fishbane

I don't think Nickal was scared of Taylor in 2019. Nickal was coming off a season at 197lbs and he weighed 92kg. Whether he picked 86, 92, or 97kg the path wasn't going to be easy. The options were 86kg/David Taylor, 92kg/J'den Cox, and 97kg/Kyle Snyder. Nickal was scared of Taylor so he went 92Kg where he'd have to beat Cox? Cox had beaten DT for the 86kg spot in 2017 and won the world title at 92kg in 2018. Making that choice out of fear of Taylor doesn't make much sense. NLWC didn't really have anyone at 92kg or 97kg that freestyle season. Kyle Snyder was still at Ohio RTC. Their only 92kg was Riley Lefever who wasn't a PSU alum and wasn't among the favorites to contend for the spot. Nickal had some kind of training relationship with Taylor, but maybe less so with Lefever. Taylor took him to Budapest as his training partner in 2018. Going 86kg means you have to beat the world champ and Taylor isn't going to be practicing with you or helping you anymore. Staying at 92kg you still have to beat a world champ that is just as good, but you get to practice with David Taylor everyday. The idea that Taylor had definitely decided he wasn't wrestling at Final X between his injury at BTS (May 6) and the start of the WTT (May 17) and intentionally withheld that information so that Nickal wouldn't give up his bye at 92kg and cut down always seemed really cynical to me. Taylor barely had time to get some opinions and assess what he was capable of doing. If Taylor actually did that and told Nickal that's what he did then Nickal has the right to be upset about it.

Nothing you said contradicted anything I said. Your point seems to be that building through the draft is preferred in professional sports. That is probably true for the NBA and to a lesser extent some of the other leagues, but I never said anything about how the players were acquired just that that's where the money should be spent. Furthermore, there is also no draft mechanism (currently) in NCAA sports so it is not an option. NCAA GMs/coaches can only sign free agents. Regardless of how the players are acquired, Draft or free agency, they have far more negotiating power than the coaches in the NBA and all top professional leagues. The highest paid NBA players get ~$60 million/year and the highest paid coaches ~$17M. If you order all the players and coaches by annual salary no coach would be in the top 100. The salaries of the top players are artificially suppressed by the CBA, but there is no CBA for coaches. Teams are free to pay a coach whatever they want and whatever the market determines. Coaches that have won multiple championships; Greg Popovich, Steve Kerr, Erik Spoelstra, only make ~$15-17M. If hiring the best coach was the path to a championship these guys would command more for their services. The ceiling for coaches' salaries in the NBA is where it is because they are largely replaceable. The Boston Celtics are an example of this. The coach is replaceable whilst the star players - Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown are not. The Celtics initially acquired the duo with Brad Stevens as the coach and they were very good. Made the conference finals twice with them in the lineup. Then when Stevens was elevated to GM one of his former assistant coaches who had never been a head coach in the NBA before, Ime Udoka, took them to the NBA finals in his first season. Udoka then left to go to the Rockets where he has yet to make it past the first round of the playoffs and one of his assistants, Joe Mazzulla, became head coach. Mazzulla had never been a head coach before and in his second season the Celtics won the NBA championship. There is a reason Tatum and Brown are each paid $50M+/year and Mazzulla ~$5M. Their relative salaries are easily explained; replacing Mazzulla is relatively easy, but replacing Tatum or Brown would be very difficult and costly. Getting a Cael Sanderson type player in the NBA would be even better than either Tatum or Brown. It would be one of the GOATS. It would be more like a LeBron James. James has taken teams to the NBA finals under 5 different coaches. When he left Cleveland the first time the Cavs went from having the league's best record to winning 19 games with a roster largely unchanged apart from James. When he left the second time, a team largely unchanged from the one that had lost in the NBA finals, apart from James, again won only 19 games. LeBron James was the difference between being one of the best teams in the league and winning only 19 of 82 games twice.

There are probably more meaningful ways for someone to exceed Sanderson's NCAA career than just winning one more match. One more win is a record but doesn't more the needle much. Sanderson was perfect. One could win 5 NCAA titles. Have an undefeated redshirt season. Undefeated 4xer without a redshirt. Win 4 Hodge trophies. Outscore Sanderson at NCAAs (107.5 team points). Win a world/Olympic title in college. All those those things can be done wrestling a modern schedule.

The thing is that the only teams with money to throw are throwing it at both coaches and wrestlers. OSU has some of the highest paid coaches and wrestlers. Same story at Iowa and PSU. The question is if you only have room in the budget for one. Would David Taylor be getting the top recruits at OSU if he was given a shoestring budget for wrestler acquisition?

They had the best single combined NCAA tournament of any Lehigh duo, but several are in contention for best 1-2. The next closest in terms of team point production at a single tournament were Mark Lieberman and Mike Brown in 1979. On the year Brown and Liberman were more impressive. Brown was 21-3 with 15 bonus wins and Lieberman 21-0 with 20 bonus wins, whilst Rohn was 30-5 with 18 bonus wins and Trenge 34-4 with 17 bonus wins. Rohn had a great NCAA tournament but came in the as 8 seed. Lieberman was the 1 seed, and Brown and Trenge were both 2 seeds. Caruso and Pertiore are probably the best Lehigh 1-2 over the course of a career. Caruso won three titles at 123 and Petitore went 2-2-3 up a weight at 130 during the same period. Petriore's first two years he lost to Uetake in the final. His senior year he was the 1 seed and was upset by David McGuire who went on to win the tournament. Caruso and Peritore only lost 6 matches combined in their career and each had winning pct. over 90%. They were also back to back in the lineup 3/3 years which is more than Lieberman and Brown (3/4), and Rohn and Trenge (2/4). Probably the best Lehigh 1-2 punch all things considered. 2002: Rob Rohn (1st 184), John Trenge (2nd 197); Total (28+23=51) 1979: Mark Lieberman (1st 177), Mike Brown (2nd 190); Total (29+20=49) 1983: Pete Schuyler (3rd 134), Darryl Burley (1st 142); Total (18+24=42) 1978: Mark Lieberman (1st 177), Mike Brown (3rd 190); Total (22+18=40) 1967: Mike Caruso (1st 123), Joe Peritore (3rd 130); Total (23+15.5=38.5) 1965: Mike Caruso (1st 123), Joe Peritore (2nd 130); Total (20*+16=36) 1965: Joe Peritore (2nd 130), Bill Stuart (1st 137); Total (16+20=36) 1966: Mike Caruso (1st 123), Joe Peritore (2nd 130); Total (20*+16=36) 1976: Bob Sloand (4th 126), Mike Frick (1st 134); Total (13.5+21=34.5) 1974: Mike Frick (4th 126), Tom Sculley (1st 134); Total (14+20=34) 1965: Rich Warnke (4th 115), Mike Caruso (1st 123); Total (12.5+20*=32.5) *Caruso had a R32 bye in 1965 and 1966 which limited his bonus point potential. Career NCAA Team point production/Record Lieberman-Brown: (31.5+40+49=120.5), (2-Titles, 2-2nds, 1-3rd, 1-5th)/141-11 .928 Caruso-Peritore: (36+36+38.5=110.5), (3-Titles, 2-2nds, 1-3rd)/113-6-1 .942 Rohn-Trenge: (1^+51=52), (1-Title, 1-2nd)/123-25 .831 ^Trenge did not wrestle in the 2001 NCAA tournament despite qualifying. Rohn was the 11 seed and DNP.

The landscape is changing. Under pay-for-play an AD might be better served by looking at what has worked for their professionals counterparts (MLB, NFL, NBA, NHL, and Soccer GMs) that achieved a high level of success rather than past NCAA dynasties. Considering how the national title is decided in wrestling a few great individuals can make an outsized difference. Analysts call the NBA a players' league because 3-4 superstars can win a title and, as such, a single superstar player wields great bargaining power - far more than any coach. The impact of a single wrestler can have on the team standings at NCAAs points to it being a players' league too.

I dunno, guys try and fit around teammates sometimes to their detriment. You saw it with Starocci and Brooks in 2024 though Starocci ultimately failed to make 74kg and Taylor has said he regrets not moving up sooner. Presumably he stayed at 165 because it was best for the lineup. If Nickal thought he was the best in the world he might have also thought he could win at 97kg. Back in 2019-2021 I thought the Taylor-Nickal beef was manufactured by fans and pundits. I thought Nickal was going up to 97kg regardless and there was nothing wrong with Taylor taking the wrestle-off extension. This is the first I've seen Nickal seemingly acknowledge having a problem with it the wrestle-off extension. Could be more regret for his own decision projected at Taylor.

It's a bold claim to make no doubt, but it should be taken seriously. He is one of a few people in this country who could say he is going to beat Taylor and be taken seriously. He was the runner up for he 86kg spot in 2021. In the past several wrestlers have taken off 4ish years from competition in their mid-to-late 20s and returned to contend for the spot. Terry Brands, Stephen Abas, Randy Lewis, Dan Dennis, etc. I won't listen to the podcast, but if he wrestles David Taylor I'd watch.

He might feel as though it cost him his shot at the Olympics. That can stick with a person. Probably a lot of old timers still upset with Jimmy Carter for the 1980 Summer games.

That's true, but when session was defined it was all about reporting and didn't have any impact on writing off losses. The IRS could adjust that definition without new legislation to give some relief to sports gamblers, but it wouldn't matter much overall. I would think that at least multiple bets on the same sporting event should count as 1 session, but then again these bets are often made weeks apart. Bet a long shot to win the Superbowl in the preseason when the odds are long and then when they actually make it to the big game place a hedge on their opposition.

Then why didn't the last administration release it? This is probably not the case. Perhaps Elon Musk's America Party will sweep the next couple elections and release the files to prove you correct.

This would essentially shut down gambling as a profession. What game is a 10% player edge possible? The casino industry must be freaking out. I guess you can still report net winnings per gambling session. For example if you play two $1000 hands of black jack winning one and losing the other you'd had $0 taxable income. Do the same thing a month apart and that's $100 in taxable income.

I have Askren at 26 teams points and Pell at 22.5 in 2007 using today's scoring and omitting any pigtails. That's a total of 48.5 which is more than many national champion 1-2s. Pretty sure that's the most for a Missouri 1-2 at NCAAs, but Pell had an unexpectedly good tournament that year. He placed 3rd from the 8 seed with 4 falls. Interesting how often Missouri wrestlers dropped weight back then. Pell dropped from 184 to 165 that aeason, Raymond Jordan was the 184 that year but would later drop to 174, and Max Askren was the 197. Max would later drop to 184 where he won a national title.

That's pretty good, but PSU could have 7 different 1-2-3 combos that outscore this one at NCAAs. PSU's 5 back to back champs in 2017 is the only 1-2-3-4-5 punch combo of champs.

Here are the NCAA point totals as scored from the round of 32 using a 1.5 point TF for all 15 point wins and the current placement point allocation for all pairs of champs at back to back weights since 1970 inclusive. The 2000-present best Iowa 1-2s are also included. The list is ordered by combined team points first than year. The minimum number of team points from two champs is 40 (assuming no subtractions and zero bonus) and the maximum is 60 (all pinfalls). No one pair hit the maximum. The closest a single wrestler was to the max in the set was David Taylor in 2012 with 29.5. One pair hit the minimum - Steve Marianetti and Ernest Benion both won titles in 1995 without scoring a single bonus point. 2012: David Taylor (1st 165), Ed Ruth (1st 174); Total (29.5+26.5=56) 2017: Zain Retherford (1st 149), Jason Nolf (1st 157); Total (28+27=55) 1973: Wade Schalles (1st 158), Bill Simpson(1st 167); Total (28+24=52) 1983: Ed Banach (1st 190), Lou Banach (1st Unl); Total (25+27=52) 1992: Tom Brands (1st 134), Troy Steiner (1st 142); Total (25+26.5=51.5) 1972: Ben Peterson (1st 190), Chris Taylor (1st Unl); Total (27+24=51) 1986: Kevin Dresser (1st 142), Jim Heffernan (1st 150); Total (26+25=51) 2019: Bo Nickal (1st 197), Anthony Cassar (1st 285): Total (27+24=51) 1992: Terry Brands (1st 126), Tom Brands (1st 134); Total (25.5+25=50.5) 2005: Johny Hendricks (1st 165), Chris Pendleton (1st 174); Total (25+25.5=50.5) 2024: Aaron Brooks (1st 197), Greg Kerkvliet (1st 285); Total (27+23.5=50.5)* 2017: Jason Nolf (1st 157), Vincenzo Joseph (1st 165); Total (27+23=50) 2017: Mark Hall (1st 174), Bo Nickal (1st 184); Total (22.5+27.5=50) 1975: Chuck Yagla (1st 150), Pat Holm (1st 158); Total (25+24.5=49.5) 1997: Lincoln McIlravy (1st 150), Joe Williams (1st 158); Total (24+25.5=49.5) 1970: Jason Smith (1st 167), Chuck Jean (1st 177); Total (25+24=49) 1982: Dave Schultz (1st 167), Mark Schultz (1st 177); Total (24+25=49) 1970: Dwayne Keller (1st 126), Darrell Keller (1st 134); Total (25.5+23=48.5) 1990: Terry Brands (1st 126), Tom Brands (1st 134); Total (23.5+24.5=48) 2018: Zain Retherford (1st 149), Jason Nolf (1st 157); Total (25+23=48) 1980: Joe Gonzales (1st 118), John Azevedo (1st 118); Total (24.5+23=47.5) 1984: Jim Scherr (1st 177), Bill Scherr (1st 190); Total (20**+27.5=47.5) 1996: Joe Williams (1st 158), Daryl Weber (1st 167); Total (22.5+25=47.5) 1987: Tim Krieger (1st 150), Stewart Carter (1st 158); Total (22+25=47) 1998: Teague Moore (1st 118), Eric Guerrero (1st 126); Total (23+24=47) 2002: Jared Lawrence (1st, 149), Luke Becker (1st 157); Total (23+24=47) 1993: Lincoln McIlravy (1st 142), Terry Steiner (1st 150); Total (21.5+25=46.5) 2023: Carter Starocci (1st 174), Aaron Brooks (1st 184); Total (24+22.5=46.5) 1970: Dave Martin (1st 158), Jason Smith (1st 167); Total (21+25=46) 1985: Melvin Douglas (1st 177), Dan Chaid (1st 190); Total (22+23=46) 1987: Royce Alger (1st 167), Rico Chiapparelli (1st 177); Total (25+21=46) 1999: Doug Schwab (1st 141), TJ Williams (1st 149); Total (22+24=46) 2005: Jake Rosholt (1st 197), Steve Mocco (1st 285); Total (20+23=46) 2021: Roman Bravo-Young (1st 133), Nick Lee (1st 141); Total (22.5+23.5=46) 2022: Roman Bravo-Young (1st 133), Nick Lee (1st 141); Total (23+23=46) 2025: Ridge Lovett (1st 149),Antrell Taylor (1st 157); Total (22.5+23.5=46)* 1998: Mark Ironside (1st 134), Jeff McGinness (1st 142); Total (23.5+22=45.5) 2000: Juergens (1st 133), Schwab (3rd 141); Total (25+20.5=45.5)+ 2017: Vincenzo Joseph (1st 165), Mark Hall (1st 174); Total (23+22.5=45.5) 1994: Pat Smith (1st 158), Mark Branch (1st 167); Total (24+21=45) 2018: Jason Nolf (1st 157), Vincenzo Joseph (1st 165); Total (23+21=44) 2021: Lee (1st 125), DeSanto (3rd 133); Total (24.5+19.5=44)+ 2022: Carter Starocci (1st 174), Aaron Brooks (1st 184); Total (22+22=44) 2008: Perry (1st 165), Borschell (3rd 174); Total (25+18.5=43.5)+ 2012: McDonough (1st 125), Ramos (3rd 133); Total (26+17.5=43.5)+ 2012: Steve Bosak (1st 184), Cam Simaz (1st 197); Total (21+22.5=43.5) 2022: Aaron Brooks (1st 184), Max Dean (1st 197); Total (22+21.5=43.5) 1972: Greg Johnson (1st 118), Pat Milkovich (1st 126); Total (22+21=43) 1993: Markus Mollica (1st 158), Ray Miller (1st 167); Total (20+23=43) 1993: Kevin Randleman (1st 177), Rex Holman (1st 190); Total (20+23=43) 2000: Strittmatter (3rd 125), Juergens (1st 133); Total (18+25=43)+ 2001: Strittmatter (2nd 125), Juergens (1st 133); Total (20+22=42)+ 2010: Jake Varner (21st 197), David Zabriskie (1st 285); Total (22+20=42) 2021: Carter Starocci (1st 174), Aaron Brooks (1st 184); Total (20+21.5=41.5) 1976: Lee Kemp (1st 158), Pat Christenson (1st 167); Total (21+20=41) 2001: Juergens (1st 133), Schwab (2nd 141); Total (22+19=41)+ 1995: Steve Marianetti (1st 150), Ernest Benion (1st 158); Total (20+20=40) 2017: Gilman (3rd 125), Clark (1st 133); Total (19.5+20=39.5)+ 2010: McDonough (1st 125), Dennis (2nd 133); Total (23.5+16=39.5)+ 2010: Marion (2nd 141), Metcalf (1st 149); Total (16+23=39)+ 2016: Gilman (2nd 125), Clark (2nd 133); Total (21.5+16=37.5)++ 2007: Perry (1st 165), Luedke (3rd 174); Total (22+13.5=35.5)+ 2005: Johnston (2nd 157), Perry (2nd 165); Total (17+18=35)++ 2010: Dennis (2nd 133), Marion (2nd 141); Total (16+16=32)++ * 3 point TD ** Bye in the round of 32 + One non-champ in the duo ++ Two non-champs in the duo

True. I scored it from the round of 32 to better compare pre 2013 brackets with more recent ones.

I get people clown on Jimmy, but there were plenty of people offering up other Iowa duos such as Gilman-Clark, McDonough-Ramos, and Strittmatter-Juergens that are pretty much a wash with Lee-DeSanto. That reminds me I left off McD-Ramos. Adding them below. McDonough in 2012 was actually was the top scoring wrestler in the list. 2021:Lee (1st 125), DeSanto (3rd 133); Total (24.5+19.5=44 NCAA Team points) 2017: Gilman (3rd 125), Clark (1st 133); Total (19.5+20=39.5) 2016: Gilman (2nd 125), Clark (2nd 133); Total (21.5+16=37.5) 2012: McDonough (1st 125), Ramos (3rd 133); Total (26+17.5=43.5) 2010: McDonough (1st 125), Dennis (2nd 133); Total (23.5+16=39.5) 2010: Dennis (2nd 133), Marion (2nd 141); Total (16+16=32) 2010: Marion (2nd 141), Metcalf (1st 149); Total (16+23=39) 2008: Perry (1st 165), Borschell (3rd 174); Total (25+18.5=43.5) 2007: Perry (1st 165), Luedke (3rd 174); Total (22+13.5=35.5) 2005: Johnston (2nd 157), Perry (2nd 165); Total (17+18=35) 2001: Strittmatter (2nd 125), Juergens (1st 133); Total (20*+22=42) 2001: Juergens (1st 133), Schwab (2nd 141); Total (22+19=41) 2000: Strittmatter (3rd 125), Juergens (1st 133); Total (18+25=43) 2000: Juergens (1st 133), Schwab (3rd 141); Total (25+20.5=45.5)

Lee and DeSanto are definitely not the best ever duo, but pretty dang good. Iowa hasn't had NCAA champs in back to back weights since 1999. DeSanto and Lee might be Iowa's best since then. They finished 1st and 3rd in 2021. I've listed other possible Iowa 1-2s from the past 25 years below that had an average finish of at least 2nd at NCAAs. Lee being a 3x champ, 2x Hodge winner, >90% winning pct, and >80% bonus rate is probably just about the best better half of all the possible 1-2s. DeSanto is an above average 3rd placer. He had a >80% winning pct and >50% bonus rate. He also had multiple wins over multiple NCAA champs and finalists - Bravo-Young x2, Byrd x4, Gomez, Gross, Lizak x2, Lovett x2, Micic, Mueller, and Suriano. 2021: Lee (1st 125), DeSanto (3rd 133); Total (24.5+19.5=44 NCAA Team points) 2017: Gilman (3rd 125), Clark (1st 133); Total (19.5+20=39.5) 2016: Gilman (2nd 125), Clark (2nd 133); Total (21.5+16=37.5) 2010: McDonough (1st 125), Dennis (2nd 133); Total (23.5+16=39.5) 2010: Dennis (2nd 133), Marion (2nd 141); Total (16+16=32) 2010: Marion (2nd 141), Metcalf (1st 149); Total (16+23=39) 2008: Perry (1st 165), Borschell (3rd 174); Total (25+18.5=43.5) 2007: Perry (1st 165), Luedke (3rd 174); Total (22+13.5=35.5) 2005: Johnston (2nd 157), Perry (2nd 165); Total (17+18=35) 2001: Strittmatter (2nd 125), Juergens (1st 133); Total (20*+22=42) 2001: Juergens (1st 133), Schwab (2nd 141); Total (22+19=41) 2000: Strittmatter (3rd 125), Juergens (1st 133); Total (18+25=43) 2000: Juergens (1st 133), Schwab (3rd 141); Total (25+20.5=45.5) *I only counted advancement and bonus points starting in the round of 32 and all TFs were counted as 1.5. Strittmatter had a pig tail in 2001 which he won by fall. I did not count the points from that match, which would have added 3 to his total and the Strittmatter-Juergens total would have been 45, though at some point it became impossible for a wrestler seeded above 32 to have a pigtail, which everyone of these guys were.

Massoma Endene who transferred to Iowa this offseason had a similar high school career. I think his best finish was 6th in Texas and didn't start wrestling until maybe his sophomore year. He won 3 D3 titles and might be Iowas 197lb starter next year. Still a long way to match Dlagnev's accomplishments.

Was the Kasak redshirt an April Fool's ruse? He obviously didn't redshirt this past season and this thread was started 4/2/2024.

Diplomats. Here legally and not subject to our laws. If one happens to give birth here the offspring does not get citizenship.

Not a difficult question. All it would take is for one of the person's parents to be a US citizen at the time of the child's birth. The child would be a US citizen by birthright.

I don't know that these systems reduce the number of cars that get stolen. The data would be interesting to look at though I assume it would be provided by Flock who has an interest in selling these camera systems and representing them as useful. I suspect where they make a difference is in recovery more than prevention. Lower recovery might drive up insurance rates, but it may not be that significant. Often recovered vehicles don't have much residual value. The news reports I've seen on this credit them with involvment of 170-180 cars recovered since 2024. Now some of those would have been recovered anyway, but at a cost of $666,000 to operate the system that's like $3700/recovery. That might give the systems too much credit because the some would be recovered anyway, but the cameras also provided some evidence that helped solve other serious crimes. The problem is that the intended use for the cameras by the people in the legislative body signing off on paying the bill might not match with how it is used in practice. It would be less problematic if the system would only record the whereabouts of cars that are stolen or part of a felony and with a warrant signed by a judge. That isn't how they get used. Maybe the Denver police only use them for help locating cars tied to serious crimes - stolen cars, bank robberies, amber alerts, etc. If the police choose to share their data with other flock users than any agency with a Flock system can view it without a warrant and use it how they see fit. My brother is a police officer and he says that at work they often use these data on routine traffic stops. If he gets to feeling like maybe the driver is transporting something illegal he might ask some questions about where they are coming from/heading to things like that. Then when he goes back to run their driver's license he checks the license plate reader data. If, for example, someone said they were coming from Maine heading to Florida and the systems says a flock camera in Denver scanned their plate yesterday he will take that as a sign that could be transporting something illegal and lying to throw him off. He will then look for a reason to search the vehicle. It would be smart for city council to focus on the privacy concerns because at the end of the day that is the problem. I suspect whether the story focuses more on privacy vs immigration might depend more on the news outlet reporting the story. City council members likely mentioned both.

I meant to write "concern about privacy" in my original comment. I don't like speed/red light cameras either, but those are not as bad. One can prevent being caught up in that kind of surveillance by simply obeying the law. When they first appeared in my area someone set one on fire. The police were not able to use any footage from the camera to solve the crime because it only captured an image when someone was speeding. There was nothing to review even if undamaged from the fire. Flock cameras monitor any car that passes it and maintains a history of the comings and goings of that vehical whether or not it is speeding, flagged as stolen, or just a regular person minding thier own business following the law. This information is shared with other flock users and can be accessed without a warrant. In some parts of the country one cannot take a drive of any significant length via the most efficient route without passing one. Mass surveillence systems like flock can create and maintain a history of the position and travel direction of all vehicles used over a pretty wide area with surprising fidelity. This can then be used by governemnt users for purposes that go far beyond what is mentioned in the article (locating stolen vehicles). This is a win for the residents of Denver and all those that travel through the area.

You could argue they are doing it for the wrong reasons, but it's for the best. Flock camera systems have always been a huge privacy concern and the reason for their removal in Denver does boil down to a "concern about concern." It's just they finally violated privacy in a way the lawmakers finalyl cared about. Law enforement in many areas have access to the tracking that these systems provide without a warrant making it ripe for abuse. https://local12.com/news/nation-world/police-chief-gets-caught-using-license-plate-cameras-to-track-his-ex-girlfriend-228-times-arrests-charges-probation-flock-safety-follow-stalk-new-boyfriend-broke-up-out-of-town-misuse I wouldn't want these in my city regardless of whether or not it might recover my stolen car.