Flo: Russia is Boycotting 2024 Paris Games

[Bulldog]

Looks like Russia wrestling is out.

https://www.flowrestling.org/articles/12697345-russian-wrestling-team-to-completely-opt-out-of-olympics

Edited July 6 by Bulldog

[1032004]

Interesting that it seems specific to wrestling (so far at least)

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

Does this mean medal winners should get a * in the record books?

[nhs67]

"Hey your best guys can't play because they support the evil invasion."

"You can't fire me!  I quit!"

"That's fine.  We already said no to the guys that mattered anyways, bro..."

"BOYCOOOOOOOTTT!"

[The Kid]

30 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

"Hey your best guys can't play because they support the evil invasion."

"You can't fire me!  I quit!"

"That's fine.  We already said no to the guys that mattered anyways, bro..."

"BOYCOOOOOOOTTT!"

However, no israeli's are banned due to their invasion and genocide in Palestine. 

But, yeah. Russia is bad. 

israel is God.  They must exterminate their opposition. 

[D3 for LU]

So, Russia is on the boycott wagon (wrestling-wise.)

Does that mean China, Iran, & North Korea can't be far behind?

Hmmm...

D3

Edited July 6 by D3 for LU

[Spladle08]

USA USA USA 
Feels like we should do some winning 

[BAC]

A few thoughts.

First, I feel bad for the AIN athletes for Russia.  Earl's article on the front page says that the boycott was a "unanimous vote" and that the invited athletes participated in it.  But the time for the individual athletes to make that decision was two weeks ago.  Several declined (mostly Belorussian, and one or two Russian), and the other 10 said yes.  So basically all 10 of these athletes wanted to go, and now, obviously not wanting to spend the rest of their life in a Siberian labor camp, decided to "reconsider."

Second, it isn't surprising. It never happened before because the AIN process had always been a rubber stamp. But now that the IOC actually decided to give a crap, and affirmatively refuse invites to people who are actively cheering on Russia's land-grabbing invasion, it creates a scenario where only athletes who steadfastly refuse to support their own government can participate.  And if you're Putin, that's just not tenable.  You can't have athletes actively trying to dissociate themselves from you.  Better to ban them from going at all, lest it spark dissent against the warmongering regime.

Third, all of this tells me the IOC, for once, got it right. Prior "bans" have been a JOKE, with there always being a de facto Russian team there, praising Putin as Putin praises them back. The AIN process was always supposed to be about the rights of the individual athletes, not Russia's rights, but Russia basically got to have a team in every way except in name.  But done right, the AIN process can actually do some social good by incentivizing change.  So while the boycott sucks for the AIN wrestlers, it tells them:  either (a) stay in your country and cheerlead for its bad actions, and lose your right to compete, or (b) stay in your country and don't cheerlead, but realize your country may *still* not let you compete, incentivizing you and your supports to advocate for change in your country's behavior, or (c) find a better country, and compete there.

Fourth, the question remains whether AIN selections will remain as rigorous for future UWW events. After all, many of these Russian athletes cleared the AIN hurdle for 2023 Worlds.  What changed?  Will UWW, when not being glared at by IOC, continue with its prior weak approval process, or will it have teeth?  Does Sadulaev make a sudden return in 2025? Only if it has teeth going forward can the new AIN process have any effect. (My own guess is Trump wins in November, immediately cease all support for Ukraine, Ukraine is forced to capitulate and cede land, the war ends, the ban ends.)

Fifth, all that said, it sucks we won't get to see the US wrestlers compete with Russia's best.  

[1032004]

3 hours ago, The Kid said:

However, no israeli's are banned due to their invasion and genocide in Palestine. 

But, yeah. Russia is bad. 

israel is God.  They must exterminate their opposition. 

Russia’s invasion was unprovoked.  Israel’s was not.

[BigRedFan]

25 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Russia’s invasion was unprovoked.  Israel’s was not.

Then there's that thing (which actually caused the exclusion of some of the Russian wrestlers, and not the mere fact of the Ukraine invasion) about athletes publicly speaking in support of the invasion of Ukraine.

[nhs67]

4 hours ago, The Kid said:

However, no israeli's are banned due to their invasion and genocide in Palestine. 

But, yeah. Russia is bad. 

israel is God.  They must exterminate their opposition. 

There is a lot of ignorance and complete lack of depth in your post.

[1032004]

6 hours ago, BigRedFan said:

Then there's that thing (which actually caused the exclusion of some of the Russian wrestlers, and not the mere fact of the Ukraine invasion) about athletes publicly speaking in support of the invasion of Ukraine.

I honestly think that part is kinda stupid.  I don’t really fault them for supporting their own country anyway, but it’s also possible they were forced to do it publicly.

[AgaveMaria]

11 hours ago, The Kid said:

However, no israeli's are banned due to their invasion and genocide in Palestine. 

But, yeah. Russia is bad. 

israel is God.  They must exterminate their opposition. 

Hamas rains over 600 milliles on them and you don't want them to respond? Dumber than a Mormon!

[billyhoyle]

12 hours ago, The Kid said:

However, no israeli's are banned due to their invasion and genocide in Palestine. 

But, yeah. Russia is bad. 

israel is God.  They must exterminate their opposition. 

Did you have a problem with the U.S. going into Afghanistan after 9/11? There's no moral equivalency between invading a sovereign nation to annex it and responding to a terrorist attack by going after that terrorist group. 

This response by Russia seems more aimed at punishing their athletes who chose not to publicly support the war than it does anything else.   

[AnklePicker]

20 hours ago, BAC said:

A few thoughts.

First, I feel bad for the AIN athletes for Russia.  Earl's article on the front page says that the boycott was a "unanimous vote" and that the invited athletes participated in it.  But the time for the individual athletes to make that decision was two weeks ago.  Several declined (mostly Belorussian, and one or two Russian), and the other 10 said yes.  So basically all 10 of these athletes wanted to go, and now, obviously not wanting to spend the rest of their life in a Siberian labor camp, decided to "reconsider."

Second, it isn't surprising. It never happened before because the AIN process had always been a rubber stamp. But now that the IOC actually decided to give a crap, and affirmatively refuse invites to people who are actively cheering on Russia's land-grabbing invasion, it creates a scenario where only athletes who steadfastly refuse to support their own government can participate.  And if you're Putin, that's just not tenable.  You can't have athletes actively trying to dissociate themselves from you.  Better to ban them from going at all, lest it spark dissent against the warmongering regime.

Third, all of this tells me the IOC, for once, got it right. Prior "bans" have been a JOKE, with there always being a de facto Russian team there, praising Putin as Putin praises them back. The AIN process was always supposed to be about the rights of the individual athletes, not Russia's rights, but Russia basically got to have a team in every way except in name.  But done right, the AIN process can actually do some social good by incentivizing change.  So while the boycott sucks for the AIN wrestlers, it tells them:  either (a) stay in your country and cheerlead for its bad actions, and lose your right to compete, or (b) stay in your country and don't cheerlead, but realize your country may *still* not let you compete, incentivizing you and your supports to advocate for change in your country's behavior, or (c) find a better country, and compete there.

Fourth, the question remains whether AIN selections will remain as rigorous for future UWW events. After all, many of these Russian athletes cleared the AIN hurdle for 2023 Worlds.  What changed?  Will UWW, when not being glared at by IOC, continue with its prior weak approval process, or will it have teeth?  Does Sadulaev make a sudden return in 2025? Only if it has teeth going forward can the new AIN process have any effect. (My own guess is Trump wins in November, immediately cease all support for Ukraine, Ukraine is forced to capitulate and cede land, the war ends, the ban ends.)

Fifth, all that said, it sucks we won't get to see the US wrestlers compete with Russia's best.  

If Ukraine is forced to capitulate, do you seriously think Putin stops at Ukraine’s border?  

[BAC]

3 hours ago, AnklePicker said:

If Ukraine is forced to capitulate, do you seriously think Putin stops at Ukraine’s border?  

That sounds like a rhetorical question, but if its a real one, the answer is I don't know. Do you? 

But if you you're suggesting he intends to go beyond Ukraine to Eastern Europe (e.g. Hungary, Poland, Romania etc), no, I don't think that happens.  That's NATO territory and nothing I've read suggests he is either that stupid or that conquering the world is Putin's goal. 

That isn't to say he doesn't have grander ambitions, but I can't say I'm as sure about what his goals are as some others seem to be.  Some say he's trying to rebuild the Soviet empire, but his actions suggest its a lesser version of that, i.e. more about reclaiming areas that he thinks are ethnically and historically "Russian."  And I would imagine there's a corollary goal of claiming areas that would put Russia in a position of greater strength relative to NATO.

My guess is he's looking to wait out the election, confident Trump will force Ukraine to cede the Ukranian land currently occupied by Russia, and gear up to make another run at the rest of Ukraine in several years when the political climate is right.  But I also suspect Putin is weighing whether, if Trump wins, he should seize the moment to try to take the rest of Ukraine. I think he might, if he is convinced Trump will stand by.

I'm no foreign policy expert though, and I'm sure there's a lot I don't know here.

[alex1fly]

I don’t think Putin wants to take over Europe. However nothing I saw in Trumps first term makes me think Trump can gracefully navigate an incredibly complex geopolitical situation like the Ukraine war beyond blustering and taking credit. 
 

I do feel for the Russian athletes. They don’t really get a say over their destinies. We’ll see what their Friendship Games have to offer after the Olympics. 

[Hammerlock3]

I wish they were competing, don't blame the athletes, but it depends how much moral responsibility you want to put on them. Do they deserve to compete? yes. In my mind is this an acceptable wage for someone who has knowingly been the dramatic beneficiary of a giant crime syndicate? Also yes.

[The Kid]

On 7/6/2024 at 1:46 PM, nhs67 said:

There is a lot of ignorance and complete lack of depth in your post.

Why?  Israel had occupied Gaza for over 70 years. Now they want to kill every Paladtian there. 

Israel has bombed Gaza, Syria, Lebanon, and Yemen.  Why do they get a free  pass 

NATO violated the peace treaty with Russia, the Minsk Accords.  Russia doesn't want NATO on their border with nuclear missiles.  Just like we wouldn't want Russian nukes in Mexico and Canada.

But yeah, Putin is going to take over Europe. 

You believe this US propaganda? 

HOW MANY LIES WILL YOU ACCEPT AS TRUTH? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[meZYNbrink]

Whether you support Israel, Russia, or any other invading force (the US has done its fair share of extraterritorial operations), who could say that it is fair for the IOC to play god and decide that athletes can't compete for supporting their country? Especially in situations where they have less access to freedom of speech than in the countries the IOC chairpeople live in (Germany, Singapore, Australia, etc)? Surely German citizens and Russian citizens play in different realms of public life.

[meZYNbrink]

I don't have the receipts but I'm certain that if you interviewed the 2004 US team about their support for US invasions in Afghanistan and Iraq they would wholeheartedly support it... And I'm also sure that they would not hesitate to appear in public with George Bush.

[Wrestleknownothing]

27 minutes ago, The Kid said:

Why?  Israel had occupied Gaza for over 70 years. Now they want to kill every Paladtian there. 

Israel has bombed Gaza, Syria, Lebanon, and Yemen.  Why do they get a free  pass 

NATO violated the peace treaty with Russia, the Minsk Accords.  Russia doesn't want NATO on their border with nuclear missiles.  Just like we wouldn't want Russian nukes in Mexico and Canada.

But yeah, Putin is going to take over Europe. 

You believe this US propaganda? 

HOW MANY LIES WILL YOU ACCEPT AS TRUTH? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I will not accept this lie. Minsk I was signed to stop the Russian invasion. Then Russia violated it's own agreement 4 months later.

And NATO cannot violate an agreement it is not party to.

Edited July 8 by Wrestleknownothing

[Le duke]

Why?  Israel had occupied Gaza for over 70 years. Now they want to kill every Paladtian there. 
Israel has bombed Gaza, Syria, Lebanon, and Yemen.  Why do they get a free  pass 
NATO violated the peace treaty with Russia, the Minsk Accords.  Russia doesn't want NATO on their border with nuclear missiles.  Just like we wouldn't want Russian nukes in Mexico and Canada.
But yeah, Putin is going to take over Europe. 
You believe this US propaganda? 
HOW MANY LIES WILL YOU ACCEPT AS TRUTH? 
 
 
 
 
 
 

What NATO countries violated the peace treaty with Russia, when, and through what actions.

I’ll wait.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[nhs67]

1 hour ago, The Kid said:

Why?  Israel had occupied Gaza for over 70 years. Now they want to kill every Paladtian there. 

Israel has bombed Gaza, Syria, Lebanon, and Yemen.  Why do they get a free  pass 

NATO violated the peace treaty with Russia, the Minsk Accords.  Russia doesn't want NATO on their border with nuclear missiles.  Just like we wouldn't want Russian nukes in Mexico and Canada.

But yeah, Putin is going to take over Europe. 

You believe this US propaganda? 

HOW MANY LIES WILL YOU ACCEPT AS TRUTH?

Holy shit, dude.  You've ***ducking** lost it.  So because your post is fueled by obviously biased ignorance I now believe all the US propaganda and lies?  You're a few screws short of a full set and a couple rides too long on the short bus, bud.

Try keeping it to wrestling shit on the wrestling forum, eh bud?

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

2 hours ago, meZYNbrink said:

I don't have the receipts but I'm certain that if you interviewed the 2004 US team about their support for US invasions in Afghanistan and Iraq they would wholeheartedly support it... And I'm also sure that they would not hesitate to appear in public with George Bush.

The difference was that by the time of the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan (justified or not), the US had their ducks in a row.  They built an international coalition to support the invasions.

Russia had... Belarus.  Yes, China, Iran NK, have come into the fold, but that took a bit of time.  At the beginning, even Switzerland opposed the invasion!