fishbane

Yeah I dunno. Another issue that was brought up was that this suspension suspends his USAW membership including any coaches membership he may have. This is problem if he was hired to coach at an RTC. Can't coach at any USAW events and that ostensibly includes practices of a USAW sanctions club/RTC. Perhaps at first he thought it wasn't an issue since he wouldn't be competing and now realizes it will be an issue.

Basch said they were in April, August, and September and that Gilman has passed tests since September. I assume those months were all 2024. That time line doesn't appear to match up with the claim that the first one occurred after he had moved to Stillwater and they went to his State College, PA address.

On the Willie /Basch podcast today Basch said that the first time the tester went to Gilman's State College address after Gilman had moved to Stillwater and that another violation the tester showed up in Stillwater and Gilman was out of town trying to recruit Marcus Blaze. Basch said he got this information from Gilman and that Gilman was appealing. They did not elaborate on the 3rd missed whereabouts. I think they have to give this information on a quarterly basis. A lot can change in a quarter year. The athlete has a responsibility to update it. Basch made mention of Gilman having some screenshots, so perhaps he had updated some thing and it didn't make it to the USADA rep that showed up.

He'd even has to go out of his way to find the ad. It's not like he passed a billboard with this ad on it. It's possible it was his first time, but I am sure he's been to places recently where it is way more accessible.

I think this is deceptive, but I am sure a lot of people think it is fine to do this. It is common practice with BJJ instructors. Many will list among their accomplishments "world champ" and omit that it was either at a lower belt level, some masters/youth age division, and/or some off-brand promotion. It is commonly accepted for some reason.

In my opinion using the lingo doesn't really say it wasn't his first time. QV is the only thing that stands out as prostitution specific lingo - it's the only term he used that I didn't know. I suspect if he was looking to visit a prostitute for the first time and saw QV in one or multiple ads, possibly with a price attached, he might look it up and use the lingo to book the appointment. To me the fact that he did this in Columbus, OH and how he acted are greater indicators that it wasn't his first time. I mean it's not a city particularly known for this industry and he doesn't live there. USA wrestling has a lot of events in Las Vegas and Nevada is the only state with legal prostitution. It would be more believable if he was caught doing this in Vegas or an international trip that it was his first time. I'd guess you'd really need to know where to look and seek it out in Columbus, OH.

Same. My friends I came across his music my freshman year in college and the next year he came to town for a show. Maybe two or three of us bought tickets ahead of time and another handful were just planning to pay at the door. When we arrived there was a line and none of us without tickets made it in. I didn't get in, but I saw Willis headbutt my friend through the window whilst waiting in line. I don't think I had seen his picture before this (we had a enjoyed his music in mp3 format there was no YouTube) and was surprised by the permanent bruise/callus on his forehead. Those of us that missed out figured we'd have another opportunity to see him, but he died the next year.

A true legend. RIP. The dark spot on his forehead was a chronic bruise from headbutting fans.

Do they still have a program? I didn't see it on their athletics page. Was he let go because they dropped the program?

Is the North American Indigenous Athletics Hall of Fame a reputable organization? If so they hurt their credibility by inducting this guy. I am sure the stuff in his bio is true on some level. For example "represented Team USA six times" Isn't like David Taylor representing the USA at 5 world championships and 1 Olympics. It's more like Wesley maybe won a match in a sparse veterans nationals bracket and was willing to go to veterans worlds and 5 other similarly unimpressive feats. If he represented the USA at 6 events that were remotely impressive he would write about those events. Instead he writes "represented Team USA six times" to imply something that is more impressive than reality.

Looks like a wrestling club for infants toddlers to me. I guess he is trying to get to them before M2.

I see what you are saying about the phrasing. It's possible that's what it means. Still I wouldn't recommend that anyone trying to stay eligible under safe sport engage in prostitution. It does seem like a prostitution conviction would be a problem under USAW Safe Sport Policy. Of the misdemeanor sexual offense explicitly listed prostitution is there with a comma before and after, which I think clearly means the prostitute and not the john or pimp. Though those would also be a problem under the catch all at the start of the section. I agree there is a lot of stuff that should disqualify someone from participating in the Safe Sport organization and/or USAW that doesn't fall under the mission of "preventing emotional, physical, and sexual misconduct and abuse" in the Olympic movement. Common fraud and theft come to mind. If the investigators crimes did not rise to a felony that may still be in violation of USAW Safe Sport policy as a misdemeanor that is a drug related offense.

Perhaps, but it still wasn't mother's day. The reality is that his family will be dealing with this for the rest of their lives. It's not good. In the future his kids and their friends will know he did this.

You are misinformed. Both prostitution and soliciting a prostitute are explicitly violations of the Safe Sport code. From section IX.C.4.f - Prohibited conduct, sexual misconduct, Sexual Exploitation. link Whilst stealing money from a drug bust is not explicitly against the Safe Sport code a conviction for it would likely fail a USAW background screening and trigger a review to determine the appropriate level of involvement for the person in USAW activities. So it would be a violation of the USAW Safe Sport Code. USAW Safe Sport policy

Why not say a week before is close enough too? A month? It's bad enough as it stands there is no reason to pretend it was on Mother's day.

I don't know what he is saying then. It would seem like he is off by two days.

Mother's Day is always on a Sunday. Snyder was arrested on Friday, May 9th. I think this was two days before Mother's Day. Are you saying two days after getting arrested for soliciting a prostitute he again solicited a prostitute on Mother's day? Or are you saying this was some previous Mother's day like Mother's Day 2024, 2023, or 2022. I think Snyder's son was born in the second half of 2021 so I don't think any Mother's Days before 2022 would have the same significance.

He pled guilty to assault 2nd degree in 2011. His sentence was 6 days in jail and 1.5 years of probation.

You are correct about the silver medal. At the time of his first run in with the law he was a nobody on the national scene. He was arrested in the summer of 2009 which I think is the only one of his the three high school assault incidents he was found guilty. Before that he had placed 3rd in MD as a freshman and was 6th at national preps in 2009. He had won MD states in 2010. His biggest pre-college accomplishments were winning NHSCA Senior nationals in March 2011 and Fargo junior national the summer of 2011. He was #80 in the recruiting rankings that came out before those events took place. I have no issue in discussing this here even if it is off topic. Alliseeisgold was saying there is a double standard in people wanting to give Snyder a chance at redemption and not Snyder. Presumably he is talking about people on this forum, USA wrestling, and the national wrestling media. By the time Pat Downey would have been a relevant topic for a forum like this, USA Wrestling leadership, or national wrestling media he already had multiple assault charges and was on his 2nd, 3rd, or 4th high school. Snyder had over a decade of problem free outstanding performance. No run ins with the law. Was never shown the door at a high school, college, or RTC. Simpson's first run in with the law was a double murder not soliciting a prostitute... Yes. Downey has a *I poop my pants, don't laugh at me*ty violent personality for such people being fake would result in better outcomes for both the individual and society. It is better for such a person to be fake than real. Being fake for this Downey is walking away from a street fight instead of breaking your hand and kicked out of Nebraska or shaking your opponents hand after a match instead of escalating things/throwing punches and being disqualified/suspended. Downey should try and be more fake and less real.

I am sure he was discussed extensively prior to wrestling a college match, I just don't think he was discussed before he started getting in trouble on the college forum. His wrestling really didn't warrant it. The forum is archived somewhere so it might be possible to check. The navy football players incident happened in 2010. He already had an assault charge in 2009 from a previous incident.

On the college forum before he won senior nationals?

This board didn't exist in 2009-2011 for people to write essays on Pat Downey. And he barely would have registered with the audience on its predecessor, themat.com. Downey graduated high school in 2011 and he didn't win Fargo until the summer of 2011. He won senior national the spring of 2011. He wasn't really a top recruit prior to that and was #80 in the class of 2011 recruiting rankings. No one on the biggest college wrestling forums at the time would have known who he was to write an essay in his defense. Tyrel Miller is #80 on the 2025 big board. I know nothing about him. Do you? Still I am sure Downey had his supporters defending him locally during that time period. He attended three different high schools and was recruited to the University of Nebraska, so he received multiple chances to start over fresh. Of course he would get booted out of Nebraska without wrestling a match for excessive partying and breaking his hand in a street fight... So if there is a difference in how a college wrestling forum treats Downey and Snyder it comes down to Downey having three strikes against him before he even wrestled a college match and Snyder being a model citizen for over a decade on the national scene before his indiscretion. To me those facts explain it far better than your feeling that one is "real" and the other is "fake" contributing to a double standard.

Isn't that how it should work? First time offenders should be treated less harshly than repeat offenders. I think it will impact him more than people think. Sure he might not get any jail time and might not miss much time on the mat, but it could blow up his personal life which tanks his wrestling career. Look at what happened to Tiger Woods. He had a pretty outstanding reputation and after his infidelity scandal he didn't win another major for a decade. How many sponsors were lining up to sign him after that? Snyder probably doesn't have a decade to win fans back. Rudis has already scrubbed all references to him from their website. With Snyder's career already on he decline how likely are they to re-sign him ever? Won't that advertising money be better spent on a younger athlete with more promise like Aaron Brooks? The safe sport suspension likely puts him out of Final X. Can he get it lifted in less than a month? Unlikely.

I don't know if double standard applies, but it is a different standard. I am also not convinced that the difference is due to being fake vs being true so much as having a very troubled past vs having a problem free past. Both may play a roll, but I think the later is the more significant issue. AJ Ferrari encountered this when looking for a new program after leaving OSU. One might assess his religious views to be closer to closer to Kyle Snyder than Pat Downey and that they are incongruent with his off the mat behavior making him "fake." He said in an interview he chose Bakersfield not because they offered the most $$ or were his only offer, but every other school said he'd be starting with two strikes and if he messed up once he was out. Citing bible versus did not help him much. The worst charges he faced were assault and robbery which occurred in 2009 and 2010 and he could have faced 35 years in prison if convicted of all counts. He won Fargo in 2011 and represented the US at Junior Worlds in 2012, so he was definitely a USAW member those years. I would be pretty surprised if he was a USAW member for the first time in 2011. It is likely that he was he was a USAW member for them or at least prior to them. Past behaviour at other institutions definitely matters. Most obviously with USAW it matters in the background screening they require of adult national team members and all coaches. Downey would have been subject to this in 2012 when he made the junior world team and in 2019 when he made the senior world team and if he was ever a coach. His criminal conviction should have come up.