Should We Invade Greenland?

[Caveira]

1 minute ago, red viking said:

Your tds has consumed your very being.  It has taken over your soul boss.     Eat a graham cracker and take a breather.  

[Scouts Honor]

it's funny

denmark doesn't want to impede china and russia in their interests in Greenland..

and don't contribute a whole lot to nato

 

but they have the time and troops to oppose trump

[El Luchador]

3 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

it's funny

denmark doesn't want to impede china and russia in their interests in Greenland..

and don't contribute a whole lot to nato

 

but they have the time and troops to oppose trump

All the European countries have sent a total a 50 troops and 1 dog sled team.

[Scouts Honor]

still...

[Scouts Honor]

how many did they send when the enemies were at the gates? 

[juniorvarsity]

I love the idea of the USA getting Greenland. It feels like a win for us citizens. Cannot do it with force though. I'm not here for these arguments about it being a sovereign nation because it isn't. 

Denmark gives Greenland a $600 billion grant each year. The USA can definitely give more. And invest a ton of money into the country. 

[headshuck]

[headshuck]

1917 acquired U.S. Virgin Islands from Denmark.

[fishbane]

15 hours ago, Scouts Honor said:

it's funny

denmark doesn't want to impede china and russia in their interests in Greenland..

and don't contribute a whole lot to nato

 

but they have the time and troops to oppose trump

I don't think it so much has to do with impeding, but leaving it up to the Greenlanders.  If Greenland wants independence they need to increase economic output.  This means trade partners outside of Denmark.  Isn't that the interest of Greenland with China and Russia?  Trade, development, and monetizing their resources?  Lots of countries do business with China including the US.  I am sure Greenland is pursuing deals China, Russia as well as with Europe and the US for economic opportunities.  They aren't negotiating with China to allow them to put a military installation on the island.

As far as increasing troops in Greenland Denmark said they are doing this in response to US criticism that they are not doing enough for security in the region.  This has been communicated to the US.  The troops are not there to defend from an invasion from an ally.  The US would not declare war on an ally.

[fishbane]

14 hours ago, juniorvarsity said:

I love the idea of the USA getting Greenland. It feels like a win for us citizens. Cannot do it with force though. I'm not here for these arguments about it being a sovereign nation because it isn't. 

Denmark gives Greenland a $600 billion grant each year. The USA can definitely give more. And invest a ton of money into the country. 

You are off by orders of magnitude in these numbers.  The Danish grant to Greenland is only about $600 million USD per year not $600 billion.  

$600 million is not an insurmountable sum for the island to produce without Denmark.  It is about $10,000/Greenlander.  That's a lot, but the island is huge.  It's 1.5x the size of Alaska.  There are deals to be made to trade natural resources with other nations.

The US offer for Greenlanders is $100k per resident which is about $6B USD.  Can Greenlanders sell their natural resources on the open market for more than $6B?  Then why would they take the deal?  Does the US offer include statehood and/or voting representation in the legislature?  If not then why take the deal?

[Scouts Honor]

29 minutes ago, fishbane said:

I don't think it so much has to do with impeding, but leaving it up to the Greenlanders.  If Greenland wants independence they need to increase economic output.  This means trade partners outside of Denmark.  Isn't that the interest of Greenland with China and Russia?  Trade, development, and monetizing their resources?  Lots of countries do business with China including the US.  I am sure Greenland is pursuing deals China, Russia as well as with Europe and the US for economic opportunities.  They aren't negotiating with China to allow them to put a military installation on the island.

As far as increasing troops in Greenland Denmark said they are doing this in response to US criticism that they are not doing enough for security in the region.  This has been communicated to the US.  The troops are not there to defend from an invasion from an ally.  The US would not declare war on an ally.

i agree, but why wasn't our ally, squelching the china and russia deals..

[Scouts Honor]

and if greenland is our ally...

[red viking]

12 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

i agree, but why wasn't our ally, squelching the china and russia deals..

Please provide evidence that Russia or China are close to invading Greenland. If they were, we could still send troops there. Regardless of whether it's part of u.s. 

Keep drinking the dumb winger Kool aid. 

[fishbane]

14 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

i agree, but why wasn't our ally, squelching the china and russia deals..

What are these China and Russia deals?  It's not like Greenland is making a deal to join either nation or allow either to build military installations.  They are an island of 60,000 residents - they aren't selling weapons to them.  I am pretty certain that this is either a deal to sell natural resources to them or a deal to allow Russian and/or Chinese companies to develop in the country.  There are tons of Chinese companies either operating in or doing trade with the US.  Why is it so problematic for Greenland to do business with them?

If Greenland wants independence they need to generate money.  They have tons of natural resources, but lake the manpower, money, and expertise to monetize it at scale.  If they are only allowed to do this with either the US or Denmark then that kind of caps the price they can get.  If they are free to sell to any buyer then then will be able to sell at market price.  China is a trading partner with 140+ countries why shouldn't Greenland trade with China?

[Rassling]

No

[Scouts Honor]

1 hour ago, fishbane said:

What are these China and Russia deals?  It's not like Greenland is making a deal to join either nation or allow either to build military installations.  They are an island of 60,000 residents - they aren't selling weapons to them.  I am pretty certain that this is either a deal to sell natural resources to them or a deal to allow Russian and/or Chinese companies to develop in the country.  There are tons of Chinese companies either operating in or doing trade with the US.  Why is it so problematic for Greenland to do business with them?

If Greenland wants independence they need to generate money.  They have tons of natural resources, but lake the manpower, money, and expertise to monetize it at scale.  If they are only allowed to do this with either the US or Denmark then that kind of caps the price they can get.  If they are free to sell to any buyer then then will be able to sell at market price.  China is a trading partner with 140+ countries why shouldn't Greenland trade with China?

what do you suppose the natural resources are used for...

[Scouts Honor]

1 hour ago, red viking said:

Please provide evidence that Russia or China are close to invading Greenland. If they were, we could still send troops there. Regardless of whether it's part of u.s. 

Keep drinking the dumb winger Kool aid. 

wow you really aren't too bright

reading is fun.

i said deals.

[fishbane]

1 minute ago, Scouts Honor said:

what do you suppose the natural resources are used for...

Producing the goods that China sells to 140+ other countries.  This stuff gets used in all kinds of products.  It's not like they are selling fissionable material or something with exclusive military uses.

What exactly is the US offering?  Just 100k/person?  Any voting rep? 

[red viking]

10 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

wow you really aren't too bright

reading is fun.

i said deals.

Greenland and Denmark have the right to do business with whomever and however they want. 

[Offthemat]

Obtaining Greenland is another case of Trump’s forward thinking.  He sees the need to get ahead of any leverage Russia or China may develop, warned about by Denmark’s security report, lessening the likelihood of a kinetic confrontation down the road.  
 

CBS tweeted, “Though President Trump mocked Greenland’s increased defense as ‘an extra dog sled,’ the Danish kingdom has plans for more Arctic naval vessels, long-range Arctic drones and the option to buy American F-35 fighter jets. NATO allies are also sending troops to Greenland now for a hastily-arranged military exercise as Arctic security heats up.”

Has plans.

I have plans of buying a Bentley. You see how that works?
 

https://donsurber.substack.com/p/what-trump-wants-from-greenland

[Offthemat]

11 minutes ago, fishbane said:

It's not like they are selling fissionable material or something with exclusive military uses.

I’m reading that uranium is one of the minerals of interest in Greenland. 

[fishbane]

24 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

I’m reading that uranium is one of the minerals of interest in Greenland. 

True but Greenland voted to band Uranium mining 5 years ago.  Back then it was the Australians doing the mining. 

https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/greenland-bans-uranium-mining-halting-rare-earths-project-2021-11-10/

[juniorvarsity]

3 hours ago, fishbane said:

You are off by orders of magnitude in these numbers.  The Danish grant to Greenland is only about $600 million USD per year not $600 billion.  

$600 million is not an insurmountable sum for the island to produce without Denmark.  It is about $10,000/Greenlander.  That's a lot, but the island is huge.  It's 1.5x the size of Alaska.  There are deals to be made to trade natural resources with other nations.

The US offer for Greenlanders is $100k per resident which is about $6B USD.  Can Greenlanders sell their natural resources on the open market for more than $6B?  Then why would they take the deal?  Does the US offer include statehood and/or voting representation in the legislature?  If not then why take the deal?

Autocorrect. I meant million.

They may want to take the deal because that $6B in natural resources doesnt go straight into the pockets of every citizen. There would be huge investments into the economy. I'm sure whatever we pay them can cover the healthcare for 50k residents, which is essentially paid for partially by the $600 million Denmark gives them annually. 

I don't think the offer is for statehood. Even if they became a state, they'd have 1 US Representstive. I would guess that Greenland would probably become a commonwealth like Puerto Rico. 

If you don't have any ties to Greenland, then why would you not want this to happen as a US citizen? We aren't invading and killing people for it.

[mspart]

3 minutes ago, juniorvarsity said:

If you don't have any ties to Greenland, then why would you not want this to happen as a US citizen? We aren't invading and killing people for it.

Yeah, I'm not for the invading and killing people part of this conversation.   I think Trump should make a real argument about why we need it and present that to the American people.   We currently don't have the  money to buy Greenland so his argument would need to be very persuasive I think.   

Fundamentally I don't have a problem with buying or leasing the island whatever, no blood or killing.   But if the Greenlanders don't want it, I say look at something else.  

But Trump may be trying to get NATO to do the work he wants done.   If they won't, then he will.   But I think he is trying to entice NATO into taking action they haven't taken yet.   

mspart

[JimmySpeaks]

Greenland is critical to long term world and US security.  In the event of a war it will be seized to ensure US safety.  Allowing the US to buy it now is a win for both sides.  Greenland and its people get paid.  The US is allowed to prepare as it sees fit for any future invasions that could come from China or Russia instead of having to adjust on the fly if something does happen. Geeenland probably gets nothing if a war happens.