scourge165

He does give up TDs. It's a bit similar to Lee in that respect. But he's also got a LOT of different attacks on his feet and he is going to come after you like an angry Honey Badger for 7 minutes. He's not going to stand in the center with 6 seconds left just looking at you. He's going to wear guys who have very full gas tanks out. That's why I said he reminded me of an Iowa guy, a Mcllravy type. Mcllravy was slick, but his technique wasn't nearly as good as Abas...but he still came back to beat him 16-15. He will get out on the bottom. Hard to predict how his riding will translate, but I think it'll work out. But the kid is not going to give ANYONE anything easy. It will be entertaining. He really does seem like an old school Gable type guy. But again, his Dad is also brilliant at breaking down an opponent and coming gup with a game plan for that individual. That old bastard(said with genuine respect) is still a kicking everyone's ass in the room as well. He can still probably beat Mitchell. So he's in there working on O'Toole and Carr right now most likely. Or...maybe just some kinda basic concepts.

I feel like the point still stands. He's going to thee powerhouse RTC right now. He's going to have several guys to work out with. Both in the room during the regular season practices, or with the RTC. But thanks, I haven't paid attention that closely to everyone. I assumed Hall would still be there. Find it a bit strange he's not, but so be it. Guys have other things going on in their lives that take them to other parts of the Country.

My man...you need to take a look at the roster and recruits coming into State College the next couple years. They've literally got Messenbrink and Haines. You've got Barr, Ryder, Connor and Cole Mirasola, Joe Sealey and Facundo. They may have been on a 5 years cycle with their previous super trios and then studs surrounding them, but I'm not even sure if he's really recruiting them at this point, or if there is just a line of World Medalists lined up outside his office waiting to get in. Lillendahl, Gibson, Kasak, Van Ness and again, I suspect you'll have 4 more people related to Gibson joining him. You had Nevills, an AA caliber Wrestler with Kerkvliet. His brother also got beat out by a NC...though that wasn't due to recruiting so much...entirely. They had 2 top ~8 guys at 197, so Cassar went up to HWT and knocked Nick out of the lineup. I could go on with Mansville and Joseph or so many others moving forward yet, but he's recruiting multiple studs at every weight and he's doing it...very simply...because he can. And if you can, why wouldn't you?

But that's individuals. That's where I've said at least Wrestling has that going for it, but how many people are tuning in to watch a match or a game that's pretty much already decided before it's over with? It's generally only in niche sports you have this type of dominance. With Tiger, as dominant as he was, he wasn't winning like PSU is winning in Wrestling(it's a difficult analogy)...but in your examples there is suspense. There's no suspense when it comes to the team race. This isn't a huge concern of mine, I just simply think it'd be better if Messenbrink went to Mizzou or...actually, if Nagao and Messenbrink went to Iowa. How fun would it be to see Iowa compete with PSU and Messenbrink and Haines battling it out? Plus, Iowa has that recruiting class coming in. Maybe Truax also goes there. Or they go to OSU. I don't care...but it's telling that you'd probably need the teams that had the best recruiting classes to add 3 NC contenders to make it interesting with PSU. But instead, PSU got at least two of them and from what it sounds like, they'll get the 3rd. I'm gonna be there next year. We're all gonna be here on the forums, but I even hear people on here who love College Wrestling talking about how they DVR the Championships and watch them later on FF. So I imagine they're not watching the Rd of 12 or the medal matches, those pivotal matches that WERE deciding the team champs before Cael went and built the dynasty at PSU. AGAIN, not saying PSU is "ruining" Wrestling or doing anything I wouldn't want the team I root for to do. They're doing what everyone should...it's just a better product IMO when a match in the Rd of 16 can end up swinging the team Title or a match in the Finals would be even better. We're not looking at that for the next 3-4 years(conservatively speaking).

Still had literally NOTHING to do with Bono. Even Nebraska confirmed this at the end, but...some people stay petty.

That varies wildly from school to school. I know Wisconsin has denied admission to several athletes who went on to compete at other schools. A couple FB players to MSU or Neb, two Wrestlers who I'll not name as it's too obvious on this forum(and not the Askrens). There was a Wisconsin Wrestler with good grades and a very good ACT who needed to retake it to get in(or at least the coach recommended retaking it to be considered...and he got in).

Also, too bad Marquette cut their program due to lack of funding...despite more than enough money to fund the program being raised. Oh well....

LOL...you guys and your gaslighting. You're telling me wearing a Polo or a shirt and a tie under a singlet is "weird" or somehow NOT the norm?

Ok, goes without saying, but it's agreed, this is all nonsense, right? 1-Has anyone said this has "ruined College Wrestling forever?" 2-Does Jimmy really believe Cael's run is a "puny blip?" Because...well that's just objectively stupid. 3-With regard to Okie State and their 1928-1962 titles, can anyone name the team with the most National Championships in College? Harvard is #1, Princeton is #3, Minnesota is #6(of course some of those the teams just crowned themselves, but still...my point remains). Okie State should be viewed...IMO, more on part with a program like USC(or ND). They had success when the sport was VASTLY different than it is now and they've been able to maintain that success, but do people really view their dominance on par with Alabama? Anyway, again, nobody has said the sport is ruined. I've seen people bemoaning the idea that smaller schools find and develop an AA and then he leaves like Truax or Woods or others. But that's not exclusive to PSU. And again, a "puny blip?" I wonder if we should just give Jimmy more attention and this nonsense will go away. Like...start a Jimmy appreciation thread/Penn State actually sucks thread and maybe that'll satisfy him?

I'd like to see that study(not questioning it)...but that does seem to be counterintuitive. I've argued that knowing going into the Tournament who is going to win hurts the sport. The years where ISU or OSU were a match away from an NCAA Title makes the Wrestling more interesting in my opinion and I assume for the general fan base. Especially when you're talking about watching the sessions other than the Finals. Without seeing the study, I could see it being applicable for a team like Alabama and a sport like CFB. Their dominance, but at least the hope that somebody knocks them off. Or WBB with UConn or Tenn. Now you have other teams in the mix and their viewership has gone waaay up(inflated this year due to Clark, but still up). Ultimately...I don't care. I'm going to watch and I'm actually intrigued to see if someone can pass Iowa in terms of team dominance and maybe put the best lineup ever out there.

I didn't see you say it anywhere...which is why I didn't reply to it. The term "silver platter," means it's just handed to them. Not that they're just paying guys to come there. I'm not a PSU fan dude(I've ALSO said I don't think this is good for the sport in general). I just find your logic fundamentally flawed. You're using ONE ranking reference from what may as well be the stone age as compared to now. I believe you're wrong and I think you realize that, particularly in relation to Alger, but just in general. "Top 10," back then. That's just a guess of guys at that weight. NOW it's guys who are Wrestling each other REGULARLY. A guy like Clayton Whiting would have been #1 coming in and beating an Iowa starter before his Sr year in HS. He was the...what, 20th ranked recruit? You had one FRACTION of the information available to create a "rankings" system. Again, I just don't believe you believe the rankings today and the rankings from pre-internet are even remotely comparable. Now...if you want to talk about the classes that PSU has coming in...THAT is different and that is getting a little ridiculous. That's almost like OSU's '22 class but in back to back years. Especially if Hopke ends up there.

I knew you couldn't just transfer within conference twice in two years, but wasn't sure on the exact rules. But...hypothetically, lets say Nagao graduates. He's free NOW to transfer again, correct(and this is just a hypothetical, only using him because...we're talking about him). Also, these All American's transferring are making a lot of noise because they're immediately filling a hole in someone's lineup...this year even moreso as you've got two potential NCs who MIGHT be transferring into the overwhelming favorite to win the 2024 team title(and '25, '26, '27, '28....) But of it's obviously almost immaterial if you can't recruit the HS kids. You have to be able to build that core for the guys to want to come train there.

I'm kinda at the point right now where I just want to see him at PSU. I wanna see how ridiculous we can make this! I want an NCAA Finals as a duel meet where PSU wins 21-12!

You keep saying this while ignoring...Gable wasn't the only coach recruiting him, NOR was he the only coach in the driveway. He WAS however the coach that convinced the kid from the family that had very little money to turn down the full ride for a 40%. And sure, it helped he was from Iowa. It also helped that Gable had access to plane to fly out and recruit Wrestlers whenever he wanted. Lots of things helped Iowa after Gable built their program up, but it seems as though you REALLY just need it to be this story of a bunch of rag tag Wrestlers who weren't any good until Dan Gable put his magic hands on him and made them GREAT...whereas PSU, they're the bag guys in this story! They don't work or develop their Wrestlers, it's all just handed to them on a silver platter! The way these recruiting rankings were put together back then...if you can't see how inherently flawed they'd be just based on the tools at hand, then I can't help you(but I don't think you want to be helped). Iowa was great. They dominated the sport. They're STILL the #2 program...it just isn't close right now.

It's not looking back. It's look AT THE TIME and seeing a 3X State Champ, JR National Champ who had two coaches in his driveway and thinking...the Asics All American team is not the ultimate authority on who the top ranked Wrestlers were and that JUUUUST maybe a time before the internet and the recruiting showcases and the other National Tournaments, one Wrestler not showing up on one list is less indicative of how good of a recruit he was than the coaches who were AT HIS HOUSE trying to sign him the minute he was eligible to sign. But...go back to your schooling!

Same here. If you want to argue that Royce Alger(of all the Wrestlers) wasn't a top recruit because it makes you feel like you REALLY earned it and PSU isn't...whatever. Bottom line is Penn State is absolutely destroying the field.

I'm starting to see why the US has slipped so far in education...

Ok...I ACTUALLY provided facts. Dan Gable didn't know who Tom Ryan was. Tom Ryan showed up at Iowa as a walk on to Wrestle for Gable and ended up in the National Finals. And that you showed me a list of All-American's and Royce Alger wasn't on it simply only tells me that one list...is a comically bad one. Again, verbal with UNI for a full scholarship. Iowa shows up with 40% 15 minutes before signing day...before MIDNIGHT on signing day with the UNI coach in the driveway, and Alger flips to Iowa. That should all you need to know. But for some strange reason, you need it to have been tougher for Iowa? I don't know. I'm still waiting for those class rankings you promised. All you did was show the AA teams by weight and the first two I looked at had Iowa Wrestlers in there and absolutely ZERO class rankings.

Ok...so lets say Royce Alger wasn't a top recruit. He had two D1 coaches at his house 15 minutes before Midnight and Dan Gable thought he was a big enough recruit to personally go there and try and convince him to flip from UNI to Iowa...and he did it. He didn't even have to recruit Brinzer or Ryan(I didn't know he didn't recruit Brinzer, just taking your word on that one).

Dude...you're starting to sound like LBJ here. What are you talking about?

In June 1989, Ryan turned his back on a scholarship and drove from New York to Iowa. He entered the wrestling room as a hopeful walk-on for the Hawkeyes. "Who are you?" Gable asked. "I'm Tom. I go to Syracuse, but I'm going to transfer here," Ryan replied. "Well," said Gable, "you're not going to get any better sitting there." Gable told Ryan to work out with twin brothers Troy and Terry Steiner, both national champs. https://www.dispatch.com/story/sports/college/2015/12/17/ohio-state-wrestling-coach-tom/23771442007/ You can highly doubt it, but it's a pretty well known story for an Iowa fan to have never heard. The rest of this..."they weren't even 4Xers." So what? They were two sport starts...right. Instead of the famous specialization that went on in the 1980s? It kinda is though...with all due deference to Wrestling USA Magazine, I stand behind all my points and I think you're just guessing at some of yours. TJ Williams...committed when Gable was the coach. TJ Williams committed to Gable because he saw the success they had and he wanted to have that same type of success. That he's a JUCO is a ridiculous response to me. So what? Take Messenbrink and Kerkvliet off your lists if you're going to dismiss someone because they didn't committ to the school immediately out of College.

I don't want to take this totally off topic, but this is like a "Guns don't kill people, people kill people." Ok...sure. But the gun also helps. Isn't Religion QUITE often the reason FOR the people killing people? Certainly in a historical sense, but even today...it's a pretty big deal. Things are quite a bit different now though. A cartoon insulting Jesus would have gotten you killed 500 years ago...now it's called Family Guy(or the Simpsons or Ricky and Marty or whatever it is).

And this came from Mitchell Messenbrink you say?

What site are you using here? That Royce Alger isn't on there is telling. Gable certainly considered him a top recruit, as did ISU. I think this is an apples to oranges thing, but even with that, Barry Davis, Ed and Lou Banach, TJ Williams, these were all some of the best recruits in the Country and they all wanted to go to Iowa. Didn't Ryan just show up at Iowa and tell Gable he wanted to come out for the team? That's a pretty nice guy to just show up at your doorstep and ask to come Wrestle for you. You have actual Wrestling showcases now that you didn't have in the whole time Gable was there, but he was definitely getting premiere talent. You're comparing era's of Wrestling that were just WAY too different, but at a time when there was less Wrestling coverage than there is now, not only do I not buy the premise that Iowa didn't get the best Wrestlers, but I also don't get why this is a point of contention. BOTH programs built themselves into the type of powerhouse that the best athletes WANTED to Wrestle at.

We'll see. It's really just 2 or 3 Wrestlers to be a top 10 team. Last time I can recall Edinboro being a top 10 team would PROBABLY be when they had King at '65, Dubuque at '25 and I'm guessing maybe 2 other AAs. That's still well within reach. There HAVE been teams this dominant before. PSU has yet to put together a run like Iowa did in '83 or '97(though I think they're going to). I don't know how Cornell is a powerhouse given the disadvantages they have...or how PSU wasn't ALWAYS dominant. It's really no different than CFB, but there's a larger pool of teams that can win it year to year. I know a HS coach who has won multiple State Titles and he has his teams celebrate each Conference Championship(they went like...14 years and 120 some duels without losing) and every Regional Title(probably won more of those than Conf Titles) because he didn't want his kids thinking the only thing worth celebrating was a State Title. I think a good coach applies that College. You celebrate an ACC, Ivy, B12, MAC title, celebrate NQs. We take more of a Macro view, but a really close friend of mine had a kid win a D2 Title. That was a monumental accomplishment. So it doesn't have to be JUST about NCAA Team Titles...even if that's what we're going to focus on here on the boards. If that was the case, people would have been in awe the last decade. PSU APPEARS to be reaching a whole other level. They're competing against themselves at this point and it looks like they're kicking their own ass from the last decade.