scourge165

Well...I guess you're our savior then! You can solve the issue almost nobody else has been able to. You've learned how to make all parts of Wrestling fun! The Drilling, the running, the weight cutting, the grind, the surgeries that you'll invariably have as you move up the ladder...so you and Lyndon Baines get together, work this shit out and lets watch as Wrestling signs a 111 BILLION dollar TV deal for 10 years like the NFL just did. Shouldn't take much more than 10, maybe 20 years! Get to...I'll be the first one cheering you on.

You THINK I might be...and now you're kidding? Well...you're clearly not as bright as I thought you were! LOL...no, of course, they're geniuses. One of the most difficult things...and it seems SO simple, but one of the most difficult things I had doing in the short time I coached, was getting the best Wrestlers to open up and take shots and attack and Wrestle loose vs their best competition. And it didn't always work. We had one guy in the Quarters one year who was so vastly superior on his feet, but he just had a mental block. It wasn't until he got tilted and had ~1:50 of RT against him that this kid started attacking. He finished up with 2 TDs in the 3rd, a Stalling call and then probably 3-4 more shots that would have been TDs if he wasn't down. Same problem in HS, same problem I know I dealt with. They both managed to get their guys to always attack. That sounds simple and while some guys are Bryce Andronian and they're always attacking, most aren't. The whole Va Tech team doesn't. The WHOLE Iowa and PSU teams under those legends did. And the way Gable got his guys to just out-work everyone, the way Cael gets his guys to relax, they're leaders before anything. And then of course, Gable recruited tough kids who fit his style, Cael has a way of picking kids who fit his, but both of them had to have the success to be able to recruit with so much success.

Huh...I usually get to just skip over these now with the "ignore this users posts," but...this is not...not-true. Not sure it's unique to this Country. Most of the Countries OUTSIDE of the US that have a lot of success in Wrestling are Countries that people grow up very different and live a much tougher life. The Eastern Bloc, Iran, the Cubans...couple of outliers, but sure, kids come up much tougher in a lot of the countries where Wrestling is big. They don't have the option of sitting in their room drinking Monster Energy...whatever and live streaming their stupid video games. I respect everyone that's guts to step out onto the mat.

It's also difficult to his a Golf Ball 300 yards down the fairway. If you fail at that though, you're not getting your head shoved into the mat, slammed on your ass or out there, fighting off your back in front of everyone(and that's after you get past practice). How many of your friends did you think could make it through a Wrestling practice in HS? Aside from your Wrestling friends? I don't see how you can make teaching and then learning a double, single or all the basics that go into Wrestling "fun." I see how playing catch is fun or shagging fly balls, or taking batting practice. Wrestling is a hard, physical sport and...a lot of kids just don't like what it takes to get through the season, much less be great. We had tons of athletes coming out, but those first couple weeks in HS...where you need to build up your legs. Hardly the most intense practices, but we'd ALWAYS go from ~70 some and we'd be down to ~55 by the first duel and it went down from there. In Middle School, it seemed like almost everyone went out, but that's because it was popular in the area I was in. I never actually wrestled on the JHS team, but I'd go and see a lot of kids, and I guess they were having fun. But, the higher you go, the most physical the sport gets(and I'm not even talking about the best kids right now, I'm talking about the kids who aren't going to Fargo and doing all of that) -the most of a beating you take vs better Wrestlers...it just thinned out so quickly. And you can't exactly hide. In Football, you can just be soft and you don't play. In Wrestling, you're going to get exposed. And this is all without addressing the weight cutting. So when I say tough, I mean, mentally, physically tough, not the skill required. You're not pushing your body in those other sports to the limit like you are in Wrestling. Yeah, that's what was fun. Again, live Wrestling is also fun and I mentioned how my coaches would try to make some of the drilling fun(situational Wrestling, start in on a double and you Wrestle live, start in on a head inside single...etc..). But I think Wrestling is just unique in what is demands of you. Again though, while I don't think it's plausible that it could or ever was going to approach Basketball or Football level popularity, I don't agree with this premise that it's in a worse place or getting worse. It feels like Wrestling's in a good spot right now...again, in large part due to MMA helping make Wrestling a little bit more mainstream.

Yeah...that's what this is. Wrestling would be different if the ADs just pushed it. It's not that Basketball appeals to the masses because most kids play...or Baseball or Football, it's the "nitty gritty history of college athletics," that you get...that I just don't!

Ok...well, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Then why don't you try to articulate it more clearly for me. What point exactly am I missing? How do YOU propose we make a sport like Wrestling anywhere near the level of popularity of Basketball or Football and how does it make me a victim to simply not agree that our sport can reach that level of popularity? How does it make me a "tuff guy" to believe Wrestling...is in fact a niche sport? How does not wanting your "prodigy" lose to a guy like Jordan Burroughs make it a niche sport and I don't get what a "guy like Jordan Burroughs is." Maybe I missed the point you made. So, lets try again. Tell me what I got wrong or what point I missed? You can make a point or just tell me I'm not getting it.

This is what I was referring to. I don't agree with the premise. We're seeing a whole lot of College Wrestlers winning Medals at the World Championships, or at the Olympic level while still in HS. Guys like Burroughs, Snyder, Stevenson, Yianni, Fix. Dake, Howe, Taylor...all were ready to compete at the international level, Burroughs was in there way. I don't see how guys in the 80s and definitely not the 90s were "much more international ready wrestlers," than we're seeing today.

I used HATE going to a practice...at my Club, HS, Camps, wherever...and drilling for 45 minutes. I didn't mind conditioning, but(this is going back 20+ years now) but just 10 single legs, 10 high crotches, 10... The best coaches would have you do that, then we'd Wrestle situations. Start in on a double, whistle, wrestle live from there. And then the live Wrestling was just fun. Especially if you had good workout partners and you could open up, try new things. And you need to drill. You need to drill until it becomes second nature that when a guy steps one way, you hit this shot, to hit that double off a re-shot. It's muscle memory, but it's not fun. The Wrestling part is fun. Wrestling is tough, that's why you have trouble retaining kids. Basketball is easy. That's why they don't have as much trouble. That's my opinion.

I actually think Wrestling is doing pretty well and having a bit of a renaissance, but it's never going to be Basketball or Football or even Baseball. It's not "fun" like those sports are. In order for it to be fun, you've gotta have success or at least be getting better. That requires a LOT of work. I don't think it's a victim, I just don't see how you're going to get it to the level of mass appeal that Basketball and Football has. And I really don't get the "tuff guy superiority" statement. I wish everyone Wrestled. There are a lot of great athletes and Burroughs started Wrestling when he was in like 1st or 2nd grade. So his story isn't exactly like Lee Kemp's where he didn't start until HS and was barely .500 until his last two years. It's the greatest sport in the world IMO, but we've tried professional Wresting leagues we've tried to market it on different levels. It IS a niche sport and I don't think it's because the ADs just care that much more about BB and FB, I think they care more about FB and BB because it generates more revenue. As for the regular season...I like the idea that you need X number of regular season matches to qualify, X number to get seeded...provided you leave a little leeway for legitimate injuries. Like seeding, it shouldn't be absolute. Brayton Lee(hypothetically) shouldn't have been punished had he come back this year from that gruesome injury and been punished. But you could iron that out.

Right. It's not an indictment on the older Wrestlers. As I mentioned, you had so many guys who didn't start until HS or in HS. It's just...so obvious and the reason is simple. You have a kid who's getting private lessons from NCAA Champs or AAs vs Wrestlers who grew up when Club Wrestling was rare or who just started as a Freshmen and what do you expect? As for the idea that they called Stalling so much quicker then, look at Jim Heffernan in the '87 NCAAs vs the Iowa State kid or the St. John match you posted. It was and remains hit or miss. Wrestlers today are more...just savvy. How many times do you see the ref get to a 4 count and the top Wrestler pulls his foot out of bounds? The Mat awareness, the defense and counter Wrestling...I had this discussion with MSPart when I said I thought PSU would win the vast majority of the matchups between "all-time greats" because it was presented as if you took Ed Banach and matched him up against Brooks or Nickal, who'd win. He then asked if I thought those Wrestlers with the same time and training would adjust and...of course I do. But I don't see how you can argue just the old style of Wrestling would beat today without the benefits the Wrestlers have had today...that doesn't make sense to me, and again, it's anecdotal, but a couple of guys who won NCAA titles in the 80s who've mentioned how much better the technique is(it was specifically in regard to Banach FTR). This is a losing argument for EVERY generation IMO. No sport is "better" in terms of skill now than it was 20-30 years ago. Wrestling in particular, guys develop techniques to stop the best Wrestlers or the most effective techniques. I still don't think PSU has reached the level of dominate that Iowa did when you compare Gable and Cael at the same points. But go back and look at the 1987 NCAA Finals matches when Iowa's 9 year run was stopped by Iowa State. The caliber of Wrestling is just not the same. The effort, the toughness, the heart...all there. The Mat awareness, and the technique...not so much. Edit-The one I just watched today started with Jackson from MSU at 126 winning the title and had all the matches, but this works.

Who said they COULDN'T scramble? Most of those old timers will tell you themselves the Wrestling technique is better today by a WIDE margin(by the way, one of them sent me this exact video within 30 minutes). You can't compare the scrambling back then with the scrambling now. I'm also not sure how you come to the conclusion that Wrestlers transitioned quicker from Folkstyle to Freestyle. You've got guys winning Olympic Golds while in College now, you have World Medalists NOT winning NCAA Titles. You've got more success in Freestyle now. I suppose it's taken longer for some because they've been blocked by other gold medalist. Dake, Taylor, Howe by JB. Cox by Snyder.

This was why I didn't go with the usual group I go with. We were gonna stay at a friend of a friends house with 6 guys and...it just wasn't worth it to me. That and we were driving down, so it would have been another long drive to Tulsa.

Absolutely brilliant article. Little Onion feel to it. The sarcasm is hilarious. The consequences may not be...

Is this wishful thinking or are you serious? I had my family over for Thanksgiving and we told the kids, "no phones at the table." I look up while eating and my 79 year old Uncle, my Father(in his 60s) along with a cousin in his 50s, all glued to their phones. People are like zombies. Try and take away a 14 year old girls Instagram or Tik Tok? They'll treat you like a rat gets treated in prison. Better go into the room with magazines tapes across your core, lets and protect your neck! We'd be MUCH better off if Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Tik Tok were gone. Anyone hear about the guy who just got shot during a "prank?" He'd go up to guys and just try taking their groceries and other such stupid shit. They'd check out(self check out) and he'd just start grabbing their bags and walking away...and other similar shit with their cars or...whatever. Caught one to the gut, but he survived. Darwin lost that one. Kids eating Tidepods...and there are a lot of dumber ones, but I don't use Tik Tok. The TOS are terrifying.

I will agree with you on this. I don't like that he was prosecuted on this one. I think there are other things that were MUCH more important and clear cut(The phone call to Georgia, possible tax evasion if, as it seems he lied about his assets to secure loans). But if this is JUST about the payments to Stormy Daniels? At the same time, lets not pretend this is unprecedented. They did prosecute John Edwards for a similar "crime." He was a prominent Democrat...still, not the same as President.

That seems right. I've seen Gable in the corner and he's animated, but this one was a few notches above that. I really don't know how Cael can sit in the corner like that, so little emotion. They're two kinda extremes(Barry Davis is another). You invest that time and energy and that IS a life changing event for a kid you've got a lot of time and energy in...

Right...the 14 Eastern Bloc Countries that dominated were the primary ones...just pointing out there were other Countries beyond them who boycotted.

I'm just saying I'd never heard of the term "Mickey Mouse Championships." I'd heard other varying phrases...not Mickey Mouse Championships." I don't really think it's all that important where it comes from, the sentiment behind it is.

Right...as I said, I'd heard Mickey Mouse organizations or other references before...never heard of "Mickey Mouse Championships." And the "World started before 2020?" Yeah, no shit. Doesn't mean that's now when that particular phrase came along. When the NBA played what people viewed as a DIMINISHED Championship held at Disney World. I don't really care though. You take out the athletes Russia and Belarus from Wrestling, it's going to be a...diminished Championship. Not a good enough reason to leave them in, but objectively a inferior Olympic Competition...the definition of "MIckey Mouse Championship." Doesn't mean there won't be other really good Wrestlers. It does mean...it will be diminished.

I didn't even see this. This is somehow getting to the bottom of the "Challenger Deep," and then digging down further.

When? I'd never heard Mickey Mouse Championship before 2020. I'd heard "Mickey Mouse organization," or other references...this was all I could find. And...it's objectively true. The 1984 Olympics didn't have MOST of the top Wrestlers. 14 Eastern Bloc Countries, then Iran, Cuba and other Wrestling powerhouses dropped out. If you have an Olympic Championships without Russia...or to a lesser extent Belarus, it will VERY clearly be "of inferior quality." So, a Mickey Mouse Championship.

That was when the NCAA should have implemented reviews. It wasn't until...what, 5-7 years later they did.

Yeah, this and it's also kinda lazy to say "the fanbase" is complaining about X because you have a handful of people complaining. "The fanbase" save for a very small number of people don't complain about St. Louis. They seem pretty satisfied with the NCAAs behind held there. You're absolutely right...some complaints are warranted. Others aren't. There's a bit more nuance to it than seeing someone in a thread saying, "I don't like the cobblestone in St. Louis," and saying, "see, the fan base complains about everything. Does it? Or is it like 3 people out of tens of thousands?