Leaderboard

WKN and SocraTease -- Good discussion and beneficial to anyone interested in wrestlers being honored. When I first came up with the concept back in 1994, I sat down with Dan Hodge (my first book was "Two Guys Named Dan" in 1976 and we became very good friends) and told him of my plans to create something similar to the Heisman Trophy, to draw more media attention and to give college wrestlers something extra to shoot for. Dan endorsed the idea and said if I named it after him, he would like pinning to be an essential part. In 1956, Dan won three national titles (collegiate, freestyle and Greco-Roman) in two weeks time by pinning all 13 foes. I quickly agreed that pinning would be a main factor. But since then, Bryan Van Kley (who bought WIN from me many years ago) and I have tried to "keep up with the times" by including dominance to mean techs and majors, as well as pins. And we consult with many former coaches and leaders of the sport who are on the voting committee and try to listen to what fans are saying (WKN and JB, in particular) and some of my longtime friends who have been involved with the sport for over half a century. Bryan and I are proud that over 20,000 fans vote on line each year and that all the colleges that have a winner play it up big, both at the annual wrestling banquet and at a football game in the fall, often with 70,000 fans in attendance. And we greatly appreciate our sponsor Asics. The goal was always to make wrestling more visible and to honor those who excel at Mankind's Oldest Sport. -- Mike Chapman

Posting the scoreboard was completely unnecessary. Completely. Unnecessary.

Yep - or in other words, round 1.

Mean Gene gave you the clues... "net value" Goal: Remove illegal alien population in the country Plan: Stop inbound illegal aliens + deport current illegal aliens Stop inbound illegal aliens Trump: Jan 21–31, 2025: under 600 daily apprehensions. Feb 2025: ~360 daily. Biden: Dec 2023 peak: 11,000 daily apprehensions. Dec 2024: ~1,500 daily. Key note: At Biden’s peak, more illegal aliens entered in a day than in Trump’s early months. Deport current illegal aliens Trump: 500–1,000 daily deportations. Biden: 700–1,500 daily deportations. Key note: Biden deported more total illegal aliens, but Trump’s approach is flattening or reducing the population, while it grew 2x–3x+ under Biden.

For me 5 titles would be the answer to a trivia question rather than something that separates Starocci from the other four-timers. It is undeniably difficult to win a fifth title (or any title), but it was impossible for the other four-timers because it was not possible. That Starocci is given an opportunity that they were not, does not elevate him above them. Similarly, three-timers in the no-freshman era are not definitionally below four-timers. We can argue whether any of them would have won as freshman, but they were never given the opportunity. A similar situation already exists. "Who is the only six time NCAA wrestling champion?" is a fun trivia question.

Jimmy stop replying to every post you always make zero sense. I loved this sight when you weren’t on it.

That doesn’t mean anything. Your wife is that and she’s 190

knox's move is from having both boots in. dc's spladle is from hooking his near leg with metclafs near leg then going over top. his right leg is out in the open. knox still has his boot in they arent the same

This is an age old practice used in the courts. They were called eunuchs. Nobody considered them women. They were there to guard the harem and not take for themselves. mspart

Buying future votes and elections.

dont disagree, but how can leftists be for giving immigrants that money, but not citizens

That, PSU exhaustion or even boredom with their greatness. Right, but you were basically arguing that there's an assumption any would have won #5 had they been given the chance. I was just pointing out...I don't know if that's true in an admittedly disingenuous argument by showing some of their margin of victories. If Lee wins a title the year before the Ramos loss and that was HIS 5th year or in this case, his prospective 5th year, we'd all say he'd obviously have won. Nobody in that weight could have touched him. Dan Gable... Also, why this is all hypothetical as Parker Keckheisen absolutely CAN beat Starocci. I think there'd be 4-5 bigger upsets in the last decade than PK beating Cstarr.

Yeah...Ramos should have had 2NF. That's the only questionable call. The Oliver call wasn't. John Smith doesn't even argue that call because, again, that was a point of emphasis that year. The next year, it's 2 for Oliver...I think. The further away from it, the more I forget how they changed the rules. But even in that Ramos-Stieber match, Stieber was 5-0 vs Ramos, he gave up ONE TD and he still wins that match with or without that NF. He won 7-4. They wanted 2 NF. I don't think you have a sketchy 4-time Champ. You have lots of calls that are close. Yianni's TD vs McKenna? Was THAT two? Maybe at the end of the 2nd period, but then you still have a 3rd period in which McKenna is down 1 instead of up 1 and it's a whole different 3rd period. I also don't think your "Mt Rushmore" even has to come from the 4X Champs(or 3X Champs in 3 years) as I've said. Spencer Lee was as dominant as any of them, Gable(really either, but Stephenson) was as dominant as anyone(save for Cael). Lincoln Mcllravy, I don't think any of these guys, save for Cael was immune from a fluke match, move, whatever and then losing a match. Askren lost to one guy who just had his number and he dominated Jake Herbert who was a stud and dominant 2X Champ. But I've already made this point. It's so easy to lose...how do you not get at least a little credit for doing it a FIFTH time? Not saying you have to put him in your top 4. My top 4 is different every time I'm asked with only #1 there every time(and probably Dake, but again, Dake is more similar to Starroci than anyone wants to give him credit for).

Like these policies ?

It would be good to get $5000 from our government, but that will not help the deficit. I am not really in favor of this one if we are seriously trying to reduce the deficit. I don't see the end logic here. Let's get the country out of a deficit first. mspart

Just remember he is smack dab in the middle of he political spectrum as he has reminded us so often. mspart

As for wrestlers winning the award without being undefeated, Brent Metcalf did that in 2008.

Damn bro. You didn't have to peer into my soul like that.

He could be placed anywhere in the bracket and become everyone’s “bad draw”. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I replied on the other thread… GAME ON! Sunday sounds good for the draft. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Why am I not surprised….

Some place like International Falls, Minnesota

You just like to make stuff up, don't you?

Carter is an awesome wrestler! styles only determine a popularity contest. Winning % has a numerical factor that speaks for itself. there is quite a bit of CSDS in the population.

The weight has a returning national champ and a returning finalist who beat Spencer Lee. I don't think the weight is weak. Might not be very deep but the top 2 are pretty legit.

and Stieber fought off the TD...

He could be a bigger Tommy Rowlands type. Part Rowlands, part Kerry McCoy. If he's all in on Wrestling, he could be the biggest recruit to commit from this class.

He doesn't deserve any hate. The hate he gets is from that Oliver match and I know that year at the D1, in the coaches meeting, they talked about that EXACT position and how you had to get your head out for it to be two. Stieber kept it buried and won. So he lost as a Freshmen, then one match to Zain. I think it's insane any of these 4X Champs get any hate.

i mean, Carter has less losses than Dake by half. He's going for his fourth straight undefeated season. Logan Stieber has two. His win streak is second longest among 4xers to Cael.

5 is not greater than 4 is not greater than 3. and yet every single comparison begins with 'how many titles did he have' got it. y'all are overthinking this one. i'm not saying that 5 titles makes Carter Starocci 'a better wrestler than Cael.' i'm objecting to the above post that says 'no one takes five seriously'. it will be the first thing everyone talks about after NCAA's this year. and in 2065 when people look at record books it will be outstanding.

Because you cannot know what any other four timer would do in year five. Presumably someone who has never lost a title would not lose the fifth bite at the apple. Of course, we are assuming the same for Starocci here, so why not the others?

what that match (Angelo vs CStarr) told/reminded me is that with enough bias, even knowledgable fans will color a 'close match' as an 'almost lost'. there's a sea of difference. and you know it.

No one serious takes 5 seriously.

It sounds jealous.

You may have broken our dysfunctional hearts but we'll keep posting about it!!

We thought they were coming here for the sumo girls like above

Folkstyle on the brain syndrome: A dysfunction prevalent among NCAA folkstyle wrestling fans that manifests with delusions regarding Senior Men's Freestyle wrestlers from foreign countries. These unshakable beliefs, completely detached from reality, include the idea that Senior Men's Freestyle wrestlers, including world champions, from what may be considered currently the most dynamic national team, would interrupt their international careers to enroll in US universities and compete in D1 wrestling at the university level. Some of the more delusional patients, many of which also experience anxiety, depression or hallucinations, participate in bizarre discussions and debates regarding which universities these international wrestlers would attend. Ono isn't going to attend PSU, Iowa, or Oklahoma State. He is at the NLWC. It's a good experience for him. Otoguro isn't going to attend Iowa. He is at the Hawkeye Wrestling Club. These guys are students of wrestling. They love the sport. They see the visit to a top-tier US Wrestling Club as a growth and learning experience. Please seek professional help.

Huh? Hendrickson is an age level world champ. Kerk is a returning undefeated NCAA champion. Shultz is a former finalist, Feldman and Slav are returning AA's.

I wish I shared Nolf's overflowing confidence in a Spencer win (he even said a tech was possible). I'll pick Spencer because it is in my contract but I'm very nervous about this match. Ono's speed and low level attacks seem tailor made to beat Spencer.

Found this on youtube. Nolf talks about his experience rolling with Spencer, his observations on both Spencer and Ono, and his prediction. Very interesting stuff.

Mark Hall has a very good case. He had to deal with Zahid three years and got screwed out of his fourth year which he likely would have won. I still don't understand how the seniors that year got screwed out of their 4th year of eligibility and everyone else gained a year.

When someone says “ I am/was a state champ, National Champ or Olympic Champ”, there is no S on the end. State is the correct term.

Definitely agree

Carter is 1-0 against Keckeisen so the question would be reversed. And yes, Parker can beat him. Will he? I do not believe so. Leading up to the NWCA classic I saw a lot of people picking Parker to win that. I think people are fueled by hopium on this one.

Just like the match they already wrestled. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Great point. He's had a consistent career. In duals like these we should expect a Holy Sh*t moment. My bet would be the Fish/Teemer match. That's the one that could have fireworks.

Agreed. He hasn't beaten any top 10 guys and his best win was 8-2 over Bockman, his main "claim to fame" so far was a 2 point loss to Starocci where he created zero offense and got pushed around the whole match. I think he's probably a legit top 10 guy, but there's no way to be sure at this point.

Gotta give Starocci credit, 15 team points against Ruth, Smith and Allred in particular is impressive. I believe even this match was 17-4 before the DQ

That is a hilariously bad take. Starocci had four takedowns against a guy on rollerskates. What about four takedowns is "without really trying to score"? What is Ruth supposed to do? Try to score. He was the only one not attempting to score.

AND... Little Rock's Nasir Bailey turns the tide on Zeth in their 2nd dual meeting, 8-2 (1st was the NWCA Nation Duals on 1/10/25... Romney w/ the fall @ 4:14.) Zeth Romney was leading 2-1 w/30 second left in the 3rd pd when Nasir Bailey nabbed a TD + 3NF late in the period. As of this past Tuesday... Zeth was ranked 2nd to Nasir's 9th. (Yeah... go ahead and put it in the "upset" pile. ) D3