Bow and Arrow

[Perry]

Anyone else think this needs to be made illegal? I didn't like watching Zain do it years ago and I didn't like seeing Dean hit it on Amos at the end of their match tonight. Just seems like an accident waiting to happen to me.

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

Yes but only when Penn State wrestlers use it

[Wrestleknownothing]

  On 1/7/2023 at 4:05 AM, Perry said:

Anyone else think this needs to be made illegal? I didn't like watching Zain do it years ago and I didn't like seeing Dean hit it on Amos at the end of their match tonight. Just seems like an accident waiting to happen to me.

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There is a solution. Go over.

Besides I can't recall anyone getting injured in a bow and arrow.

[GreatWhiteNorth]

  On 1/7/2023 at 4:05 AM, Perry said:

Anyone else think this needs to be made illegal? I didn't like watching Zain do it years ago and I didn't like seeing Dean hit it on Amos at the end of their match tonight. Just seems like an accident waiting to happen to me.

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I don't believe the sport of wrestling needs the bow and arrow.

When applied, it is usually overly aggressive and unnecessary against an opponent who has already been beat down. Typically, punishment.

Popular opinion or not, I'd like to see it go away.

[headshuck]

Yes and the banana splits.

[Wrestleknownothing]

Participation trophies seem in order.

[wrestlingphish]

  On 1/7/2023 at 4:29 AM, Wrestleknownothing said:

Participation trophies seem in order.

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Is this your new thing? If so, laaaaaaaaaaaaame!

[scorenomore]

I thought the same thing.  In particular there was a moment where dean put his knee between Braxton's back and the knee.  There was nothing that could be done except rip his leg apart.  This is 100% intentional and should be illegal.

[Antitroll2828]

This is the softest wrestling thread in the history of both wrestling and threads 

[ionel]

  On 1/7/2023 at 4:13 AM, Wrestleknownothing said:

There is a solution. Go over.

Besides I can't recall anyone getting injured in a bow and arrow.

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If Ed Ruth put you in a bow and arrow, not letting you "go over," would you be injured or just cry like you were or both? 

PS:   if you want to come down, bet I can arrange some mat time.  

Edited January 7, 2023 by ionel

[Wrestleknownothing]

  On 1/7/2023 at 4:52 AM, wrestlingphish said:

Is this your new thing? If so, laaaaaaaaaaaaame!

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Sarcasm is my second love. Behind behind bow and arrows.

[KCMO2]

  I've seen guys who could just about break your ribs with a tight waist, that doesn't make it illegal.  Bow and arrow is a tough move, but the refs can stop it any time they believe it becomes dangerous.

[Wrestleknownothing]

This forum (I include TheMat) can be a very schizophrenic. There have been multiple threads complaining that stalling on top needs to be called more because too often the top man is not attempting to turn. But now we have a thread complaining that a turning move should be against the rules.

[scourge165]

  On 1/7/2023 at 6:38 AM, Wrestleknownothing said:

This forum (I include TheMat) can be a very schizophrenic. There have been multiple threads complaining that stalling on top needs to be called more because too often the top man is not attempting to turn. But now we have a thread complaining that a turning move should be against the rules.

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Yes...a full nelson would be a turning move...and it's illegal. So we've clearly decided simply attempting to turn a guy in and of itself doesn't make a move legal.

 

  On 1/7/2023 at 5:07 AM, scorenomore said:

I thought the same thing.  In particular there was a moment where dean put his knee between Braxton's back and the knee.  There was nothing that could be done except rip his leg apart.  This is 100% intentional and should be illegal.

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This...and it was after Amos gave up 2 when his knee just buckled...so it was that same knee(didn't look serious)...but I see both sides to it. It's really not a technique, it's almost more like a submission. I don't think Amos could have put his shoulders down(which is an old coaches comment...if it hurts too bad or you can't breath, put your shoulders down).

 

[Eagle26]

I agree it should be illegal and it already is in HS. I don’t think this is being soft, it is protecting the integrity of the sport. It is essentially a submission because to get the move to work, you have to get your opponent to succumb to the pain first and then you just tip him over. If you have done this move to others or had it done to you, you know what I mean. I’ve seen some nasty power halves too, but I’m not advocating for that to be illegal because you are using leverage to try to turn him and it hurts when you fight it. This is where you can say, if it hurts too bad, just go over. Sometimes a power half is applied when the bottom guy is not in position to be turned and then it is just punishing the guy. That’s usually when the ref calls potentially dangerous. That’s fine, but I don’t like leaving the bow and arrow up for interpretation because the bottom guy is almost never in a position to be turned and it is not the move itself that gets the guy to turn, it is the act of submission that gets him to turn.

[wrestlingphish]

  On 1/7/2023 at 6:38 AM, Wrestleknownothing said:

This forum (I include TheMat) can be a very schizophrenic. There have been multiple threads complaining that stalling on top needs to be called more because too often the top man is not attempting to turn. But now we have a thread complaining that a turning move should be against the rules.

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It's almost like it's not a monolithic entity and instead consists of individuals with different a backgrounds, experiences, and opinions. F*ckin WILD man.

Edited January 7, 2023 by wrestlingphish

[Wrestleknownothing]

  On 1/7/2023 at 9:51 AM, scourge165 said:

Yes...a full nelson would be a turning move...and it's illegal. So we've clearly decided simply attempting to turn a guy in and of itself doesn't make a move legal.

 

This...and it was after Amos gave up 2 when his knee just buckled...so it was that same knee(didn't look serious)...but I see both sides to it. It's really not a technique, it's almost more like a submission. I don't think Amos could have put his shoulders down(which is an old coaches comment...if it hurts too bad or you can't breath, put your shoulders down).

 

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Your logic is circular. A full nelson is a turning move and is illegal. A bow and arrow is a turning move and is not illegal. Therefore, they are not comparable turning moves. Why is a full nelson illegal? Was it legal at one time, but now is legal?

[BaldAt23]

The bow and arrow should definitely be illegal. Great thread. 

[Dark Energy]

It is illegal in HS.  I kinda wince each time I see it applied in College.

[82bordeaux]

  On 1/7/2023 at 3:37 PM, Dark Energy said:

It is illegal in HS.  I kinda wince each time I see it applied in College.

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Jacob??? Is that you?

[Gus]

  On 1/7/2023 at 3:37 PM, Dark Energy said:

It is illegal in HS.  I kinda wince each time I see it applied in College.

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Agreed. I think it should be illegal. We stop arm bars not properly applied and there is much force applied on the bow and arrow than an improper arm bar.

[ionel]

  On 1/7/2023 at 3:44 PM, Gus said:

Agreed. I think it should be illegal. We stop arm bars not properly applied and there is much force applied on the bow and arrow than an improper arm bar.

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and why did Gable pin so many but no one does today?

[Plasmodium]

  On 1/7/2023 at 3:46 PM, ionel said:

and why did Gable pin so many but no one does today?

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Video games and participation medals killed off all the wolves.

[LJB]

  On 1/7/2023 at 5:09 AM, Antitroll2828 said:

This is the softest wrestling thread in the history of both wrestling and threads 

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And history…

[LJB]

the bow and arrow is totally legal in free all ages... up until a couple of years ago it was illegal for only the little kids... schoolboy and down... never seen anything other than a kid acting hurt because he just lost... that is not to say it is not uncomfortable...

 

last year i stopped a bow and arrow in a cadet match because it was applied to a kid who had no idea how to wrestle and that poor kid turned against it and i did not want to see his knee get ripped apart... a former world team member coach and his former high level wrestling wife both jumped all over me saying how it is not illegal... why did you stop it... blah blah blah... i explained to them both i knew it was perfectly legal and their kid did nothing wrong... but the other poor kid had no clue how to wrestle and i did not want him getting hurt just because he didn't know anything...

 

i felt the same way reading this thread...