Meyer Shapiro Steroids Accusation

[Caveira]

18 minutes ago, Le duke said:

The WebMD article that YOU POSTED specifically state acne on the back. 

 

Swear I posted this one too.   I’m lazy not looking it up 

No, you don’t have to have both back acne and facial acne to be on steroids. While anabolic steroids can cause acne by increasing oil production in the skin, the location and severity vary from person to person. Some may only experience back acne ("bacne"), others just facial acne, and some both. Genetics, skin type, hygiene, and the specific steroids used all play a role.

[wrestle87]

1 hour ago, Caveira said:

Serious question.  How can some say …. Peds are rampant in d1.  While almost (in the NCAAs) there have been closer to 0 athletes who popped for peds.  The count can’t be 0.  

before you answer.  Fix was popped by wad internationally and not the ncaa.  

You asked this seriously so it merits a serious answer.

The best thing I can offer is first go watch a film called bigger faster stronger.  It is extremely honest and very well done.

Then, go do some reading about the history of exogenous testosterone supplementation in athletics.

Modern athletics and training evolved on the back of the development of the exogenous androgen/anabolic supplementation.  They are intimately linked simply because they work, not just for performance gains but also maintenance of joint integrity and tissue recovery under enormous training loads.

There are some old interviews back in the day with the 1950’s-60’s wrestling coaches where they went drinking with the german coaches after the olympics one year, and the dude got too hammered and told them they’d been supplementing with a test derivative, I don’t recall which, it was relatively new at the time.  Anyway the US coaches went back the next day and put the whole team on it.  Guess who did really well that next cycle.

It was unknown and nobody cared.  Which is the way it should be.  

Steroids got vilified when people started having things to sell (professional sports and WWE mainly), and IP’s to protect(Pharma).  It’s much easier to control people’s actions by manufacturing morality rather than explaining a complex topic, this was entirely where Reagan came in and just…did Reagan things.

Steroids and protein powder, creatine etc are all the same vein of concept, even sports in general, it’s something with a risk reward profile that people participate in for a desired outcome.  Our society just vilifies certain things out of convenience or in support of ulterior motives.

[BarSeries]

 

[MidniteToka]

Same pew, different church. 

My daughter played D1 softball.

5'9, maybe 125 lb slap hitting centerfielder. I was always shocked at what some of the girls from some programs looked like and how far they could hit a softball, especially during batting practice when they were getting cookies. More than once my wife and I whispered to each other, I wonder if she's Jose Canseco's daughter.  

Then you're seeing girls throw 120 pitches, 2 or 3 days in a row.

Hard for me to believe it was just exercise and nutrition. 

[OMW]

1 hour ago, wrestle87 said:

You asked this seriously so it merits a serious answer.

The best thing I can offer is first go watch a film called bigger faster stronger.  It is extremely honest and very well done.

Then, go do some reading about the history of exogenous testosterone supplementation in athletics.

Modern athletics and training evolved on the back of the development of the exogenous androgen/anabolic supplementation.  They are intimately linked simply because they work, not just for performance gains but also maintenance of joint integrity and tissue recovery under enormous training loads.

There are some old interviews back in the day with the 1950’s-60’s wrestling coaches where they went drinking with the german coaches after the olympics one year, and the dude got too hammered and told them they’d been supplementing with a test derivative, I don’t recall which, it was relatively new at the time.  Anyway the US coaches went back the next day and put the whole team on it.  Guess who did really well that next cycle.

It was unknown and nobody cared.  Which is the way it should be.  

Steroids got vilified when people started having things to sell (professional sports and WWE mainly), and IP’s to protect(Pharma).  It’s much easier to control people’s actions by manufacturing morality rather than explaining a complex topic, this was entirely where Reagan came in and just…did Reagan things.

Steroids and protein powder, creatine etc are all the same vein of concept, even sports in general, it’s something with a risk reward profile that people participate in for a desired outcome.  Our society just vilifies certain things out of convenience or in support of ulterior motives.

Coincidentally, I read a portion of a study today about recent research from the University of New South Wales stating that "...taking 5 grams of creatine supplement per day does not make any difference to the amount of lean muscle mass people put on while resistance training."

Research from the study:

"54 healthy people between 18 and 50 through a 12-week resistance training program.

Those in the supplement group took 5 grams of creatine daily — the recommended maintenance dose is 3 to 5 grams.

Participants began creatine a week before starting the exercise program, which included three supervised resistance training sessions a week.

They didn’t do a creatine-loading phase, which involves taking 20 to 25 grams daily for up to a week to rapidly saturate muscle creatine stores.

The researchers said creatine loading isn’t necessary to reach saturation levels and can cause bloating or an upset stomach."

Personally, I thought creatine did add size to my tris and chest and helped with recovery after runs. I did not notice notable gains in lifting performance.

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

24 minutes ago, BarSeries said:

 

Interesting that Marinelli claims that he never lost to anyone; he only beat himself.

I can recall quite a few matches where the other wrestler thoroughly beat Marinelli.

[Richferg]

19 hours ago, Hammerlock3 said:

yeah but does the family typically have a dramatic physical change in the course of a 9 month period?

Haines was a lot smaller than Hamiti, and about the same size as KOT. He struggled to make 157 last year. I’ll bet he didn’t have to cut much to make 174. And I don’t see any acne on Haines. 

[Gene Mills Fan]

This is how Kasak got bad acme

[BigRedFan]

2 hours ago, wrestle87 said:

It was unknown and nobody cared.  Which is the way it should be.  

Steroids got vilified when people started having things to sell (professional sports and WWE mainly), and IP’s to protect(Pharma).  It’s much easier to control people’s actions by manufacturing morality rather than explaining a complex topic, this was entirely where Reagan came in and just…did Reagan things.

Steroids and protein powder, creatine etc are all the same vein of concept, even sports in general, it’s something with a risk reward profile that people participate in for a desired outcome.  Our society just vilifies certain things out of convenience or in support of ulterior motives.

Yeah, no.  People on PEDs remove opportunities from those who wish to achieve through natural means.  This pushes PED use to lower and lower levels and age groups.  Middle school wrestler who wants to get a scholarship in college?  Gotta take PEDs in high school (if not earlier).

For every Lance Armstrong or Tyler Hamilton or Barry Bonds, there is someone who lost out because they refused to cheat.  Making doping "not cheating" just pushes the health risks onto more and more (young) people.

[wrestle87]

40 minutes ago, MidniteToka said:

Same pew, different church. 

My daughter played D1 softball.

5'9, maybe 125 lb slap hitting centerfielder. I was always shocked at what some of the girls from some programs looked like and how far they could hit a softball, especially during batting practice when they were getting cookies. More than once my wife and I whispered to each other, I wonder if she's Jose Canseco's daughter.  

Then you're seeing girls throw 120 pitches, 2 or 3 days in a row.

Hard for me to believe it was just exercise and nutrition. 

It’s definitely a thing, but you can never pass judgement until you see what family members look like.

Genetics is the ultimate performance enhancer, and it is undefeated in potency and reliability long term.

”Holy crap that dude has a barn door back…and so does his brother, and his dad…and his grandpa too?!”

[BigRedFan]

47 minutes ago, MidniteToka said:

Hard for me to believe it was just exercise and nutrition. 

In reference to the Tour de France, it was noted

Quote

 "I am not being hypocritical but it is obvious no one can race day after day on mineral water and salad. "

 

[Caveira]

8 minutes ago, BigRedFan said:

Yeah, no.  People on PEDs remove opportunities from those who wish to achieve through natural means.  This pushes PED use to lower and lower levels and age groups.  Middle school wrestler who wants to get a scholarship in college?  Gotta take PEDs in high school (if not earlier).

For every Lance Armstrong or Tyler Hamilton or Barry Bonds, there is someone who lost out because they refused to cheat.  Making doping "not cheating" just pushes the health risks onto more and more (young) people.

Some people won’t agree.  But same as doing 8th grade twice.   Even grey shirts are morally “grey” imo.  

[Elevator]

I doubt that Shapiro is taking steroids, but if he is perhaps it is a new treatment for head injury? 

[jross]

32 minutes ago, Richferg said:

Haines was a lot smaller than Hamiti, and about the same size as KOT. He struggled to make 157 last year. I’ll bet he didn’t have to cut much to make 174. And I don’t see any acne on Haines. 

Kasak has had face acne for years; it isn’t new.

Hamiti is tall; not thick.  

KOT has deceptive functional strength; not showy strength.  He lost as a freshman because of strength.

Haines looks like a Greek statue in comparison.

 

[jross]

1 hour ago, MidniteToka said:

Same pew, different church. 

My daughter played D1 softball.

5'9, maybe 125 lb slap hitting centerfielder. I was always shocked at what some of the girls from some programs looked like and how far they could hit a softball, especially during batting practice when they were getting cookies. More than once my wife and I whispered to each other, I wonder if she's Jose Canseco's daughter.  

Then you're seeing girls throw 120 pitches, 2 or 3 days in a row.

Hard for me to believe it was just exercise and nutrition. 

Your daughter seems like the exception for even high school softball.  Thin like she never hit puberty.  What height!

My freshman has been 5’2 125lbs since 11.  Went from “Krusher” to “Kate.”  From the tallest and thickest to the most petite on her team.  Lean; not fat.  

No shade.

Congrats to your daughter on success.

[VakAttack]

20 hours ago, nhs67 said:

Warner ain't been right in the head since Dean took his soul.  Same for ole Lunchbox Mits after Amine took his soul.

You have to vary up the insults here.

[Formally140]

There's multiple types of PEDs... Fix didn't pop for "steroids". IIRCC. It was a cardio thing and a supplement that helped unnaturally retain muscle when cutting weight. 
 

Keeping this discussion just about 70s steroids is both incomplete and makes the discussion about "acne". Most of the PEDs for combat sports aren't necessarily pure "steroids"
 

Again, none of this stuff is really that hard to find out. It's very much like what happened Arizona State* RTC a couple years back, that "kind" of "alledged" story isn't at all shocking to anyone who's been around some of the higher level stuff.. BUT, until enforcement and names are made official. It won't matter. 

 

 

*im not gonna get into the Arizona St stuff. My point is that the way the issues are handled inside of wrestling and the way people not in the loop react is identical

[nhs67]

39 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

You have to vary up the insults here.

If it were two other gents, I might have been able to do so.

Dean and Amine are Michiganders, so I had to.

[MidniteToka]

22 minutes ago, jross said:

Your daughter seems like the exception for even high school softball.  Thin like she never hit puberty.  What height!

My freshman has been 5’2 125lbs since 11.  Went from “Krusher” to “Kate.”  From the tallest and thickest to the most petite on her team.  Lean; not fat.  

No shade.

Congrats to your daughter on success.

Thank you.  They are all different. 

My wife used to say she was the son I never had, lol.  From age 6 to 14 she played baseball and was pretty much the best player in the league.  Then she started playing HS and travel softball, even some mens church league.  If you saw her dressed up, makeup, and giggling with her friends about boys, you'd never guess.  She's actually quite feminine until she gets a softball or baseball in her hands.  She always ate like a horse but was skinny.  Now that she's no longer playing, we'll see if that changes. 

[88Cards]

Tried for a long time to not jump in. Throwing around accusations about kids when we know nothing about their health, is truly sad. 11 pages so far and sure it’s gonna grow. I personally did not hit my growth spurt until I was almost 20 years old. As far as the acne, I know plenty of people who have bad acne and had nothing to do with steroids. Hard enough for a kid to deal with it without idiots throwing out allegations about steroids/PED use. 
 

As far as NCAA testing, I do not know what they do and do not test for anymore. I know during my sons college careers, they were randomly tested several times by the school (Big 10) and my older was selected twice for a random at the Big 10 tournament. He said he thought the school was more for recreational drugs (hair sample) and his coaches stated that at Big 10’s and nationals, they tested for PED’s as well. This was 6-8 years ago, so once again, no idea what is done now or what they were actually testing for. 
 

Unless you have some actual proof or someone fails a test, let’s please stop defaming these kids. 

[wrestle87]

1 hour ago, BigRedFan said:

Yeah, no.  People on PEDs remove opportunities from those who wish to achieve through natural means.  This pushes PED use to lower and lower levels and age groups.  Middle school wrestler who wants to get a scholarship in college?  Gotta take PEDs in high school (if not earlier).

For every Lance Armstrong or Tyler Hamilton or Barry Bonds, there is someone who lost out because they refused to cheat.  Making doping "not cheating" just pushes the health risks onto more and more (young) people.

It's just always been there, and it is an unpoliced part of the sport, and always will be because ultimately the highest competition is what drives the financing of the sport.  

You can say "yeah no", but that doesn't change the reality of competitive sports, even at an amateur let alone professional level.  Purported morality on a subject is only useful so long as there is a mechanism in place to support the preferred behavior.  There isn't, and there never will be, because the incentives of competition have not and will never prioritize "ethics" over success.

If 80% of all professional athletes in the world are on something, and nobody is doing anything to correct it because the incentive structure is crafted to encourage it, are we really talking about something that is wrong, or are we just talking about the true cost of playing the game that people just choose to stick their heads in the sand about?

I saw this having had my butt handed to me in a few different settings by opponents clearly on some extra assistance, nobody did anything, said anything, or enforced anything, and it is that way at every high level of every sport.  So...?

At some point we just have to evolve the conversation about sports and the risk-reward for seeking the highest level of athletics.

Fair competition is a myth btw.  Nobody has ever cared about that, they only say it to preserve audience dollars.

[ScarletKnight]

I few years ago I saw one of the recent 125 pound champs with back acne 

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

13 minutes ago, ScarletKnight said:

I few years ago I saw one of the recent 125 pound champs with back acne 

Did you notify the NCAA?

[juniorvarsity]

8 hours ago, BAC said:

So if a kid "grew" and "has acne", calling him a steroid user is a "fair accusation"?

If the bar's really that low to get your name viciously dragged through the mud on social media, these D1 wrestlers who go up a weight class better take their Preparation H.

So if a kid "grew" and "failed for long enough making the team", calling him a steroid user is a "good accusation"?

I guess these international wrestlers who bump up a weight class better hope they never make the team, or they too will get brutally defamed on social media and it will be "good." 

Here's a crazy thought.  What if we just let the drug testers do their job and respect the results?

It's not a fair accusation. I was trying to say that there are no good accusations. I listed off all the recent guys and how they aren't suspicious. Reading your response to my comment made me see that I did not word it about Kasak very well. Oh well, maybe chill out because I also said, "I just do not get it. And we have Warner and Marinelli being whiney bitches online about it."

Not sure why you're piecing up my comment and misrepresenting what I said.

Gun to my head, who from Penn State has done steroids? I would go with Taylor with low confidence. I think failure is a good motivator to do steroids. I'm not a journalist or on television. Get over it. David Taylor is my all time favorite wrestler.

[ionel]

19 minutes ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Did you notify the NCAA?

I saw a guy welch on a bet.  Authorities were notified but nothing happened.