but was hurt, then came back for ASU and won it. Suriano-2X Champ after leaving. Maybe that's being a bit pedantic. Those are two guys who have unique reasons(Suriano just because he's unique). Guys who did I think may prove my point more than hurt it; Beard-I don't think Barr is beating him if he stays and he was an AA as a Freshmen...but Dean came in. Nevillis-A top recruit who just fell behind two NC at HWT including the guy who has given Gable his only College loses. And a few others who just wanted to Wrestle like Barraclough. I think if/when he becomes an AA at a small school, it's only going to serve as stronger motivation, particularly for bigger recruits to leave.

I'm not getting this. Is the joke you don't think AJ Ferrari will Wrestle, so you're just talking about Angelo? Because...it's tough to win a National Champ without Wrestling more than 2 matches against "average" competition. But I agree...Josh Barr will beat the 2021 National Champs...if he ever actually Wrestles him.

So...what do you do? The PSU fan obviously likes the Greyshirt, Redshirt, and then 4 years...but if you're Duke, do you want to wait a couple more years? When you say ready to win, we all understand you're saying ready to compete for a title, but...can he beat Kasak or Mesnbrink? Perhaps. He'll likely be able to compete with any and of them. So he makes plenty of sense to be one of those guys to transfer out. But Okie St...he builds up, goes '74, slides in for Hamiti? Or, better yet(for team races) Ohio State. They've got a whole lot of talent and him sliding in at '65 there?

Yeah, but...what happens when your hands are full? A lot can happen in two years. Unless you're worried about regression/injury, how the hell do you squeeze Duke into that lineup? This is already assumnig Facundo is out and we saw him beat Haines soundly, but he's lost to Kasak. So Duke comes in, takes a RS, he's still bumping up against Kasak, Mesnbrink, Haines(to say nothing of several others who you'd think would be AA caliber Wrestlers based on past accomplishments).

It'd make sense. Cunningham just lost to another kid that's headed there. I think PJ Duke could be a contender to win 4 Titles. At least as much as anyone is. But yeah, he's got guys who'll have won 2 or 3 ahead of him.

Yeah, that's going to change. Guys like Duke aren't waiting 3 years to maybe crack the lineup. Henckel, Cunningham, Sealey these are guys who have a lot of talent. I mean, Cunningham is probably sticking around with his Dad and Brother, but guys LIKE that. One of Mirasola/Ryder won't be starting most likely and they're studs. It hasn't been this packed for a while. It really went to another level when you had Mesenbrink transfer in, the Mirasola twins go there and then Starocci coming back. Barraclough and Nevills are really tough kids, but probably not as talented as the depth they've got coming in or already in.

Why are you showing me this? I understand exactly how much they make... A 7th rd pick from last year('23) is going to make ~3.8M over the first 4 years of the deal...but they're not getting much if any GTD money...which is why I said the key is making the roster(that's a 500K-600K difference over PS). And I said I wouldn't go so far as to say what someone like Starocci or Brooks(assuming they go on to win an NC) are making "pennies" as compared to that. But 3.8M in salary through FOUR years is probably going to come out to ~2M after taxes(agent fees, etc...). I said it made more sense, but you just posted those salaries for what reason exactly?

Yup...but hey...