Cole and Connor Mirasola

[jchapman]

5 minutes ago, Bulldog said:

Becasue of Asken or because of Bono?  Rest assured, I am not an Askren fan, but to imply it is all on Ben...talk to some SDSU people.

because of Askren.  His AWA wrestlers don't go to UW.

[Gus]

47 minutes ago, jchapman said:

because of Askren.  His AWA wrestlers don't go to UW.

Josh Otto is at Wisconsin.

[Gus]

53 minutes ago, Bulldog said:

Becasue of Asken or because of Bono?  Rest assured, I am not an Askren fan, but to imply it is all on Ben...talk to some SDSU people.

The crazy part to me is that Reader stays with Bono. By all accounts Reader is a stand up guy.

[TexRef]

On 2/21/2023 at 7:17 AM, crossface21 said:

In Wisconsin: 

Except for events held in bordering states (MN, IL, MI and IA), no approval shall be provided for more than one out-of-state competition, event and/or scrimmage per team each school season.

So they CAN go to a big out of state event (in a non bordering state) during the season. Now it is up to coach. They like it better when they can use a rule as a crutch. 

[jchapman]

1 hour ago, Gus said:

Josh Otto is at Wisconsin.

Correction:  99% of AWA don't go to Wisconsin.

[MizzouFan01]

9 hours ago, scourge165 said:

They're a tier below O'Toole...but not a big one. They're both BIG time studs. I'd guess 197 and 184 in College. 

They are wrestling HWT and 195 so that AWA can have a string of State Champs(all about Ben's Ego). But I've watched a lot of Wisconsin kids the last couple years and there is no state with more elite College Talent in the 2024 class than Wisconsin(I appreciate that there will be a mountain of skeptics). They probably have about 15 years of talent squeezed into one class. The best IMO are Sinclair and Hopke, but they've got studs everywhere. 

Probably on the same tier as Charlie Millard(he was a Soph last year who lost to Mitchell Messenbrink in the State Finals). Just a shade below Greyson Clark, a Purdue kid who originally committed to Wisconsin, but has really stepped it up. 
 

The rich get richer. There's another few kids like Bast, a kid...DuChateau I think(from the same school as Askren) and a few others who are very solid recruits.

Koy Hopke is the prize of this class. I'll guess he's a Gopher, but there's gonna be a LOT of guys high on the podium from Wisconsin who don't end up at UW because of Askren.

I have been following Sinclair since he committed to Mizzou. Both guys visited Mizzou the same day Sinclair and Millard. I did see Millard committed to Minnesota. We at Mizzou are happy to continue taking any AWA guys. 

[scourge165]

20 hours ago, Bulldog said:

Becasue of Asken or because of Bono?  Rest assured, I am not an Askren fan, but to imply it is all on Ben...talk to some SDSU people.

Because of Askren. Yeah, not everyone is gonna love Bono, but Askren is so petty. Same issue as with Davis. 

Mirasola made a subtle reference and it was Askren's words coming out of his mouth. He talked about the first night of recruiting and how some coaches "act like they care, but you know they're fake." This was directed at Bono and they wouldn't even take his call because Askren is still upset he was "only" offered 40% coming out. Nevermind he had a HORRIBLE visit and ran his mouth to the entire team.

But he clings to the pettiest shit.

Bono at least when he left SDSU brought people with and still could recruit the state(at least up until the Burwick situation...which again, LITERALLY had nothing to do with him...hell, I've heard people blame him for not releasing Robb when he left and HE-WAS-GONE! It was Hahn would wouldn't release him).

Bono isn't for everyone. He's intense, but Askren questioning his character...that little feud stems from the start of Covid(before things were cancelled). He was the RTC coach, guys were kinda scrambling to get workouts in as things were in flux and another AWA coach wanted to bring his kids up to the room to work out next to the RTC. When told they couldn't because Wisconsin was limiting how many people could be in a room, this particular coach didn't get upset, BEN did. 1-Because he wasn't told about the workout...but it was kinda impromptu and B-because AWA was told no. Neither were by Bono.

And then...might as well just throw this all out there. Askren publicly questioned their "commitment" to their Wrestlers and their "loyalty," after they brought in Lamont and Gomez. He's called them "transfer-U," despite the fact that ONE was a Wrestler who came back after retiring, and the other was a Wrestler who contacted them.
And I get you wanna go to bat for your guys(such as the Wrestler who was penciled in at 149) but you don't pass on Austin Gomez. Lamont was an even stranger case. He contacted them. They certainly didn't put on the full court press for a very talented Wrestler, but a kid with one year left when they had a good young '33 pounder AND they'd just recruited a couple of STUDS to Wrestle there(Rivera and Greyson Clark who re-opened his recruitment after committing and spending a week with....I'll let you take a guess.

There was another AWA kid who had a scholarship at UW. It wasn't a big scholarship, but it was flat. Well...they needed some space for that year as they'd just gotten a ELITE recruit and were just short trying to get under the 9.9 and they had money freeing up the following year). So about 10 days before, Bono goes to the parents and says 'we can't do X amount each year, but we'll backload it. If he's still with the program as a Sr, he'll get X amount of dollars.' The parents signed off(I heard this straight from the parents). Well...guess who didn't and was upset about it?

The parents and the kid agreed, but Ben claimed he lied and he had no integrity 10 days later when it was time to sign. He signed but later transferred and so he didn't get the big chunk he would have gotten. I don't want to get too specific here.

There's also the Gross situation. Askren claims that he was promised a job if he transferred there and that's why Matt Mcdonough was "forced out." The only problem...Gross had a job with the RTC at the time and was in the room already. So we're back to some assumptions being made that...don't really make sense.

The bottom line, you have a big Ego in Bono and you have a galactic sized Ego in Askren. Askren has publicly talked about how he tells his kids you won't get better at Wisconsin, he goes online and taunts Bono and the program. He's called people "stupid" for considering Wisconsin. And he's the face of the best club in the State. These kids OBVIOUSLY have a great deal of respect for him. 

Sinclair was asked where he had Wisconsin(before he was allowed to be recruited, so he hadn't yet spoke to anyone). He said "how mny programs are there? 72? They're 73rd."

Now...a YEAR earlier he'd said his dream was to Wrestle at Wisconsin. They're not PSU or Iowa, but they've got a pretty solid program, but Askren is cutting their legs out from under them. 

 

I know both and I can see people taking issue with both of them...trust me, I get that. But short of Askren being named the HC at Wisconsin or the ONE other person that he'd approve getting the job, he will do what he can to get the kids from his camps to go elsewhere. It's kinda sad. The ONE D1 School in the State and the top Club and probably the greatest Wrestler(at least Folkstyle) from the state just cannot get along! And as a result, it's hurting the program, but it's also hurting the kids. You have kids who HAD dreamed of Wresting at Wisconsin, who's family went to Wisconsin and Reader, Gross, etc...(much less Bono) literally can't get a phone call from these kids.

I'll say this, ONE other thing that really hurt was Branvold leaving. I know he was tight with a lot of guys. Also, you have ONE of the two publicly taunting or mocking recruits and the other has said he'd love to sit down and discuss some of the issues. But of course, Ben won't do it unless it's live on Flo. Does ANYONE think that Bono wins in that scenario?

They've got some really good kids coming in. Ferrari, Davino and Hopke have them in their final 3(I'd say Hopke goes to Minnesota, but they already invested pretty heavily in Nelson who's just a year older).

I think it'll take really hitting a few Home Runs with some other kids, the new facilities and then just a lot of momentum for the program to be able to compete with the sway Askren has over the kids at AWA.

 

So when you ask me if it's one or the other, I definitely thinks it's WAY more one than the other. 

[scourge165]

19 hours ago, Gus said:

Josh Otto is at Wisconsin.

There's a couple guys from AWA who go to Wisconsin. 

They're very solid Wrestlers, but they're not the "Blue Chip" recruits.

[scourge165]

18 hours ago, jchapman said:

Correction:  99% of AWA don't go to Wisconsin.

100% of the kids who would be considered "elite." 

There are probably 4-5 "AWA" kids on the roster.

Though even that.

There was a club I wrestled at growing up when I was in...maybe  6th grade and 7th grade for 2-3 weeks each. They had 3 practices a week leading up to some of the bigger National Tournaments. 

I ran into the guy who ran it. He was a nice enough guy, but...they're generally big into self promotion. He stops me after I'd just finished Wrestling, winning this particular event and he's with 4-5 guys and he congratulates me and then announces I was a _____kid(I don't want to name it) kid! And so was my Brother and my Cousins while then asking about another kid who was a super-stud. A kid who'd Wrestle in 3 different States High School Tournaments and he says and HE was one of my guys too! 

I just kinda nodded and as I'm walking my actual coach says, "did you all actually Wrestle there." I laughed and said, "I went there probably 20 times in my life and nobody else he mentioned had.
 

The next year on the brochure all of our names were on there!

 

I get it, you want to be able to point to people who've had some level of success and say, "they trained here." 

[scourge165]

20 hours ago, Gus said:

The crazy part to me is that Reader stays with Bono. By all accounts Reader is a stand up guy.

I'm pretty sure(positive) he'd say Bono is as well 

I don't know why it's the "crazy part," to you. 

[BuckyBadger]

@scourge165thanks for the info on Askren/UW. Were you ever on the team? I was an out of state walk-on back in the day, but never knew much of the inside story why Askren had such a beef with UW. I know he has steered WI guys away for a while, but didn’t realize the extent to which he is undermining the coaching staff’s ability to recruit the state. That’s a huge hurdle to have to overcome.

[jchapman]

After Davis was gone, part of me really wanted to see Askren get the head job.  It would have been high risk/high reward.  Regardless, it would have been a ride worth watching as an alum and fan.  However, if I was an AD, I would never hire him.  I give them credit for hiring him to be the RTC coach.  That didn't work out, and gives us a good indication on how a head coaching gig would have ended up.

[BuckyBadger]

6 minutes ago, jchapman said:

After Davis was gone, part of me really wanted to see Askren get the head job.  It would have been high risk/high reward.  Regardless, it would have been a ride worth watching as an alum and fan.  However, if I was an AD, I would never hire him.  I give them credit for hiring him to be the RTC coach.  That didn't work out, and gives us a good indication on how a head coaching gig would have ended up.

Part of me wanted the same thing. I’m sure he would have been a great recruiter and gotten some serious talent in the room. But I can’t imagine he would have dealt well with the athletic department administrators etc
 

I thought when he took over as club coach it would be the best of both worlds, he’d get top guys in the room, but not have to deal with head coaching duties outside of wrestling. Obviously, it wasn’t meant to be.

Edited February 24, 2023 by BuckyBadger

[Husker_Du]

On 2/22/2023 at 8:54 AM, Gus said:

Josh Otto is at Wisconsin.

Otto went to UW before the Bono-Askren breakup

[CHROMEBIRD]

On 2/21/2023 at 5:27 PM, flyingcement said:

2025 Lineup:

125: Robbie Howard / Gary Steen / Cael Nasdeo (RS)

133: Braeden Davis

141: Beau Bartlett

149: Shayne Van Ness

157: Levi Haines

165: Alex Facundo / Joe Sealey (RS)

174: Josh Barr

184: Carter Starocci / Zack Ryder (RS)

197: Jack Kelly / Connor Mirasola (RS)

285: Greg Kerkvliet / Cole Mirasola (RS)

Did I hear correctly that Cunningham's kids are going to PSU next year? Will they be in the lineup? I don't know anything about them.

[Husker_Du]

Hayden Cunningham is a hs SR this year. Asher is a Soph. 

[scourge165]

11 hours ago, BuckyBadger said:

@scourge165thanks for the info on Askren/UW. Were you ever on the team? I was an out of state walk-on back in the day, but never knew much of the inside story why Askren had such a beef with UW. I know he has steered WI guys away for a while, but didn’t realize the extent to which he is undermining the coaching staff’s ability to recruit the state. That’s a huge hurdle to have to overcome.

No...actually, I wasn't a Badger. I went to a bordering program (that's not Iowa). I did live in Wisconsin growing up(not in HS) and live there now. I also had family who went there, who Wrestled there. I have a great deal of respect for Jon Reader as a coach. I think Bono is a good guy, but as I said, he's intense, but seems to me like he's the type of guy you want in your corner, both figuratively and literally. 

Askren is an incredible Wrestler and 2nd to none at self promotion. Look no further than him talking a kid barely cracking 200 LBs into going up to HWT(which...is NOT an easy weight in Wisconsin this year with a defending State Champ and Runner up from 220 and HWT respectively). And Sinclair going to 220 despite being ~5'8 so the top AWA guys don't wrestle each other and you have favorites at maybe 8 straight weights. 

 

But he's quick to make comments about how Wrestlers don't improve under Bono each loss. Which...if people will recall, someone said O'Toole isn't improving at Missouri after the Carr loss. He clearly is. It was more about the absurdity of Askren's comments. 

 

Ben Askren wants Nick Becker to be the Badgers HC(if it's not him). Now...Becker would make one helluva D1 HC. I really believe that. I think he could have won NCs in D1(He was undefeated his final 3 years, wrestled a little bit on the Sr circuit losing a close match to Mark Hall on criteria). And he gets the Askren stamp of approval. And he DOESN'T have anywhere near that same ego. The question is, if you're UW, how much are you willing to placate one Wrestler? Does he just get to call all the shots? And what if he and Becker get into it in the future? 

Square One...

[jchapman]

The brothers just won state championships tonight at 195 and 285.

[Formally140]

Just so it’s clear. It’s not just SDSU guys that have.. mixed opinions on Bono. Similar issues have popped up everywhere he’s gone. 
 

Wisconsin as a state is in a pickle. They finally are relevant as a hs state but none of their kids are staying. 
 

The real problem is youth culture, Askren is succeeding so we’ll because he’s powerful enough to nip the normal youth toxicity and burnout out of his clubs wrestling and development. Especially the dads. He can just kick them out and move on. He also coaches like normal kids can become elite. 
 

Almost anyone who tries to beat Askrens results and provide an alternative for Wisconsin in less than 10 years will run into the same toxic dad coach issues undercutting wrestling and he’ll still be churning out studs.

People get butthurt about what he says about youth wrestling.. but the way he’s doing things where youth doesn’t matter so much and they’re genuinely trying to create kids who actually want to wrestle for 30 years is working

[VakAttack]

It's true that the Askren name allows them to help tell toxic parents to kick rocks, which I have to assume is invaluable.

[Ivan Stankowski]

On 2/26/2023 at 12:32 AM, Formally140 said:

Just so it’s clear. It’s not just SDSU guys that have.. mixed opinions on Bono. Similar issues have popped up everywhere he’s gone. 
 

Wisconsin as a state is in a pickle. They finally are relevant as a hs state but none of their kids are staying. 
 

The real problem is youth culture, Askren is succeeding so we’ll because he’s powerful enough to nip the normal youth toxicity and burnout out of his clubs wrestling and development. Especially the dads. He can just kick them out and move on. He also coaches like normal kids can become elite. 
 

Almost anyone who tries to beat Askrens results and provide an alternative for Wisconsin in less than 10 years will run into the same toxic dad coach issues undercutting wrestling and he’ll still be churning out studs.

People get butthurt about what he says about youth wrestling.. but the way he’s doing things where youth doesn’t matter so much and they’re genuinely trying to create kids who actually want to wrestle for 30 years is working

Can someone help me understand what is being said in the last 3 paragraphs and I am not being a donkey, just trying to understand exactly what is being said here. I think I understand just look for some clarification 

On a side note the Mirasola twins looked like the real deal this past weekend 

 

Edited February 27, 2023 by Ivan Stankowski

[Wrestleknownothing]

58 minutes ago, Ivan Stankowski said:

Can someone help me understand what is being said in the last 3 paragraphs and I am not being a donkey, just trying to understand exactly what is being said here. I think I understand just look for some clarification 

On a side note the Mirasola twins looked like the real deal this past weekend 

 

Having listened to Askren on FRL talk about his youth coaching philosophy I think he means something like this (it is always risky speaking for others, but here goes).

Askren does not believe in putting very young wrestlers in tournaments and traveling all over. I do not remember what he thinks is the appropriate age to start competitions, but it is older than many. He has also talked about having parents push him to change his philosophy, and he simply tells them no and perhaps another club would work better for them (and maybe not that diplomatically). He clearly knows what he is talking about, so it is hard for parents to challenge him on this. He has the personal results to back it up, and now he has the coaching results to back it up. 

As off the wall as Askren can act sometimes, and as strange as some of his takes are on other topics, when I listen to him talk about youth wrestling he makes a ton of sense.

[Le duke]

4 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Having listened to Askren on FRL talk about his youth coaching philosophy I think he means something like this (it is always risky speaking for others, but here goes).

Askren does not believe in putting very young wrestlers in tournaments and traveling all over. I do not remember what he thinks is the appropriate age to start competitions, but it is older than many. He has also talked about having parents push him to change his philosophy, and he simply tells them no and perhaps another club would work better for them (and maybe not that diplomatically). He clearly knows what he is talking about, so it is hard for parents to challenge him on this. He has the personal results to back it up, and now he has the coaching results to back it up. 

As off the wall as Askren can act sometimes, and as strange as some of his takes are on other topics, when I listen to him talk about youth wrestling he makes a ton of sense.

Absolutely. I don't think I can say that I agree with Ben on much but his philosophy re: development makes a lot of sense to me.

The best way to make kids hate something is to bludgeon them with at from an early age. Sitting in a car traveling 8hrs each direction to wrestle at "XYZ Nationals". I cringe when I see 6U or 8U "nationals". That's insane to me. 

 

[Formally140]

6 hours ago, Ivan Stankowski said:

Can someone help me understand what is being said in the last 3 paragraphs and I am not being a donkey, just trying to understand exactly what is being said here. I think I understand just look for some clarification 

On a side note the Mirasola twins looked like the real deal this past weekend 

 

Wrestleknownothing explained it pretty well. 

I’ll also add that there are many club coaches that would do things similarly if they could. The problem is that, for 95%+ of guys, if you actually want to build a sustainable club financially. You have to cater to the parents that do the toxic stuff. They’re almost always the ones most willing to spend the money 

[Formally140]

5 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Having listened to Askren on FRL talk about his youth coaching philosophy I think he means something like this (it is always risky speaking for others, but here goes).

Askren does not believe in putting very young wrestlers in tournaments and traveling all over. I do not remember what he thinks is the appropriate age to start competitions, but it is older than many. He has also talked about having parents push him to change his philosophy, and he simply tells them no and perhaps another club would work better for them (and maybe not that diplomatically). He clearly knows what he is talking about, so it is hard for parents to challenge him on this. He has the personal results to back it up, and now he has the coaching results to back it up. 

As off the wall as Askren can act sometimes, and as strange as some of his takes are on other topics, when I listen to him talk about youth wrestling he makes a ton of sense.

Nah you explained it pretty well