Inevitable change is coming

[Maxwell Smart]

It happened at PSU and OK ST.  Everyone knew it had to happen, but the rabid fan base resisted till the end. Moving on from a legend, John Smith, made it harder. When it was finally done, a breath of fresh air spread over the program and the fan base reacted with pent up joy. Posters have opined for years that the coaching wasn't getting the job done, and the sycophants were there to aggressively defend. The great times and the associated feelings are hard to forget. When will a change at Iowa come?  It's more inevitable than ever and will be better for Iowa and the sport.

[WrestlingRasta]

Doug Schwab 

[Ragu]

Not gonna happen 

[Pinnacle]

Kevin Dresser. He is in the Iowa Hall of Fame and he likes and tough wrestling. 

[ionel]

I only opened this thread cause thought it an announcement about Jimmy C moving on to bigger and better forums ... carry on.  

[MPhillips]

2 hours ago, Maxwell Smart said:

Posters have opined for years that the coaching wasn't getting the job done, and the sycophants were there to aggressively defend.

Ohio State fans...

[Mr. PeanutButter]

If you don't want to read the rambling paragraphs I mashed on my phone below, the "too long, didn't read" version is: I would be eggcited by a coaching staff if I was confident a realistic improvement was available.

 

Long version:

I would be onboard with a coaching change right now if there was an eggciting but realistic new option available (was eggcited by the David Taylor to Iowa rumors when they swirled around briefly) or if there was an eggsisting staff change that would guarantee equal or better results. 

Look, I'm not a Brands apologist. I think there are obvious deficiencies in the current staff makeup and when I look at Iowa wrestlers, even as an Iowa fan, I see weaknesses - relatively "poor" scrambling being one of them. Additionally, even though it's cool to have a long standing streak of getting wrestlers into the finals, consistently coming up short has just gotten eggstremely tiresome.

I also have to say that, although I've had very positive (albeit brief) interactions with TnT, and it is encouraging to see how positively the  wrestlers have spoken about the staff, particularly from this past season (but of course, not ignoring the many puzzling burned bridges from years past), the matside antics and weird post/pre match interviews are less than Gucci. 

I think Brands may have had his hands tied in regards to Bill Bassett's demands (if we can even believe what the pundits are putting out there as to the reason for the break up) but I can't help but think that Brands probably didn't navigate that tension with the most elegance.

NOW, with that out of the way, Im just not convinced there is a REALISTIC option out there right now that could step in and practically immediately improve on results - Iowa fans and boosters will not tolerate an 8th place finish. Lots of people like to poo poo the staff (within decent reasoning) and claim others could do it better but yet somehow conveniently manage to ignore the fact that no program outside of PSU has performed consistently better than Iowa. For a minute there, it looked like Ohio State was going to be the big number 2, but, although the future looks promising, they went through a really rough patch. That won't be tolerated at Iowa. There was a lot of hype and admiration for what NC State has been doing, but then they went ahead and had the worst collapse at NCAAs that I can remember 2 years ago. That won't fly at Iowa. Even Nebraska - the future looks very bright - but prior to this past year they had even worse shortcomings and disappointments at NCAAs than Iowa and were often the butt of jokes online.

So, for those calling for a change, I hear ya and I'm with ya. But who could actually step in and do better? 

[Maxwell Smart]

You make a lot of good points. Expectations are always high for the Hawkeyes, and they create anticipation when on the schedule. It feels like they should've had more individual success with the wrestlers they had the past couple years. Iowa is an essential part of wrestling but things don't seem or feel right. I'm not always right, it just seems that way.

[Rassling2]

3 hours ago, Maxwell Smart said:

It happened at PSU and OK ST.  Everyone knew it had to happen, but the rabid fan base resisted till the end. Moving on from a legend, John Smith, made it harder. When it was finally done, a breath of fresh air spread over the program and the fan base reacted with pent up joy. Posters have opined for years that the coaching wasn't getting the job done, and the sycophants were there to aggressively defend. The great times and the associated feelings are hard to forget. When will a change at Iowa come?  It's more inevitable than ever and will be better for Iowa and 

Edited 15 hours ago by Rassling2

[VakAttack]

2 hours ago, Mr. PeanutButter said:

If you don't want to read the rambling paragraphs I mashed on my phone below, the "too long, didn't read" version is: I would be eggcited by a coaching staff if I was confident a realistic improvement was available.

 

Long version:

I would be onboard with a coaching change right now if there was an eggciting but realistic new option available (was eggcited by the David Taylor to Iowa rumors when they swirled around briefly) or if there was an eggsisting staff change that would guarantee equal or better results. 

Look, I'm not a Brands apologist. I think there are obvious deficiencies in the current staff makeup and when I look at Iowa wrestlers, even as an Iowa fan, I see weaknesses - relatively "poor" scrambling being one of them. Additionally, even though it's cool to have a long standing streak of getting wrestlers into the finals, consistently coming up short has just gotten eggstremely tiresome.

I also have to say that, although I've had very positive (albeit brief) interactions with TnT, and it is encouraging to see how positively the  wrestlers have spoken about the staff, particularly from this past season (but of course, not ignoring the many puzzling burned bridges from years past), the matside antics and weird post/pre match interviews are less than Gucci. 

I think Brands may have had his hands tied in regards to Bill Bassett's demands (if we can even believe what the pundits are putting out there as to the reason for the break up) but I can't help but think that Brands probably didn't navigate that tension with the most elegance.

NOW, with that out of the way, Im just not convinced there is a REALISTIC option out there right now that could step in and practically immediately improve on results - Iowa fans and boosters will not tolerate an 8th place finish. Lots of people like to poo poo the staff (within decent reasoning) and claim others could do it better but yet somehow conveniently manage to ignore the fact that no program outside of PSU has performed consistently better than Iowa. For a minute there, it looked like Ohio State was going to be the big number 2, but, although the future looks promising, they went through a really rough patch. That won't be tolerated at Iowa. There was a lot of hype and admiration for what NC State has been doing, but then they went ahead and had the worst collapse at NCAAs that I can remember 2 years ago. That won't fly at Iowa. Even Nebraska - the future looks very bright - but prior to this past year they had even worse shortcomings and disappointments at NCAAs than Iowa and were often the butt of jokes online.

So, for those calling for a change, I hear ya and I'm with ya. But who could actually step in and do better? 

I think this is a great summation.  When the Taylor to Iowa rumors were swirling, i was pro.  Outside of him, I don't think there's a candidate that moves the needle that way available right now.  Even Burroughs, who has only just in the last month expressed any interest in coaching.

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

Spencer Lee for player-coach, ASAP.  I'm telling you, if Iowa waits too long Ohio State is going to make him a offer he can't refuse...

[Mr. PeanutButter]

A small part of my post got deleted earlier so I'll be brief: I have a very strong feeling that many of the boosters, deep down, are more comfortable being a near lock at 2nd-4th (and the rare 5th) than taking a gamble on the new and unknown. I believe I read a post on HR in the past where Bob claimed he would be "done when Tom's done" so whoever the next coach is better generate an elephant's worth of eggcitement in order to keep the cash flowing

[CHROMEBIRD]

I'm with Peebs. I like TnT as wrestlers and ambassadors to the sport, and love their commitment to their guys; my critique is with the coaching and culture at Iowa, as I don't believe "emulate Gable" works super well in today's environment. Would love to see whoever the next hc is, whenever that happens, to be an outsider who wasn't molded in and married to the Iowa Style as if it were gospel... or at least Iowa alums who've had enough of a change of scenery (Metcalf, DSJ, Ramos, etc.) to know what works/what doesn't and evolve Iowa Style.

All of that being said, people calling for Brands to step down over the BB thing need to get a grip. Imagine having so much juice as a hs recruit that you can get the head coach of a Top 3 program replaced. Foh with that.

[alex1fly]

 

1 hour ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

 

All of that being said, people calling for Brands to step down over the BB thing need to get a grip. Imagine having so much juice as a hs recruit that you can get the head coach of a Top 3 program replaced. Foh with that.

Iowa elicits a lot of feelings from both fans and non-fans, lol. It's kind of a funny characteristic for our sport. I enjoy watching the drama but don't care what happens to Iowa beyond wishing the Brands Bros weren't such emotional turds matside.

[VakAttack]

6 minutes ago, alex1fly said:

 

Iowa elicits a lot of feelings from both fans and non-fans, lol. It's kind of a funny characteristic for our sport. I enjoy watching the drama but don't care what happens to Iowa beyond wishing the Brands Bros weren't such emotional turds matside.

Which is crazy, that's my absolute favorite thing about them.  This is an entertainment product.  I've been less enthused by their on-the-mat product, but I'll admit to being pleasantly surprised with some improvements these last two years with on the mat production and style.

[Caveira]

It’s almost like.   Just almost.  This horse still has some life in it and hasn’t been beaten to death many times in the past.  

[BruceyB]

The Brands clearly have fallen behind several schools when it comes to high school recruiting. They have been bringing in basically 1 true blue-chip recruit each year, and that is obviously not a sustainable way to build a program. But who on the Iowa staff is going to excite a current HS recruit? You have Tom and Terry who are in their late 50s, and then you're getting recruited by Ryan Morningstar and Bobby Telford? Almost every major program has at least one assistant that brings more youth, recency, and excitment to their program. 

The Brands simply aren't good at managing relationships long-term. Ramos, Gilman, and Metcalf were about as ride-or-die Iowa style, Tom and Terry proteges while they were in college as they come. Now, all of them have personal issues with the Brands. This makes it difficult for the Brands to bring in more recent successful Hawkeyes to help their recruiting, because many of them tire from the environment and leave.

With that being said, I don't think that the Brands could very easily bring in outside up-and-coming assistants to Iowa. If you didn't go for the Brands recruiting pitch as a high-schooler, I doubt you'd have a lot of interest in going and coaching for TnT post-grad. 

It's hard to imagine that Iowa has the #6 recruiting class in 2024 #7 recruiting class in 2025, and #11 in 2026 (1 recruit).

SUMMARY: Say whatever you want about the Brands ability to develop, their recruiting hasn't been working since pre-2020, and if you can't recruit, you aren't going to be successful long-term. Iowa would be better of having any coach that can recruit right now than continuing forward with TnT.

TnT are losing the recruiting battle with the power, money, and prestige that the black and gold has in the wrestling community. It's hard to imagine any successful college coaches out there would fair worse in recruiting than the Brands have since 2018.

[Fletcher]

Problem is everyone's afraid to tell the Brands they're fired. They need Telford to deliver the news or maybe a football linebacker or TE.

[ionel]

30 minutes ago, Fletcher said:

Problem is everyone's afraid to tell the Brands they're fired. They need Telford to deliver the news or maybe a football linebacker or TE.

Spencer will do it ...or if not The Pastry.  

[bnwtwg]

Spencer Lee just took home an Olympic silver and is the odds-on favorite to win worlds this year.

Buchanan chose, on his own, to pick Iowa and they coached him up to a natty over a (holds nose) very game Focus and a likely 2-3x champ in Ryder (McEnally pending).

Ayala has made the finals twice. Not his fault he ran into the buzz saw known as Lucas Byrd, Illinois Athlete Of The Year.

Iowa won the team trophy in '21 and would have in '20 as well.

Thomas Gilman did nearly all his best work at HWC. Maybe if he stayed there he would not have attempted a merkle costing him potential Olympic gold.

Kueter chose wrestling over football in what was likely the most pivotal offseason of his football career, one that could cost him literally tens of millions of dollars if we play the what-if game.

The sky is not falling. Iowa is still Iowa. I would gladly take Iowa's results and outlook.

[RawDog]

Ben Askren is the next game changer head coach.  Praying he has a speedy full recovery.  He should be the obvious first choice to replace TnT if Iowa decides to move on.

I think TnT do a good job coaching what they got. They just can't recruit to save their lives. Let's be honest, the only reason they landed Angelo is because other schools didn't pursue him due to his last name.  I suspect they only got spencer because Penn State already had suriano at the time.  Drake just happened to grow up in iowas backyard.  What other elite recruits have they actually recruited?

It's just so frustrating that a major program like Iowa is so horrible at recruiting.  You would think elite high schoolers would be lining up to go to Iowa.

[RawDog]

3 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

Spencer Lee just took home an Olympic silver and is the odds-on favorite to win worlds this year.

Buchanan chose, on his own, to pick Iowa and they coached him up to a natty over a (holds nose) very game Focus and a likely 2-3x champ in Ryder (McEnally pending).

Ayala has made the finals twice. Not his fault he ran into the buzz saw known as Lucas Byrd, Illinois Athlete Of The Year.

Iowa won the team trophy in '21 and would have in '20 as well.

Thomas Gilman did nearly all his best work at HWC. Maybe if he stayed there he would not have attempted a merkle costing him potential Olympic gold.

Kueter chose wrestling over football in what was likely the most pivotal offseason of his football career, one that could cost him literally tens of millions of dollars if we play the what-if game.

The sky is not falling. Iowa is still Iowa. I would gladly take Iowa's results and outlook.

This upcoming season the outlook and results will be fine, but what about after that?

Drake and Caliendo will be done. I believe Kennedy too.  Whose knows if kueter will finish his career. 

Angelo can't win a team title by himself.

 

[scourge165]

3 hours ago, Caveira said:

It’s almost like.   Just almost.  This horse still has some life in it and hasn’t been beaten to death many times in the past.  

LOL...yeah, we should be talking about 8th graders and the height of immorality because they... sit out a year!

 

That...THAT'S the horse that needs more kicking!

[scourge165]

8 hours ago, VakAttack said:

I think this is a great summation.  When the Taylor to Iowa rumors were swirling, i was pro.  Outside of him, I don't think there's a candidate that moves the needle that way available right now.  Even Burroughs, who has only just in the last month expressed any interest in coaching.

I think Jordan Burroughs would be a... good coach. I don't know that he'd be Cael or DT's level... but he'd attract a LOT of people.

I don't particularly care about Iowa beyond what it means for the sport. And it's just good fro the sport to have a contender to PSU or beyond that, just a strong IOWA Program. People who don't follow Wrestling know of Iowa Wrestling. 

JB would bring in a LOT of recruits... but what's equally important is building out that staff. I'm sure JB could bring in some good assistants. 

 

I'd have said Snyder, but more time needs to pass. I now know what  QV is with a prositute because of Snyder...

[bnwtwg]

21 minutes ago, RawDog said:

Ben Askren is the next game changer head coach.  Praying he has a speedy full recovery.  He should be the obvious first choice to replace TnT if Iowa decides to move on.

I think TnT do a good job coaching what they got. They just can't recruit to save their lives. Let's be honest, the only reason they landed Angelo is because other schools didn't pursue him due to his last name.  I suspect they only got spencer because Penn State already had suriano at the time.  Drake just happened to grow up in iowas backyard.  What other elite recruits have they actually recruited?

It's just so frustrating that a major program like Iowa is so horrible at recruiting.  You would think elite high schoolers would be lining up to go to Iowa.

Ferrari was the top recruit in the country what are you talking about. He picked Iowa, not the other way around. And my feelings about the Focus family are not exactly vague.

Lee beat Suriano in HS. But you think PSU won't recruit over someone for a better person? Get ready to speak Nevills-ese buddy.

Ayala chose Iowa. Google tells me he was the #5 overall big board recruit, who would get to train with Spencer Lee (again 3x champ, reigning Olympic silver medalist and favorite to win worlds this year) and 3x AA Austin "I eat toes and try to break opponents arms" DeSanto while learning under the guys who coached up Cejudo and Lee. But sure he could have picked PSU who is known for their 125 and 133 prowess (except when they face Fighting Illini and cops and staph).

Please stop making me defend Iowa and TnT. I'm begging you... please...