scourge165

This is boring. We've already established the OBVIOUS answer is Cox...so it's other than Cox. And yeah, it seems like the answer is nobody as of now, but the goal is to project out. Could it be a guy like Trumble who looks like he could be the perfect size for 97KG and is surprisingly athletic? Feldman? Could he wrestle at 97? He's gonna be a HWT in College, but...seems feasible he could make the cut at the next level. TJ Stewart? Young, talented...5 years away. The young Fishback? All of these are WAAY too premature, but that's what makes it fun...IMO. If Bastida can't Wrestle for Cuba or chooses not to or whatever it may be, and he competes for team USA, he's the more obvious choice after Cox. Remember...Coon did beat Snyder when that seemed like a real long shot. I would mention Ferrari, but...I'm prettys ure that Ferrari is full of nitrous oxide!

Dake and Taylor's the best of them all, but I don't really view that as the same. I'm talking about jumping up a weight above your normal weight(something you never see any longer). Dake just went up a weight each year...and he looked more like a '65 pounder than Taylor by the end of that year. Askren v Kish is a good one. I guess with Herbert and Askren Wrestling in the finals and then wrestling the exhibition later on when Herbert was still Wrestling, I forgot it was Kish. How about Jim Jordan vs Kevin Dresser? Jordan was the defending champ...was gonna wrestle 142, got WAXED 10-0 and Dresser sent his ass back down to 134! They weren't both champs yet, but, they would be a few months later.

Ok...I was thinking that was Gable's Soph year(so first year of competition). It says it was Feb of 1966(obviously an error) on Mike Gant's OU HOF page and I wasn't familiar with it myself.

You're right...you don't get all day to get ready after weigh in's. The turn around is much quicker... That's how you had Joe Williams wrestling 150 with a 28 inch waist. He was cutting his balls off. As were other Wrestlers. WAAAY past Glory levels. Does anyone here have any personal knowledge of Glory's issues OTHER than '25 is a difficult cut for him to maintain and wrestle at every weigh in, including a Friday and Saturday duel? And I'm not sure I see the "fear." He's staying at a weight where he's going to face(if well goes well) one of the greatest and most dominant Wrestlers ever.

Was that before Gable won a title though? I mean, either way it's a big one, but it feels more like Zain vs Stieber(unless I'm mistaken and Gable had already won a title).

I had no clue this was a rule. I could have sworn Kaukauna kids went out to the Best or the East or...maybe the Ironman.

I'd love to see Lee vs RBY(I also think it'd be kinda stupid given his health and how he's working his way back into it, but I'd still enjoy it). What's the closest we've seen to that? Abas and Guerrero? Askren v Herbert(I think Askren bumped up after his win his Jr year). What was the best match where a Wrestler bumped up to try and make a point?

I'm pretty sure he can. I don't think he fled Cuba. It's been...~10 years now that Cuba's allowed athletes to sign in Baseball without fleeing and they can go back to participate in the World Baseball Classic. But I don't know for certain...it'll be interesting. He's pretty damn explosive and would be a solid 97.

Didn't ask ya to. I did. They were meant to disparage Beard...OBVIOUSLY. You think I'm skewing the narrative? Huh...that's an argument. And no, my position isn't that they shouldn't have taken Dean. It was a simple observation that has the PSU Faithful a bit sensitive. I literally said in the above posts I never suggested or inferred they should have turned him away(second time it was worded in the exact same manner and second time I responded...so no secret you didn't see them trashing Beard since...you're clearly not reading the posts real closely. And of COURSE I never said they should "appoint" Beard the starter after he lost the Wrestle off to Dean. I was asking if Beard would have gotten this year...AGAIN...this is shit I've already laid out. No...was Dean a defending National Champ prior to THIS YEAR? No. So I was saying I wonder if there was even the opportunity for Beard THIS year to win the spot. Christ...I also said I thought Haines could win it at '57 this year and that I understand why they'd go with Dean, but...even just speculating about a move gets you Nittany Lion fans all worked into a lather.

Yeah, again, I don't really care about THIS...as I said. The far larger point was that there was a dispute...directly related to Covid between Askren and Bono.

....Feldman? I mean, you said if it's not Cox and I can't think of anyone who's reasonably close to him at the moment and I just don't see the same competition at 97 as we saw at 74. There was a time when JB was at his best when he could have...reasonably lost to 3-4 Wrestlers. Howe was an absolute bull, DT is...obviously great. Dake was close for so many years until he finally did it. But Snyder doesn't have that. So I guess I'll have to go with the Hype. I'm just glad I don't have to go with a certain Okie State Wrestler who may well have been the next real contender because nobody wants to see Captain America lose to the bag guy! Being a LITTLE more serious and going with guys who've done a bit more at this point, I really think that Trumble from NC State has the size and the athleticism and he's already probably a perfect fit for 97KG. He's 6'4, he's got big legs, he's athletic. He's clearly not close yet, I'm just thinking potentially a few years into the future...maybe? I'd think Younger would Wrestle for Cuba, but he's also a good answer. I think the most likely is other than Cox, nobody is real close to touching a healthy Snyder in the near future and who knows how these kids will develop.

Really? I don't know. I thought the following statements were intended to do just that, but you read them and maybe you come to a different conclusion. I also didn't limit it to THIS year, I just made the statement in general, but...here are some of them. If you disagree, then we just see things differently.

Yeah, they WOULD be lying if they signed. And it's got nothing to do with Bono at this point.

And the right thing is to lie and say that there was something preventing him from competing(other than actual competition at the weight class)? Is that the "right thing?"

There is SOOO much to this story that you're missing, but...lets just say this. Askren doesn't like UW. He didn't like Davis because he didn't aggressively pursue him. He got into some of the pettiest feuds with Bono and others and...some of the nonsense going on is insane. He's done a great job with AWA(Really, John Mesinbrink has done a great job, he's one of the best HS Coaches I've ever seen)...but he openly trashes UW...and he did it before Bono when Barry Davis was there. He got along with Bono for a split second but...some nonsense about a scholarship(that was very well articulated to the student athlete that it'd be backloaded, meaning if he was still there at the end of 4 years, he'd get a very substantial scholarship). Then the believe that Gross was promised the job and they lied to McDonough and that's why Gross wrestled at UW. It falls apart when you realize Gross was on staff for the RTC and he filled in only after McD left and he would have been there either way making the same money. So it's really down to a visit that Askren didn't believe he was afforded appropriate respect and it really hasn't died down since.

Of course that's entirely possible. But I also think it's possible Beard finishes top 3-5 this year(better chance if he's at PSU of course) and possibly wins it or makes it to the finals and places ahead of Dean. Then I don't think it's a stretch to think he could win a title in the next year or two. They're also going to have a bit of a crunch in those weight classes with a lot of talent coming in. Barr, Ryder, Fricchione. On top of what I believe will be 2 more years of Starocci and 1 more of Brooks after this year(I know Starr suggested he wouldn't go for 5...but it was immediately after saying it'd give him a chance to put himself above everyone else...and it would). Meanwhile, Haines who I already think will be the best Wrestler in his class may well grow into '65, Facundo into '74 and Kasak into '57. I didn't say I thought it'd be the death knell for PSU...BUT I think the difference, particularly in the next couple years, '24-'25 D1, it could very well be the difference in a PSU Title and an OSU Title. And I also think it's...a little weak how SOME PSU fans are going out of their way to undermine Beard. Like he's not among the best in a wide open weight class that Dean won last year on a couple...generous calls.

This is what Askren will rant about if asked...endlessly...for hours.

LOL...even though he "never truly looked like a title contender?" As a FRESHMEN he didn't look like one? And he was a whole 5 years out of HS. So he pretty much followed the EXACT same route as Dean? A greyshirt, then RS, then Dean took an 8th, Beard took a 7th. Second, no, my argument was NEVER they should have "turned away a 2X AA." Read what I wrote. So...lets see if you can crack this riddle. Who was the returning National Champ TWO years ago at '97? Was it either of the two? Or was it Ferrari? So was I talking about not taking two years ago or was I talking about THIS year? And where did I say what PSU SHOULD have done? I simply stated I thought they'd get more out Beard than Dean. And Beard losing 8-7 with Dean getting a last second TD his 7th year out of HS(since now that's super important) is now more important than Beard ACTUALLY beating Dean? And doing so pretty solidly...taking him down repeatedly(what 4 TDs). And Beard just majored Trumble. Seems like he's doing just fine with his 3 years left. Oh...but the "talk of Brooks moving up." Awesome. So why are you so upset and whining over me saying I thought there was more ROI on Beard? When did all these imaginary standards come from? Beard's too far out of HS? Again, on the SAME pace as Dean. Lets see how they work out this year. We'll see if Dean is gifted a couple calls at a weight class above what he should be wrestling at...and then...well, it still won't matter and you'll still be hypersensitive about it.

Yeah, it was just a joke. "The B1G vs everyone." It's like the...forget it.

That's right...I remember hearing about the 1st. Not the 2nd though. Anyway, as I said, the "return on investment," we're talking about 4 years of varsity wrestling vs 2.

You mean kinda like how Dean lost to Beard himself(the stalling points, not the gassing). That said, he didn't gas at all in the Schultz match. He didn't Wrestle smart. tried to keep him down rather than just cutting him loose, didn't move enough on the bottom. Clearly did not gas. He scored the only 2 TDs in that match. He DID give up stalling, not at all because he "gassed," but because he couldn't get out on the bottom in the 2nd. Got a warning in the first for not bringing him back to the mat. Then a stall call in the 2nd. Tried riding in the 2nd, again, stall call. Beard cut him making it 4-2 Schultz(2 escapes and 2 stalling). He then took him down again and they hit him with another stall because he didn't return him to the mat and then he cut him. Beard was attacking and looked fine at the end of the match. He was just wrestled a stupid match. And this year, vs the ACTUAL person we're talking about, Dean, he beat him when Dean did the same thing and he beat him.

Didn't Dean beat Beard on a last second TD like...was it 8-7 in their wrestle off? 9-8? It was a 1 TD match. I don't recall exactly, but it was an extremely competitive match. One was a Freshmen with 4 years left. So that was a year earlier. And Dean The other had 2 years left. Keep Beard in that room, in the NLWC with the chance to Wrestle with Brooks, Snyder, Starroci, the best Wrestlers in the Country and I think you're going to get more from him in 4 years than Dean gives you in 2. Just an opinion, not meant as a slight against either Wrestler. Dean won an NCAA Title. And yes, I watched Dean Wrestle Laire and Beard. He wrestled two much bigger 97 pounders. Laird is a very good Wrestler. He was one helluva HWT who competed with some very good Wrestlers and he's a BIG '97(as is Beard). Dean...more of an '84, but when you go onto a team with Aaron Brooks, you don't wrestle '84. On top of that, Beard starts out with clean TDs(should have had another). They wrestle the 1st period, Dean is desperate to get the riding time...taking multiple stalling calls to do so. He also gets about 2 minutes off when Beard's coaches challenge a locked hands. Dean's smart. He gets a TD in the 2nd, rides him out. But again, Beard gets to his feet and takes him down with clean TDs. And again, Laird was bigger. So no, I don't think gassed because he was sick, I think he gassed because he's probably 3-4 inches shorter than the two, they've each as thick as him and Dean just ALWAYS Wrestles close matches. The Laird match came down to a SPLIT second where Dean's hand touches, but Dean had plenty of gas in the tank to go there after he got behind. And yes. He beat Bastida. It's not rare for elite Wrestlers to go back and forth. Bastida is also giving up a point going into every match. For the record, I didn't actually bring up Laird, you did. I simply said I thought they could get more out of Beard than Dean. But if you want to bring up Bastida, he's a Cuban. He's a couple years into Wrestling Folkstyle while Dean is particularly savvy. So what? So lets say Dean wins it each year. Beard takes...5th and a 3rd? That sound fair? Feels like he could easily win it, but...for the sake of argument. Beard has 2 more years left. I'll reiterate. I think the ROI was higher on Beard than Dean.

This was my opinion. My feeling even at the time. I wanted...35 or so matches. I KNEW I wasn't going to be anywhere close to where I needed to be early in the year. It'd take getting down, making weight, going through that season and getting those matches in, the whole grind...I always thought I needed that to get myself ready. It's been a while, the RTCs were not on the same level, so I may feel differently, but I wanted those 7 minute matches, ESPECIALLY against Wrestlers I was a little better than where I was pushing for bonus points or just in a real, life go that meant something, a chance to test myself, my lungs, legs...maybe some OT matches. Make sure I could Wrestle any period without getting tired. The long grind matches were helpful in practice, but that's teammates(again, the RTC being a larger part of the equation may change things). I think you'd see some drop off in the Wrestling in the NCAAs and more upsets as we've seen the past couple years with the limited tournaments due to Covid. But, maybe that was my own issue, I don't know.

Yeah, I wonder if they could have let Beard wrestle off for the spot or if it was kinda promised to Dean? Not that I think those two losses Dean suffered mean...much(particularly the first as that was SO close to not being 2...though it was the right call) but Beard was the younger guy, he was more suited for that weight, longer. Just seemed like the ROI was higher on Beard than Dean. Also feels like it'd be pretty hard to tell a defending NC he's not gonna start for you. AS for Haines, I said last year when I watched him Wrestle, he'd be the '57LB champ this year. It was obvious his learning curve is not just steep, it was...straight up. Now I guess I'll see if I was right or not. Maybe I'm being influenced too much by Hall...but I don't think so.

Wha....what in the hell did I just watch?