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OK. So who won? Well, its complicated. There are at least three ways you can answer that question, so let's look at all three, shall we. Most Correct Matches You can only get ten right. So in the name of symmetry there were ten posters who got ten right. I want to thank @TylerDurden, @Techfall, @PortaJohn, @Nittanychris, @ionel, @CGriff, @AZ_wrestling, @666, PSUWrestling2425 (on HVI) and psu0408 (HVI) for keeping things neat and tidy. But wait. It turns out you can get ten correct and still not get them all right. psu0408 was feeling his oats a bit and added an eleventh category (which he got wrong - sorry, no points deductions - EXCEPT FORE YOU), so I am sorry, but he is eliminated from the competition. The True Iowa Homer Award goes to... Lets pause a moment to recognize a true individualist. In this age of social media driven peer pressures it can be so difficult to swim against the tide of popular opinion. So when a true hero emerges, we must celebrate him. While @Mr. PeanutButter may have lost this particular competition by traditional standards, he is not a hidebound traditionalist. His bravery has won over the heart of every true Iowa wrestling fan. And what could be more important than that? Well, bragging rights, of course. But "True Iowa Homer" is probably second best? It Is A Team Sport, Dummy (I have heard so many times. Mostly the dummy part but...) Award At the end of the day it comes down to the team score. So who was closest to the pin? As previously reported, our own TylerDurden takes the prize. Seer of seers, prognosticator of prognosticators. For the rest of the year all his predictions have the weight of law. He shall not be questioned. When his statements contradict known facts, it is the known fact that shall give way. Look on TylerDurden's Works, ye Mighty, and despair! The Lee Corso Award For Attention To Detail (or maybe it will be named the Two Wrongs Don't Make A Right Award) Award Ya know...about this team thing....isn't the final score the sum of the individual scores? And shouldn't we see who came closest there? Lee and I are glad you asked., If we sum of the individual deviations we get a better sense of who was "right" by not allowing two wrong answers to offset each other. @Techfall, step to the front of the class and take your bow. Wisdom (?) Of The Crowds Not so much. Unlike in years past the crowd was not very wise this year. With a final predicted score of 25.5 to 7.7 the Iowa portion was fine, but lack of faith in PSU to ring the bonus point cash register is frankly disappointing. Anyone using us to bet the spread (20.5, I think) would have taken a big L on the bet. We promise to do better next time. And as always, thank you all who participated. The Crowd not previously mentioned: @VakAttack @Spencerlee @PSUDad97 @MidwestMan @meZYNbrink @JPack @Interviewed_at_Weehawken @Hillbilly Jim @Gage @Dogbone @BruceyB @BIGTENFANBOY @BarSeries @BAC @Truzzcat @RawDog @Ragu @Pish @Pinnacle @nhs67 @Le duke @Jimmy Cinnabon @Husker_Du (though you made me work for it) @Gus @Gene Mills Fan @flyingcement @fishbane @CHROMEBIRD @bnwtwg @BloodRound @Barracuda141 @1032004 @RandolphTJones Same time next year (B1G schedule permitting)?

Should be a very good dual with some B1G Tournament seeds on the line No. 12 Rutgers (11-4, 3-2) 125: 10/12 Dean Peterson (16-3) -OR- Ayden Smith (4-4) 133: 9/9 Dylan Shawver (14-5) 141: 13/15 Joseph Olivieri (13-4) -OR- Joe Fongaro (4-4) 149: 20/26 Andrew Clark (17-8) 157: 30/26 Conner Harer (13-6) 165: 25/28 Anthony White (12-7) -OR- Andrew Barbosa (5-3) 174: 21/20 Jackson Turley (13-6) 184: 18/17 Shane Cartagena-Walsh (17-7) 197: 17/17 John Poznanski (11-6) -OR- PJ Casale (7-8) HWT: 8/8 Yaraslau Slavikouski (13-4) -OR- John O'Donnell (7-3) No. 8 Minnesota (7-1, 3-1) 125: 9/7 Cooper Flynn (11-2) -OR- Brandon Morvari (4-4) 133: 18/13 Tyler Wells (9-2) -OR- Blake Beissel (6-6) 141: 8/8 Vance VomBaur (17-2) 149: 25/24 Drew Roberts (9-3) -OR- Theo Cha (5-7) 157: 8/9 Tommy Askey (17-2) -OR- Charlie Millard (11-1) 165: 11/15 Andrew Sparks (16-4) -OR- Tim Stapleton (3-7) 174: 25/24 Clayton Whiting (12-6) 184: 4/4 Max McEnelly (14-0) 197: 9/10 Isaiah Salazar (13-3) 285: 1/1 Gable Steveson (7-0)

They lost to ASU in 2020 also.

Media who#e

This was his final event. Hawks was still out and I'm guessing Sinclair really wanted to go here and test himself at 184.

I listened to the Iowa Hawkeyes radio broadcast of the match. During the 149 match, when Parco was fading under SVN’s assault, Mark Ironside said, “I know he’s in better shape than that.” He couldn’t imagine an Iowa wrestler being outconditioned by anyone (ignoring the fact that PACE is literally the thing SVN does best). The entire program is stuck in the 1990s. Coaches, fans, announcers. Just after 56:00 in for the start of the discussion re: Parco. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

At 174 #10 Garrett Thompson (Ohio) majored #7 Alex Cramer (CMU) 13-1 Thompson was 0-2 vs Cramer this year

its so true and its gonna be so lame....

at NCAA tournament, I found 2 wins by Cael over future champs. In 1999 semi-final at 184, he pinned Brad Vering in 1:59. Vering won it 197 the next season. In 2000 quarter final, he won 20-5 over Rob Rohn. Rohn won it at 184 in 2002.

Lets pursue the circularity of your argument. Starocci beating Griffith and Lewis is clearly unimpressive because neither were good enough to beat Starocci.

No worries. Iowa really did get screwed by the 2020 cancellation, they likely would have won that year in addition to 2020, which would have been the only time since 2011 that PSU went 2 years without winning. So considering 2021 was “only” 4 seasons ago, that does kinda show how quick things can change with PSU now being so dominant.

Eggs =/=

I meant current or future NCAA champs. 1. I don't know about Pat Smith's wins. 2. Cael didn't beat anyone who went on to win a National title? 3. Dake beat Molinaro, St. John, and DT 4. Stieber beat J.O. and Ramos 5. Yanni beat Dean Heil 6. Aaron Brooks beat Keckeisen 7. Starocci beat Griffith, and Lewis So of 7 four-time champs, 5 beat either former or eventual national champions (maybe 6 if Smith did as well). So typically, 4x champs do beat NCAA champions. I'm surprised that you of all people wouldn't agree that the years of eligibility and the field you compete against are a major factor in how many titles an individual wins. Winning 4 titles doesn't necessarily mean you were better than someone who won two but ran into a buzz saw and didn't win 4.

I always find the "if he hadn't lost, he would have won" argument compelling

DeSanto: pushes RBY to the edge : "He's stalling!!!1!" Mr. Hollywood: pushes all match without a single offensive attempt : "Well ACHTUALLY, pushing your opponent around without shooting IS offense and should be rewarded!!!" I guess, like all things with Carter, it's just an act. In this case, it's the act of making it look like you're sorta trying to score that should be enough to give you the match.

https://insidemedicine.substack.com/p/breaking-news-cdc-orders-mass-retraction?fbclid=IwY2xjawILzeZleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHZPe5qQBEFBGDkb7F0pDZhWazMFNPMkoSBpW1XRrRHq0UpEhWUexq8rRZg_aem_lSAbm4R0ZOdbHqcT2PJQMg https://gizmodo.com/cdc-ordered-to-scrub-website-of-words-like-transgender-and-lgbt-2000557177 And that's just the most easily accessible part of the reporting. "Forbidden terms"! Truly the stupidest, most cartoonist timeline.

Have to think a recent dual result may have swung him unfortunately. I will be pulling for Okie state but I am leaning PSU given the time of the announcement, Perhaps he really loved the atmosphere at Rutgers though.

fwiw Demeray dropped back to 150 in 1992 and won NCAA tournament while Smith was winning his 3rd title at 158. That year Smith beat Ray Miller in the finals, Miller would win title next season at 167. Smith also beat eventual 3x champ Joe Williams his senior year (1994) by TF in the dual (Joe was a freshman).

I was impressed that Volk came back after getting AA last year beating Braeden Davis and exposing Davis's inner temper tantrum. Pretty sad Volk recently got injured and is now out for the year. Weather is a little over stated for Laramie. Sure it can get brutal but visit Minneapolis, Lincoln or Iowa City a few days later when the front moves thru. If a recruit is looking for bright lights and big city night life then Laramie is not it (along with Iowa City, Stillwater and Ames). Any kid who's an outdoorsman knows Laramie is perfectly positioned for world class hiking, camping, fishing and hunting within an hours drive. (skiing is probably a no-no for wrestler knees) Branch has embraced Wyoming culture with some unique duals at the Frontier Days locale and a private dual at a ranch. https://cowboystatedaily.com/2023/11/24/battle-at-the-barn-wrestling-match-was-the-most-wyoming-thing-ever/ https://county10.com/wyoming-wrestling-opens-with-dual-at-cheyennes-frontier-park/ Branch is doing fine at UW. I'm sure the NIL will be a constant hurdle. (Wyoming needs to get out of FBS football and join the Dakota, Montana and Idaho schools in FCS)

Found it.

I think you’re messing with his team / guy.

Much like Trump was the original RINO, and was all democrat until he decided he wanted to run for president and new he could get enough minions to follow….Hitler was a GINO….German in name only. Homeboy was an Austrian, even fought for them in WWI when one of our boys had a chance to take him. He only became “German” when he wanted political power and knew he could get a bunch of minions to follow talking about “MAKE GERMANY GREAT”! So you may be on to something. Not for nothing, say what you want, but Elon is a fascinating listen. You don’t have to like/agree with everything he says….but dude has some brainpower.

https://www.wrestlestat.com/compare/dual/34/iowa/57/oklahoma-state I think I’d agree with these winners, maybe one less bonus point for OSU for a 1 point win Spratley Dec Cruz 3-0 OSU Ayala Dec Wittcraft/Hughes 3-3 Jamison Dec Block 6-3 OSU (wrestlestat has Jamison with a major which could happen) Parco Dec Young 6-6 (Iowa could have a shot for bonus here) Teemer Dec Fish 9-6 Iowa (Iowa could get bonus if Fish tries something stupid) Caliendo Dec Amine 12-6 Hamiti Dec Kennedy 12-9 (some may pick bonus here but they wrestled twice in 2023 and Hamiti won 9-6 and 4-3) Plott Dec Arnold 12-12 Buchanan Dec Surber 15-12 Iowa Hendrickson maj Kueter 16-15 OSU I feel like the only match that wouldn’t be considered a pretty significant upset if the other guy won is 165, as Caliendo’s two wins over Amine have been in SV. Could come down to bonus points

I think the Brands' boys are legends. World champs, multiple time NCAA champions, and successful coaches. They may be crazy, but those boys are legends in my mind. Also, Oklahoma State has looked a lot better this year, primarily due to transfers. When those guys are gone, what happens next year? We'll see if DT can maintain the enthusiasm long enough to truly rebuild OSU, and it ain't going to be easy. Have you seen "The Best of Times"? During halftime of the alumni football game a guy gives the team an inspirational speech. As the team files out Kurt Russell's guy says "that should keep them going through the kickoff". That's what DT reminds me of so far: he's inspirational to the guys wrestling for him, but how far can that take them in the long run? I'm hoping he takes them all the way to the top, it's time for another team to rule the roost for awhile.

Did he really?

As of now, Ferrari would be my pick. I think Plott is really going to struggle to get a takedown on him, and I think Ferrari gets one.

Hmm ... Goes to show that grok , Gemini, etc make mistakes. My bad. Thanks for the correction.

Agree, I don’t think dynasties are bad for the sport. Some might even argue it creates more of a rooting interest from fans of teams not involved because it will likely turn into everyone else rooting against PSU (not that they dislike them, but just to root for the underdog).

I think it will be Plott also, but I wouldn’t call the Minnesota dual a gimme for them. Wrestlestat has it 18-12 but I think a couple Iowa guys could be on upset watch. Of course wrestlestat has them losing to OSU 17-15 due to bonus, and I agree with who they’re projecting to win and I feel like almost all weights have a fairly heavy favorite. So winning 184 would likely give Iowa the dual. I also think Tom cares more about beating them.

I was simply stating that being a 4x champ has factors outside of how good a college wrestler is. The field you compete against is as big of a factor as any. How many NCAA champions did Cael beat in his career? I'm not removing Cael from being crowned the greatest, but he arguably dominated the weakest field of any of the four timers. Other than the GOAT himself, which four timer boasts these statistics? "Taylor graduated with 134 wins and three losses, 50 pins, 42 technical falls, and 29 major decisions."

Pretty sure history does not say anything. Its never happened correct?

No

From Jay Hammond at NWHOF: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Bm3Q-fNFYFhwQYfCl1yRP9rBxjBInznoSX_iJtL9y0c/edit?usp=sharing

It’s going to be vs Plott, and I think he beats him.

Generally in aviation accidents their are minimum of chain of three mistakes/issues. If eliminate one of the three can save the event. The current ones I see from info available: 1) tower was understaffed, one controller was dealing with both the helicopter and the AA flight, it was still busy time of the day/night 2) American Airlines CJ (AA) was shooting the ILS to runway 01 after obtaining visual the tower had them circle to land on 33. Not necessarily a mistake, happens all the time, but with Blackhawk (BH) traffic coming down the river east side route then why send AA up the river over the route head on with the BH. 3) BH was asked if had visual and confirmed had visual. Again happens all the time its then his job to maintain visual separation. However with ~300 mph closer rate and other traffic, lights etc down there at 200' how do we (the tower) know he has visual on the correct traffic target. 4) Appears BH may have been too high, should've been 200' might've been 400' Break the chain of errors. (1) If two are working the problem instead of one maybe they see the conflict earlier, stop the BH or clear the AA straight in on 01 and hold ground departure and no accident. (2) If AA is given clear to land 01 or says "unable 33" then there is no circle toward the BH route on east side an no accident. (3) If BH is given immediate hold (instead of visual) and or instructed immediate decent to 200' then maybe not accident but AA is still circle to 33 and descend and might be going over top of BH at 400 so only 200' clearance - not good. (4) If BH at proper altitude maybe no accident but still a near miss given the circle to land visual 33. Given the closer rate numbers 1 and 2 above seem most critical to me at this point but the black boxes will give us much better info.

I'll just throw this out there for consideration.

Was before my time but looking at Iowa’s historic results they seem comparable and probably even better at least during a few stretches so for that reason I wouldn’t say PSU’s dominance is “the death of college wrestling.” For example in the 80’s they had a streak of 7 years with at least 8 AA’s, including 6 straight years of having 5+ finalists: ‘79-‘80: 8 AA’s (1-1-2-3-3-4-7-8) ’80-‘81: 9 AA’s (1-1-2-2-2-5-7-7-7) ’81-‘82: 8 AA’s (1-1-1-2-2-3-6-7) ’82-‘83: 9 AA’s (1-1-1-1-2-3-4-5-5) ’83-‘84: 8 AA’s (1-2-2-2-2-4-5-6) ’84-‘85: 9 AA’s (1-1-2-2-2-4-5-5-5) ’85-‘86: 8 AA’s (1-1-1-1-1-2-4-5) https://hawkeyesports.com/news/2004/06/16/all-americans

Ferrari just had a bad plan to start the match. He went to the edge, well past the edge, in the hopes of not giving Starocci room for a TD while giving himself room to counter any shot. I put it down to too much respect for Starocci. He grew into that match. If he had realized sooner he could compete with Starocci, so that he does not get the well earned stalls, then perhaps he can win it. No guarantee, but perhaps. He certainly looked strong enough, fast enough, and flexible enough. We still do not know if he can get through Starocci's elite defense. And maybe if he took early shots he would have gotten countered. But maybe not. Unfortunately for him there does not look like there will ever be a rematch to find out.

some idiot will get pinned

Or you're just past the 15 minute edit limit

Lol. Not having Kyle Dake on there at all should have this thread deleted.

Elon Musk endorsed the AFD party, the most right-wing extremist party in Germany, which also has close ties to the Nazis. Nothing to see here. Moving along. Just a coincidence.