Spencer Lee’s first interview since NCAAs

[MPhillips]

Or it was...

[ionel]

4 minutes ago, MPhillips said:

Or it was...

... or he was just hungry ...

[uncle bernard]

2 hours ago, scourge165 said:

Yes...this is exactly what I took away from it.

Basically he's not completely healthy, but he hadn't been all year and he wasn't any more injured for that mat-was the inference I got from him.

He MFF'ed out because his future was his priority...again, inferring he's not 100%, but doesn't want to use that as a crutch.

If he came out and said, "I've been rehabbing two torn ACLs this year and I wasn't in a good place physically," then he'd have gotten trashed even more. So he touched on it while emphasizing that he Ramos deserves the credit for beating him. I don't see the contradictions, just a little context.

I'm not sure what people really expected or wanted from this, but he seemed honest and genuine.
 

So many people bending over backwards to not understand a very easy to understand thing. 

[Formally140]

The mental aspect was big

[dragit]

3 hours ago, scourge165 said:

If he came out and said, "I've been rehabbing two torn ACLs this year and I wasn't in a good place physically," then he'd have gotten trashed even more. 
 

This is really helpful because I think it illustrates the different views on this.  You think he couldn't and shouldn't have said your quote above.

Whereas I think he should have said that or something like it not only yesterday but also three weeks ago to explain the MFF.  I would have thanked and certainly wouldn't have trashed him for saying what I think most people assumed was true but hadn't been said, instead of seeming to go out of his way not to confirm what seemed to be this understandable explanation that isn't an excuse.

To me he could have said your sentence, plus maybe one or two other such short declarative sentences that specified what his physical problem was and why he wasn't competing in the medal rounds, plus the many very gracious sentences he said about Ramos, and that would have been perfect.  Instead he said nothing three weeks ago and spent many more sentences giving indirect and vague information on a 100% friendly podcast.

It's like Marinelli last year MFF'ing without a direct explanation.  It looked like he might have hurt a rib and it was too painful to wrestle.  But it wasn't clear.  Why not say, Marinelli hurt his rib and it's too painful to wrestle.  Instead he said nothing and Brands gave a weird meandering answer that many inferred to mean it was more mental than physical.

Maybe I'm naive and what I'm suggesting would be roundly hated.  Probably Lee haters would hate, but they hated anyway, didn't they?  I am NOT a Lee hater, quite the opposite, and my sense is that if he'd said the above, the Lee likers and non-Lee haters who have posted some frustrations on this issue wouldn't have done so.

[98lberEating2Lunches]

4 hours ago, BAC said:

I sensed a touch of jealousy when he spoke of Jesuroga's HEW-induced ditching of wrestling to go join the Navy at the end of the interview.

I sensed Spencer's understanding that Iowa and its grind would've been the 100% wrong choice for Jesuroga, given Nate was bordering on HEW in HS when recruited.

If anything, Spencer could've been hinting admiration for Nate's actiing on non-wrestling related life goals.

Edited April 7, 2023 by 98lberEating2Lunches

[VakAttack]

4 hours ago, BAC said:

Yes of course he can, but he didn't stop there.  The issue is in the 5-10 minutes of the interview Spencer spent berating those who point to or inquire about his injury, as though it is some sort of massive personal attack on him and double-standard.  That's the part that struck me as weird.  The truth is that those hypothesizing injury after the Ramos loss or less-than-dominant wins weren't critics, they were a mix of Iowa apologists making excuses and regular wrestling fans who were just trying to explain what they'd seen.  So why so defensive?  The critics would be the ones who say "Aw Spencer's not hurt, he just lost because he sucks" (which would be a pretty rare comment), not the ones saying hey, Spencer only got a major, maybe he's still recovering or getting his lungs back or whatever.

I dunno.  Part of me thinks its just that Spencer's a guy who feeds on negativity to make himself better.  I'm not sure how healthy that is, but he's said in other interviews that he's highly self-critical and beats himself up, which is part of what pushes him to excel.  Maybe the same is true of comments from others -- i.e. even innocuous comments are recast as criticism to feed his World vs Spencer mindset that motivates him.   Far be it for me to question what works for him, but I worry about the long-term effect of that motivational strategy.  I sensed a touch of jealousy when he spoke of Jesuroga's HEW-induced ditching of wrestling to go join the Navy at the end of the interview.

ESPN literally said on air that he wasn't in the building, and people were running rampant with that narrative to demolish him, including on these boards.  I think your painting of him as a beloved figure outside of Iowa wrestling is not based in reality.

[1032004]

4 hours ago, BAC said:

Yes of course he can, but he didn't stop there.  The issue is in the 5-10 minutes of the interview Spencer spent berating those who point to or inquire about his injury, as though it is some sort of massive personal attack on him and double-standard.  That's the part that struck me as weird. 

Yeah that is weird, especially since it seems like he basically admitted they were right to think that he was injured…

[MPhillips]

I took his reaction as that not being an excuse and that he just plain lost...

[Indiana-Hawk-Wrestling-Fan]

At the end of the interview Jerry said he saw that Spencer was recently with a recruit, what recruit was he talking about ?? 

[BAC]

2 hours ago, VakAttack said:

ESPN literally said on air that he wasn't in the building, and people were running rampant with that narrative to demolish him, including on these boards.  I think your painting of him as a beloved figure outside of Iowa wrestling is not based in reality.

Not based on reality? Based on what? I’m being serious. Show me all the threads and posts where people are tagging on him just because they don’t like him. Give me an example.

I trust the ESPN reporting is not such an example, as you can’t possibly think that they made up a negative story about him. Heck a big chunk of their broadcast  was built around him and his run for 4.

He took some heat for MFF’ing out, but big-name guys will always get ragged on for doing that. That’s not a Spencer thing, that’s an if-you-ain’t-injured-you-should-suck-it-up-and-go-for-third thing. If it was more heated than usual, it’s only because it was misreported that he left the arena entirely, which is objectively critique-worthy.  (I wasn’t among them but I get it.)

Iowa wrestlers regularly have their contingent of haters since so many dislike Iowa, but Spencer always defied that mold. He was very in-Iowa-like:  having fun, likable, didn’t just push, didn’t whine about stalling, laughed and didn’t seem bitter. Has there EVER been a more universally liked Iowa wrestler? I don’t think so. 

Prove me wrong if you can, but I think the “everyone hates Spencer” narrative is totally made up. He is no Metcalf or Mocco. He is as beloved as they get. 

[scourge165]

3 hours ago, dragit said:

This is really helpful because I think it illustrates the different views on this.  You think he couldn't and shouldn't have said your quote above.

Whereas I think he should have said that or something like it not only yesterday but also three weeks ago to explain the MFF.  I would have thanked and certainly wouldn't have trashed him for saying what I think most people assumed was true but hadn't been said, instead of seeming to go out of his way not to confirm what seemed to be this understandable explanation that isn't an excuse.

To me he could have said your sentence, plus maybe one or two other such short declarative sentences that specified what his physical problem was and why he wasn't competing in the medal rounds, plus the many very gracious sentences he said about Ramos, and that would have been perfect.  Instead he said nothing three weeks ago and spent many more sentences giving indirect and vague information on a 100% friendly podcast.

It's like Marinelli last year MFF'ing without a direct explanation.  It looked like he might have hurt a rib and it was too painful to wrestle.  But it wasn't clear.  Why not say, Marinelli hurt his rib and it's too painful to wrestle.  Instead he said nothing and Brands gave a weird meandering answer that many inferred to mean it was more mental than physical.

Maybe I'm naive and what I'm suggesting would be roundly hated.  Probably Lee haters would hate, but they hated anyway, didn't they?  I am NOT a Lee hater, quite the opposite, and my sense is that if he'd said the above, the Lee likers and non-Lee haters who have posted some frustrations on this issue wouldn't have done so.

I don't necessarily think he couldn't or should have. I don't have a strong opinion on what he should have done...but yeah, I think if he'd have said after just dominating everyone, teching, pinning everyone who actually wrestled him all year and most who just tried to stall their way through, if he says, 'the injury I had when I was doing all of that, that's the reason I couldn't wrestleback' I do think people would have said he was making an excuse.

I personally thought I his knee buckle when he was in that front head position, I think that freaked him out a bit...which is why instead of hanging onto the elbow, he went around the body and lost the match...but that'd would have been an excuse, not that it wouldn't have mattered to me. But in his own video, he talks about how he's held to a different standard(true) and he's also the guy that came out and said excuses are for wusses. So I think he thought that'd be an excuse. I really think he was in a no win situation.

You're coming at it from a more rational, adult perspective, but listen to this video. When he's streaming, he has people typing, "MAT RAMOS, MAT RAMOS," in all caps, you had people making up stories about him not being there to support his teammates, he even took some shots from his teammates Mom this year.

I think as big as the knees...and I'm saying this from a place of ignorance as I don't know how bad his knee(s) were, I don't know Spencer, but I DO think it was more mental. The build up, going for a 4th Title, 3rd Hodge(which I think was his). Having gone through this before in HS...I think he was just devastated and broken.

 

I think he was just in a no win situation and honesty, his explanation was as good of one as I expected.

I also get why people want more information. This is on a whole other scale from Marinelli, BUT in the thread talking about how to grow Wrestling, I think more transparency would be good. Especially at the NCAAs. It can be intrusive and obnoxious, but the winners and the losers have to speak to the media in CFB and CBB. We get in-game updates. Here we're just left wondering. So I completely see that side of it. But that's more on the sport itself and I wouldn't hang that on Spencer. 

 

 

[scourge165]

1 hour ago, BAC said:

Not based on reality? Based on what? I’m being serious. Show me all the threads and posts where people are tagging on him just because they don’t like him. Give me an example.

I trust the ESPN reporting is not such an example, as you can’t possibly think that they made up a negative story about him. Heck a big chunk of their broadcast  was built around him and his run for 4.

He took some heat for MFF’ing out, but big-name guys will always get ragged on for doing that. That’s not a Spencer thing, that’s an if-you-ain’t-injured-you-should-suck-it-up-and-go-for-third thing. If it was more heated than usual, it’s only because it was misreported that he left the arena entirely, which is objectively critique-worthy.  (I wasn’t among them but I get it.)

Iowa wrestlers regularly have their contingent of haters since so many dislike Iowa, but Spencer always defied that mold. He was very in-Iowa-like:  having fun, likable, didn’t just push, didn’t whine about stalling, laughed and didn’t seem bitter. Has there EVER been a more universally liked Iowa wrestler? I don’t think so. 

Prove me wrong if you can, but I think the “everyone hates Spencer” narrative is totally made up. He is no Metcalf or Mocco. He is as beloved as they get. 

I don't think he was saying he was hated in the sport, but...he was the biggest name in the sport this year. Sure, he and Yianni were going for 4, but the spotlight on him was MUCH brighter. A lot of people loved him and respected the hell out of him, but a lot of people also wanted to see him fail. I got text messages from people just giddy after he lost who were at the D1s this year...and there were quite a few people mocking him. 

I think you're understating how many people were rooting for him and I think the difference with Spencer was there were very few people who have no interest one way or the other. Just being the biggest storyline going into the Tourney, Iowa's first 4-Timer, going for his 3rd Hodge(which I think he wins easily if he wins it). It's not that MOST people hated him, it's that people are dicks and there were an awful lot of people who wanted to see him lose. 

 

It's not like the contingent of fans rooting AGAINST Real Woods, it was much louder and much more visceral.

I don't think he was "as beloved as they get," though. Cael was loved by most when he wrestled, Dake was popular(he may have been more on par with Lee if he was an Iowa guy). David Taylor, Gable Stevenson, they all seemed to be pretty "beloved."

Lee is kinda in a group of his own. Maybe some old school guys remember a better comparison, but I think, again, comparing him to Yianni, there were far less hardcore fans of Lee and a LOT more people hoping he'd fail...for whatever reason. 

[CHROMEBIRD]

Good, timely interview to put a lot of questions to rest. You can tell what a great kid Spencer is. My takeaway is that he's accepted the loss and has moved past it, but is very much bothered by fans on both sides. How many times did he bring up annoying fans questioning or defending him? You can tell that he reads what we say online and that he gets annoyed. Rise above the noise, Spencer! 

[El Luchador]

Spencer cost me points by not wrestling back. He's dead to me.

[ExBSUfan]

4 minutes ago, El Luchador said:

Spencer cost me points by not wrestling back. He's dead to me.

I’m sure he’s sorry for the points he lost for you. I imagine he’s more concerned about that then his own health.

[AgaveMaria]

Says to credit Ramos for winning and he was not injured.

If he had won the match - would have have MFF out of the Title bout?

Face it, he quit. Can't win it all, take my marbles and go home!

No real Medical Forfeit - spencer just quit. A sad example for Iowa wrestling.

[VakAttack]

57 minutes ago, AgaveMaria said:

Says to credit Ramos for winning and he was not injured.

If he had won the match - would have have MFF out of the Title bout?

Face it, he quit. Can't win it all, take my marbles and go home!

No real Medical Forfeit - spencer just quit. A sad example for Iowa wrestling.

Hey @BAC, here's an example!  There were a bunch of threads expressing similar sentiments.

[BAC]

1 hour ago, VakAttack said:

Hey @BAC, here's an example!  There were a bunch of threads expressing similar sentiments.

LOL yeah but those are MFF threads. That’s my point.  Anyone who bails on wrestlebacks at NCAAs, especially in a podium race, is gonna catch some heat unless they are clearly hurt. Thats not anti-Spencer, it’s despite it being Spencer. Have any non-MFF examples?

[Dark Energy]

Vak just gave you an example of a Lee hater post.  The guy even started a thread on the board to get his anti-Lee jollies out there.  
 

And now you say that this is not a good enough example.  LOL.  The guy is clearly a hater.

[BAC]

35 minutes ago, Dark Energy said:

Vak just gave you an example of a Lee hater post.  The guy even started a thread on the board to get his anti-Lee jollies out there.  
 

And now you say that this is not a good enough example.  LOL.  The guy is clearly a hater.

My point was that there was isn’t some double standard where everyone is crapping in Lee while everyone else gets a pass. To the contrary Lee is one of the most well liked wrestlers of this generation. It’s like Mary Lou Retton giving an interview and being like “omg everyone hates me it’s so unfair.”  Give me a freaking break.

I don’t know Agave but… hater? He is the same guy who was starting a bunch of excuse threads for Lee during NCAAs, saying naw man he is clearly hurt, he’s gotta MFF:   https://intermatforums.com/topic/1525-lee-is-injured/#comment-38790

His tune only changed when it started to look like he wasn’t newly injured after all. That’s fair game — following the facts — not being a hater. My challenge was to find anti-Lee threads/posts *besides* the MFF issue. 

But whatever. I’m not saying there are none as I’m sure there are people out there who don’t like the kid, because no one has 100% likability. That doesn’t change the fact that he is one of the most popular wrestlers of his generation, and the idea that the whole world outside of Iowa is against him is absurd. 

 

Edited April 8, 2023 by BAC

[Dark Energy]

Both things can be true - there are many many many people that have enjoyed Spencer Lee’s wrestling, consider him to be a good person, are fans, have cheered him, and recognize the pressure has felt.

And — there are plenty of people that have written nasty and mean spirited posts, with the intent to make Spencer look bad, annoy his fan base, or to make themselves feel better.  Intent isn’t very clear when it is read by the person being slammed.

[scourge165]

12 hours ago, BAC said:

My point was that there was isn’t some double standard where everyone is crapping in Lee while everyone else gets a pass. To the contrary Lee is one of the most well liked wrestlers of this generation. It’s like Mary Lou Retton giving an interview and being like “omg everyone hates me it’s so unfair.”  Give me a freaking break.

I don’t know Agave but… hater? He is the same guy who was starting a bunch of excuse threads for Lee during NCAAs, saying naw man he is clearly hurt, he’s gotta MFF:   https://intermatforums.com/topic/1525-lee-is-injured/#comment-38790

His tune only changed when it started to look like he wasn’t newly injured after all. That’s fair game — following the facts — not being a hater. My challenge was to find anti-Lee threads/posts *besides* the MFF issue. 

But whatever. I’m not saying there are none as I’m sure there are people out there who don’t like the kid, because no one has 100% likability. That doesn’t change the fact that he is one of the most popular wrestlers of his generation, and the idea that the whole world outside of Iowa is against him is absurd. 

 

You should go on social media. There was an a huge double standard. Largely...because people didn't know a lot of the other Wrestlers wrestling.

Casual Wrestling fans didn't care about other guys MFFs. They knew about Spencer Lee and he got the shit. 

This isn't even in dispute.

Also, among the diehards. There weren't people asking why there was a MFF at 184 and where was Trey Munoz and a fake story about Trey Munoz leaving the City. 

Quote

It’s like Mary Lou Retton giving an interview and being like “omg everyone hates me it’s so unfair.”

Yeah, but he didn't do anything like that. He did say there were much higher expectations for him, he tried to downplay the injury and talk about how much of a stud Ramos is.

The kid had to try and walk a razor thin line without sounding like he was making excuses and diminishing his opponents and also trying to be honest.

I'm no ta big Iowa fan. I'm not a particularly big Spencer Lee fan. I thought he did as well as he could have. 

 

Finally, you keep saying, "shoe me all the threads." Social Media is bigger than just this forum or any of the Wrestling forums. The shit on Twitter was ruthless. The people going onto his stream were people who I assume went out of their way to talk shit to him just...because they're bored pathetic people(he talked about streaming while playing video games...which is a weird concept to me, but also a very real thing that people make insane amounts of money for...watching someone else play video games...which has to be a new era of lazy in this country). 

[CHROMEBIRD]

He could also be keeping his cards close to his chest with the US Open around the corner. Spencer said he and the HWC coaches haven't decided yet if he will go but I was very surprised (but at the same time not) that he hasn't had any mat time at all since Nationals. The Open is less than 4 weeks out.

[Bardamu911]

"if the rule is who quits first then Austin DeSanto would be Olympic champ." 

 

hahaha Spencer's got jokes