Congrats on the escape; you earn zero points

[jross]

It is fine to increase TDs and reversals by a point to give stronger credit rather than 'penalizing' the escape by making it zero points. 

Reversals and TDs should have equal points rather than TDs getting more.

Keep the complexity out of scoring.  There must be zero consideration for situational points based on whether the top man freely lets bottom man loose versus bottom man earns his way.

Edited March 18, 2023 by jross

[AgaveMaria]

19 hours ago, PortaJohn said:

Bottom man deserves a point for working out from bottom.  Takedowns and reversals should be 3 points

Even if there is no working involved - he is just let go?

Then again, maybe it is fair as the top guy can't maintain control and chooses to wrestle on his feet.

Still think extended riding should be called stalling if the top man is not working to pin the opponent.

[jross]

Counter point.

Top man automatically scores one point anytime he has 1 minute of riding time more than bottom man.  Then, riding time resets to 0 and the riding time score opportunity begins again. 

Explore what to do next.  Perhaps if no back points were awarded during this riding time, reset the match in neutral.  Or make it interesting and restart the match with bottom man now on top.  Drama.

[VakAttack]

1 minute ago, jross said:

Counter point.

Top man automatically scores one point anytime he has 1 minute of riding time more than bottom man.  Then, riding time resets to 0 and the riding time score opportunity begins again. 

Explore what to do next.  Perhaps if no back points were awarded during this riding time, reset the match in neutral.  Or make it interesting and restart the match with bottom man now on top.  Drama.

I think encouraging someone to ride just to ride is bad in all contexts.

[Dark Energy]

Three points for TD o reversal is sounding better and better.  Perhaps Tech fall margin and bonus margin needs to be adjusted up.

Wrestler A gets a TD.  Wrestler B gets escape and then to start 2nd period gets escape.  Wrestler A should be winning.  

The example of Yianni Murin being at 6-4 with 3 TDs for Yianni is a great example that I also noted.

[jross]

35 minutes ago, Dark Energy said:

Perhaps Tech fall margin and bonus margin needs to be adjusted up.

Keep the current margin.
 

36 minutes ago, Dark Energy said:

Wrestler A gets a TD.  Wrestler B gets escape and then to start 2nd period gets escape.  Wrestler A should be winning.  

Yes.

[jmoney]

Stalling this year is being called at one third the appropriate rate. Some of these guys are just laying on the mat, not working on top, or dancing in neutral. Was there a rule change this year ?

[jross]

 

 

 

Edited March 18, 2023 by jross
fix video

[jross]

Extreme 'not wrestling' deserves extreme consequences.

Should Soldano be awarded 7 points for the lost opportunity of 2pts TD, 4pts NF, and awarded another 1pt for the homer penalty. 

[D3 for LU]

On 3/17/2023 at 7:38 PM, D3 for LU said:

I was trying to look for that rule... doing a fast scan in my copy of The History of Collegiate Wrestling by Jarrius Hammond (BOOMER!)  Didn't find it yet.

If I recall, wasn't it for one season... don't exactly know when it happened (I'm thinking early 60's... some of the Okies played a lot of Take 'em down/let 'em up matches.)

???

D3

Pardon for of the delay since I last posted on this.

For those who do have a copy of The History of College Wrestling by Jay Hammond... it's starts with page 54 on "Evolution of the NCAA Wrestling Scoring Rules: look down at 1962. It mentions about the change of scoring TD's w/ the first one @ 2pts and then only 1pt for each one after. That went on until reverting it back to 2 pts for ALL TD's  starting w/ the '68-'66 season. Explanation of that rule can be found on page 135 as such... " While the  expressed purpose of the change in scoring was to encourage mat wrestling, it is hard not to believe that the real intention was to rein the Oklahoma State Cowboys."  

In short... the "take 'em down- let 'em up" strategy.

Interesting! 

D3

[billyhoyle]

5 hours ago, D3 for LU said:

Pardon for of the delay since I last posted on this.

For those who do have a copy of The History of College Wrestling by Jay Hammond... it's starts with page 54 on "Evolution of the NCAA Wrestling Scoring Rules: look down at 1962. It mentions about the change of scoring TD's w/ the first one @ 2pts and then only 1pt for each one after. That went on until reverting it back to 2 pts for ALL TD's  starting w/ the '68-'66 season. Explanation of that rule can be found on page 135 as such... " While the  expressed purpose of the change in scoring was to encourage mat wrestling, it is hard not to believe that the real intention was to rein the Oklahoma State Cowboys."  

In short... the "take 'em down- let 'em up" strategy.

Interesting! 

D3

My favorite book about wrestling. Thank you for mentioning it. 

[CementMixer]

I love how year in year out the haters reach for the most obscure things lol....Go ahead and take Van Ness escape points away..instead of 13-9 he then pins him in the third  

[GreatWhiteNorth]

On 3/18/2023 at 9:45 AM, VakAttack said:

I think encouraging someone to ride just to ride is bad in all contexts.

... unless I'm riding and trying to get my wind and strength back because I'm wiped out from the previous series. Then it's good - for me. I like riding in that case.

Otherwise, no. The other contexts are bad. All of them that don't include my special case... and, of course, me.

Edited April 3, 2023 by GreatWhiteNorth

[scourge165]

10 hours ago, CementMixer said:

I love how year in year out the haters reach for the most obscure things lol....Go ahead and take Van Ness escape points away..instead of 13-9 he then pins him in the third  

I just don't get how someone can watch the NCAAs and think we need these massive, sweeping changes. 3 point TDs or 0 point escapes, push-outs like the sport needs these sweeping overhauls to problems that don't really exist.

These changes would make the sport unrecognizable. 

I get trying to create more action on the mat, eliminating that stupid ankle hook that's effectively the same as dropping down to the ankle for 5 seconds, work to turn...alright.

 

[LJB]

some people like network sitcoms...

[Lipdrag]

On 3/18/2023 at 3:13 PM, jross said:

 

 

 

A bit of topic here but . . . Does anyone else wish the college refs would STFU?  "Stay legal" stated over and over again is just ridiculous.  Do football referees tell linemen during a play "Don't hold, don't hold"?.  Are basketball refs compelled to say "Don't travel, Don't travel"?  The referee theatrics are getting to be too much.  Just like the other sports:  If I take note of anything the referee does then he has probably failed in his primary job.

[D3 for LU]

How about this for a solution at the NCAA's... don't mic them!

D3

[Lipdrag]

 

How about this for a solution at the NCAA's... don't mic them!

D3

Mic or not does not matter.  The refs don't need to be talking to the wrestlers that much at all.  "Stay legal" Sheesh!

[LJB]

 

A bit of topic here but . . . Does anyone else wish the college refs would STFU?  "Stay legal" stated over and over again is just ridiculous.  Do football referees tell linemen during a play "Don't hold, don't hold"?.  Are basketball refs compelled to say "Don't travel, Don't travel"?  The referee theatrics are getting to be too much.  Just like the other sports:  If I take note of anything the referee does then he has probably failed in his primary job.

[CoachC]

I am not for the Pushout because you get taken down near line, about to stand up and earn an E1 and you get lifted out of bounds for a Pushout.  I do think a Takedown should be worth 3 points, this would hopefully have people open up more on their feet, plus help with those scoring situations.

[AgaveMaria]

Difficult one. Controlling the opponent and preventing and escape is good - but if not actively working for a pin is not good wrestling. Work for a pin or the opponent is let up by the ref - no point or 1/2 point?

An actual escape while the opponent is trying to prevent it should be worth the full point.

Maybe a Reversal should be worth more than 2 points? Can be better than an escape & takedown.

Little in folkstyle wrestling is more boring than watching a persistent rider - who does nothing but ride, ride, ride. Content to sit on top and a Ref too chicken to call STALLING.

[1032004]

On 4/3/2023 at 7:37 PM, Lipdrag said:

A bit of topic here but . . . Does anyone else wish the college refs would STFU?  "Stay legal" stated over and over again is just ridiculous.  Do football referees tell linemen during a play "Don't hold, don't hold"?.  Are basketball refs compelled to say "Don't travel, Don't travel"?  The referee theatrics are getting to be too much.  Just like the other sports:  If I take note of anything the referee does then he has probably failed in his primary job.

Don’t they do pretty similar in boxing and MMA though?

[1032004]

I think I like TD’s as 3.

An escape as zero is dumb, it’s not easy to escape.  But I think there should be more reward for a TD.

The main thing that’s frustrating for me about neutral wresting is that guys will often do nothing until the end of the period because they don’t want give up the escape.  I think a 3 pt TD would help with that.

[Gus]

3 hours ago, 1032004 said:

I think I like TD’s as 3.

An escape as zero is dumb, it’s not easy to escape.  But I think there should be more reward for a TD.

The main thing that’s frustrating for me about neutral wresting is that guys will often do nothing until the end of the period because they don’t want give up the escape.  I think a 3 pt TD would help with that.

The main problem with moving to a 3 point takedown is that the crowd cannot scream TWWWWWOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

On 4/4/2023 at 3:35 PM, Lipdrag said:

Mic or not does not matter.  The refs don't need to be talking to the wrestlers that much at all.  "Stay legal" Sheesh!

Until someone's shoulder gets ripped out.  Or a guy gets penalized for an illegal hold and the point costs him the match.  

"Preventative officiating."