fishbane

It's possible. High School, middle school, elementary school, pre-school...

There was an in depth feature on the Jordan and the scandal in the Washington Post a couple years ago when Jordan was attempting to become speaker of the house. Below is the link to it. One can circumvent the paywall by changing to reader view in their browser. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/interactive/2023/jim-jordan/ This was the satement from Jordan's office when the scadal came to light in 2018 “Congressman Jordan never saw any abuse, never heard about any abuse, and never had any abuse reported to him during his time as a coach at Ohio State.”

Vent=ventllator. It's a device that moves air into the lungs. Used when the lungs are unable to take in enough air on their own. ECMO=extracorporeal membrane oxygenation. It's an external device. Blood is pumped from the paitient into the ECMO machine which ooxygenates its and then pumps it back into the patient. It's like a set of external artificial lungs/heart. Could also be used if the heart is too weak to move the blood on its own.

I think that is a different species of strep, Streptococcus pyogenes. Prevnar is one of the commercial available pneumococcal vaccines. These vaccines first became available about 25 years ago and are only reccomended for young children, old people, and those at high risk. Given Askren's age when it was released and current age it's unlikely he would have received it. After this he would almost certainly be in the high risk category especially if he has a lung replacement.

That is not his district anymore. It changed for the 2022 election. Now it has a more reasonable shape. Setting that aside I doubt it was ever gerrymandered to keep him in power. Gerrymandering done most effectively will typically try and put likely voters for the opposing party in a few "safe" districts and divide the rest of the state such that they are close, but with an edge for the party drawing the lines. It wouldn't make sense for Republicans to draw the lines to give Jordan a better chance of winning. Jordan has won every election by at least ~20% points over his Dem rival. It would make more sense for Republicans to draw his district in a convoluted way to include more likely Democratic voters so he only wins by 5-10% and the Republicans can make one of the 5 seats held by Democrats more competitive. The last election (2020) under the old districts Republicans had a 12-4 majority. Currently they only have a 10-5 majority. So it is ostensibly less gerrymandered in favour of republicans and Jordan is still winning by 35-40 points. Republicans would have been the ones drawing the lines in both 2011 and 2021.

If his pneumonia was caused by staph then there isn't a commercially avaialble vaccine for that particular bacteria. One of the most common causes of necrotizing pneumonia according to your wikipedia link is Streptococcus pneumoniae bacteria. There have been commercially available vaccines for that bacteria for over 20 years. So my point is that without knowing the cause(s) of Askren's pneumonia there is no way to know if a vaccine exists that might have prevented it. It all seemed pretty speculative one way or the other to me.

I thought maybe you only did the 6 that were top 3. Welsh was 6 on Flo's big board. Looks like Willie got it right here.

I think that back in 2022 when he was still at Minnesota. Kasak has a cadet/U17 world silver from before PSU too. I was listing accomplishments from this freestyle season.

Welsh was #6 in his class and though not on the national team was in the list you quoted. I think it's a surprise to have 6 athletes with college eligibility left on the senior national team much less all on the same team with multiple years left. In 2023 the top three in men's freestyle were as follows. Eight with eligibility left and no more than 2 on the same team. This is also a little skewed due to COVID Brooks, Camacho, Sasso, and Steveson were all class of 2018 and Arujau and Fix were class of 2017. Only O'Toole and Trumble were within 5 years of graduating high school. All 6 of PSU's senior national team members are. 57kg 1. Zane Richards 2. Thomas Gilman 3. Nick Suriano/Jacob Camacho 61kg 1. Vito Arujau 2. Nashon Garrett 3. Daton Fix 65kg 1. Nick Lee 2. Yianni Diakomihalis 3. Joseph McKenna 70kg 1. Zain Retherford 2. Tyler Berger 3. Sammy Sasso 74kg 1. Kyle Dake 2. Jason Nolf 3. Keegan O'Toole 79kg 1. Chance Marsteller 2. Jordan Burroughs 3. Alex Dieringer 86kg 1. David Taylor 2. Aaron Brooks 3. Zahid Valencia/Mark Hall 92kg 1. Zahid Valencia 2. Michael Machiavello 3. Kollin Moore 97kg 1. Kyle Snyder 2. J'Den Cox 3. Isaac Trumble 125kg 1. Gable Steveson 2. Mason Parris 3. Nick Gwiazdowski

I meant 4th on the ladder. 3rd at the open is 4th on the ladder since Arujau was sitting at Final X. Open runner-up Seth Gross had beaten Blaze earlier in the tournament so there was no need for a true second/third at that weight. Unlike 57kg where the open runner up and 3rd place finisher did not meet in the tournament. So, Cronin and Provo wrestled for true third at 57kg at final x. 61KG ladder is 1 - TBD Forrest/Arujau 2- TBD Forrest/Arujau 3 - Seth Gross 4 - Marcus Blaze

PSU will have 2 senior world team members and 6 Senior national team members on their NCAA roster. When was the last time a team had as many? Additionally they have 4 other wresters on age group world teams: Blaze (61kg U20), Duke (70kg U20), Henckel (79kg U20), Connor Mirasola (92kg U20), Cole Mirasola (125kg, U20), Welsh (86kg U23) and Welsh is also on the senior ladder somewhere having finished 5th at senior nationals 86kg. They will also have 2024 61kg world champ Masanosuke Ono and Joe Sealy who was 3rd at the U20 trials in the room. A crazy accomplished team in freestyle. 57kg Lilledahl 2nd 61kg none (Blaze 4th) 65kg Marcus Blaze 3rd 70kg PJ Duke 1st 74kg Mesenbrink 2nd 79kg Haines 1st 86kg None (Welsh 5th at senior nationals) 92kg Barr 2nd 97kg None 125kg None

I really don't know about the dual. OSU and Fresno wrestled a dual on 1/31/1998 in Stillwater. OSU won 39-4. I couldn't find individual results for that match, but based on the team score it's theoretically possible either wrestler won though I reckon it's less likely Abas beat Moore by bonus to get 4 than Moore winning a regular decision. The All-Star match was on 2/2/1998 in Buffalo, NY. Perhaps neither wrestled in the dual electing to postpone the match two days?

It would be classless for someone to dunk on or say I told you so to a person in Askren's condition. I don't know what caused Askren's pneumonia. I don't what vaccines he may have taken. And I don't know what he has said one way or the other on the topic of vaccines. Regardless I hope he makes a full recovery. Pneumonia can be caused by ether a virus or bacteria. There are vaccines available for some of the viruses that cause it. There is also a vaccine available for the pneumococcus bacteria - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pneumococcal_vaccine

Did Abas lose to Moore in the Dual in January 1998? If so I think Abas lost 4 matches his redshirt freshman year. He also lost to Moore in the All Star Classic on 2/2/1998. I thought the all-star classic counted as an official match back then, but maybe not. 1998 All Star Classic 118 Teague Moore - Oklahoma State Defeated Stephen Abas - Fresno State 9-8 Abas had defeated Moore at CKLV in 1997, the 1999 All star classic, and the NCAA semis in 1999. They definitely didn't wrestle in the dual in the 1998-99 season - Abas went up and wrestled Guerrero. I don't know if they wrested at CKLV in 1998, but if they did Abas won. He was the first to win 4 CKLV titles. Logan Stieber was the second though it took him 5 attempts. That should cover all their folkstyle meetings in college. 1999 All Star Classic 125 Stephen Abas - Fresno State Defeated Teague Moore - Oklahoma State 5-4

Has it been definitively confirmed that Askren developed the pneumonia from staph or is that still a rumor? Though potentially not relevant to Askren's condition, pneumonia can be caused by viruses such as influenza and coronavirus. There are vaccines available for both of those viruses.

The reason for mentioning not wrestling Glory and the relatively weak competition Lee faced in 2020 and 2021 was two fold. It refutes the FRL presumption that Lee had a tougher schedule than Abas. It also brings into question how healthy and unaffected Lee was with a torn ACL. Looking dominant against lesser competition doesn't mean he wasn't limited by the injury. Lee wrestled his senior year in high school with a torn ACL. He was dominant and a prohibitive favorite when he lost to DeSanto in the state final.

You keep inventing things that I am not arguing to argue against. I never said Lee wasn't or shouldn't have been a big favorite to win in 2020. Lee has been the favorite in every match he has ever lost before 2024. I never said that Lee was afraid of Glory. I said you mischaracterized that Spencer Lee wrestled the whole season, was healthy, and was in peak shape. He was on a pitch count, had a torn acl, and though he looked great he didn't wrestle the top contenders in either folkstyle or freestyle.

Pitch count and defaulting out of Midlands != Wrestled full season Torn ACL, Knee brace, pitch count, and defaulting out of Midlands != healthy

Pitch count and skipping two matches at the Midlands does not sound like he wrestled the entire season. I am sure the story they were telling at the time was the pitch count to prepare for the Olympics and definitely not any injury. It wasn't until the after the 2021 NCAA final and having torn the other one that Lee disclosed the ACL tear in the 2019 NCAA finals. The fact that he had a torn ACL and was skipping matches both point to him being not fully fit. He was impressive at that Olympic Trials qualifier in December. I had forgotten the match with Vito. He was wearing something on that knee during the match, but it appeared to be soft - a very "light" brace. Maybe that was a bad idea or they had the pitch count too high because his next event was Midlands where he defaulted out and by the end of the season he was wearing the full blown knee brace in the Big Ten final. Ultimately one can only speculate on how Lee could have done at the Olympic Trials. Although he was impressive in winning that qualifier the favorites to make the team were not there as they had already qualified. Abas wrestled at the trials in 2000 and lost in the challenge tournament final finishing 3rd on the ladder. I am sure Spencer Lee was as unafraid of Pat Glory as Stephen Abas was unafraid of Jeremy Hunter (2000 NCAA Champ), Jody Stritmatter (2000 #1 seed NCAAs, 3rd place finisher, and Midlands runner-up) , and Teague Moore (2000 Midlands champ). Abas probably skipped Midlands because he was focusing on freestyle and his team was not attending. He also didn't have the same incentive to wrestle an NCAA season as Lee. Iowa had not won an NCAA team title in ten years and PSU was rebuilding that year. Lee could have been the difference between winning a team title. Indeed that would be the case in 2021. Had Lee skipped the 2020-21 season to try and prepare for the delayed Olympics Iowa would not have won NCAAs. Iowa's margin of victory was only 15.5 points. If Abas was potentially the difference between Fresno winning a team title in 2000 he may have tried to do both as well.

He defaulted out of Midlands twice. In 2020 he did it without losing. He also did it his freshman year after losing to Ronnie Bresser.

If you're referring to what I said, that wasn't it. I disagreed with your assessment that that season Lee "wrestled the entire season and was healthy and in prime shape." He wrestled with one ACL having torn the other one in the 2019 NCAA final. He defaulted out of the Midlands choosing not to wrestle Pat Glory. How is that healthier than 2019 where he wrestled the entire year save for part of one match with two ACLs. My suspicion is that is that Lee wasn't healthier or better in his Hodge winning seasons (2019-2020 and 2020-2021) than the others, but that he wrestled an abbreviated schedule against much weaker competition.

This is a bit of a mischaracterization of 2020. If I recall Lee had torn an ACL in the 2019 NCAA final with Jack Mueller, so he would have been wrestling with 1 ACL. He also medically defaulted out of Midlands where he would have faced Pat Glory. Glory finished the season undefeated and was the 2 seed that year. Which brings up the point that Lee was largely untested that year. The only wrestler he faced that season that AAed in 2018,2019, 2021, or 2022 was Nick Piccininni. This was in part because of all the guys that sat out with an Olympic redshirt (Suriano, Arujau) like Abas did in 2000, but even relative to the field that year he had a weak schedule. His only opponents that where seeded in the top 10 at NCAAs were Piccininni and Devin Schroder. This brings to mind Pyles's earlier point that the Big Ten schedule would be tougher than what Abas faced wrestling for Fresno State. The Big Ten was tough at 125 Lee's first two years (Lizak, Rivera, Suriano, and Tomasello), but 2020, 2021, and 2023 it was pretty weak. The top guys were Ramos, McKee, Barnett, DeAugustino, Cronin, Foley, and Schroder. The extra years with the older guys did not add much difficulty compared with the first two. I think Abas would have been untroubled by such a schedule.

Today on FRL Pyles briefly revisited 125/Spencer Lee and he said something like they should only evaluate Lee's "4 year window" which he regarded at 2018, 2019, 2020, and 2021. He reasoned Lee was as good as it gets during that time and it was before the injury redshirt. Often the current wrestlers will have extra years that need to be adjusted in some way when comparing past wrestlers who were largely on the same 4 in 5 track but surprisingly that isn't really necessary with Abas. Abas did the old school double redshirt using an Olympic year. After graduating high school, Abas's NCAA career went Redshirt-4-1-Olympic Redshirt-1-1 and Lee was 1-1-COVID-1-Redshirt-6. So they were both in their 6th year out of high school at their last NCAAs.

Additionally Abas made world teams whilst still in college. He was the rep in 2001 and 2002. 2002 was the year Abas graduated. The US didn't send a team to Iran in 2001. At the time I recall Abas wanting defy the boycott and travel on his own to the world champioships.

One point Pyles made on FRL regarding 125 was a perceived difficulty difference in the schedule Abas wrestled at Fresno vs Lee at Iowa. He didn't really look at it in depth but more took it as a given and I'm not sure that's the case. Abas was the first wrestler to win 4 CKLV titles. No one else did it until Logan Stieber. Spencer Lee's biggest regular season tournament wins are the UNI Open and the Soldier Salute. The years Lee went to Midlands he either lost or defaulted out. Abas also wrestled in the All Star classic 2x and the National Duals once. Iowa has largely opted out of these events during Spencer Lee's tenure. Abas also famously lost to Eric Guerrero at 133 in a dual, so they were wrestling some top teams in duals too. If Abas wrestled more matches and hit big events like CKLV, National Duals, and the NCWA All Star Classic it's probably a wash, no?