scourge165

Maybe. He's more athletic...but that's not a huge margin. And I think Parker is bigger and more physical than Starocci. Just a bigger frame, length. I think they both had a chance to beat Starocci and I still think Parker does. I really think this will be Starocci's more impressive tournament could be this year(though...last year, the bad knee, beating former NC back to back was also pretty impressive. Also why in all the arguments I made about Starocci and what a 5th would mean I qualified it with an IF he wins. And another topic, but I mentioned this yesterday, but how ridiculous is 184 gonna be next year? McEnally, Barr, Welsh, Ferrari, you have a bunch of guys coming back. Berge and others. Just a stacked weight. Oh, Sinclair seems like he'll be at 184(though...I hope it's 174).

Yeah, I meant in terms of the big matches. I guess I haven't been paying attention to the backside. I thought I saw someone say Davis was out and I know Lillendahl beat Rivera...and I suppose it's a good bet SVN, Kasak, Haines, Bartlett all take 3rd. But yeah, it's just not the type of performance I expected. That's probably due to Penn State's overall performance.

Dude...it's an expression. "Give credit to..." doesn't mean YOU specifically are not giving those teams credit, it's just...simply MY way of saying...give those teams credit. You ever watch a Super Bowl, World Series, whatever? The losing team, they say, "give credit to the Eagles, they battled all night, just came up short." Whatever. Man, people are sensitive(or at least on edge). Why would you think I'm "barking" at you at all?

I can't speak to his reasoning, but that male pattern baldness and those gold medals? I mean, who even cares about LSU Women's Gymnastics at this point, ammiright? (I mean, to be clear...I've never actually watched LSU Gymnastics, but I'm still...quite the fan...or I used to be until Okie St Wrestling become a contender again).

Yeah, but...if you're a PSU fan, this is probably the worst tournament under Cael...relative to expectations. They have such an uncanny knack for winning in the Semis...to watch Van Ness get just dominated in the first, Kasak to get beaten, Haines just had one chance after another as Hamiti shut it down(he really should have just scored and put it away). Give credit to Nebraska, Okie State, Iowa...I mean, I don't think anything has fundamentally changed given the talent PSU has that'll be there the next year or 3, especially if Ono is really going to Wrestle(is this confirmed by the way) but I think as much as PSU has been dominant, the top programs are just elevating. It's cool to see.

Yeah, but I'm not at this one...it's totally different being there vs not. I remember watching Johnny Thompson get knocked off early or...Caldwell lose in the finals. It's always wilder in the arena. Are you out there? Do you have an Apples to Apples comp? I will say, at HWT...I picked Kerk, but in retrospect, I'm not surprised. He's a guy who has looked like he's been afflicted with HEW for years. Despite that, he's taken a 2nd and won it last year. But now he doesn't have to Wrestle Gable? IDK, certainly not saying he threw it, but I doubt his heart is broken at the moment(or maybe he just shows very little emotion and I'm WAY off the mark).

Cool. And what am I supposed to reply to this with? 'Nuh-uh.' You just saying so doesn't make it so. It's CLEARLY not circling the drain. That's just nonsense.

Now...I always love watching the Semis and...the Quarters and...well, all the D1s, but this round just felt different. There were SO many matches that were either shocking to me or just INCREDIBLE matches. I was going to ask if this was the best Semi's ever, but I'll just go with the Keckiesen vs McEnally match. That was just an INCREDIBLE match. Up there with O'Toole and Devos. Hamiti over Haines. I thought someone may be needed to give Hamiti the Heimlich in the 3rd period(and he did his best to choke that away)...but he finally pulled one of those out. Last year he's in the finals if he holds on vs Mesenbrink. Should have beaten O'Toole last week. We'll see if he's over it and can get it done tomorrow night. Rommey...I thought HE had that match won. Fugitt vs Ayala...never thought he was going to win, but if he finishes that TD, he had a great game plan for Ayala(it ended up being a whooping). Barr beating Cardenas was great. Barr wrestled that about as well as possible. Was that the best Semis ever? Or is that a little silly recency bias?

This was no doubt trolling(and still not going to happen)...but damn, this is SO much closer than I thought. Good thing PSU gets some decent guys coming in like Duke, Blaze and then... some kid from Japan I hear is solid...

I'd hate it. I don't like a pushout rule, I don't think you need to change a thing. I think Folkstyle is more exciting. I mean, you get the best athletes in the world, so Freestyle is hardly dull, but...I'd just prefer the control style of wrestling vs the exposure style. One feels like it lends itself to the inferior Wrestler having a better chance at winning. Just my opinion. I know a lot of people are in favor. Just to go slightly off-topic, I think the Push-out would ruin so much great edge Wrestling....

May he rest in peace!

I don't think it's a huge stretch. 215 seems more likely. You have ALL DAY and if he's ~8-10 over the night before or going into the Semi's...it's pushing it, but I don't think it's that wild. I'm guessing he loses tonight and then doesn't MFFs out of the tourney though.

Ok....he redshirted. I stand corrected. It really doesn't materially impact ANYTHING...

Yup...24/7! And "ignore" comes in useful again.

Yeah...because you're a troll and they're both black? You JUST had a guy who is at least familiar with the program tell you they're pretty close, but...yet, you follow up with this. Jimmy knows better. Ultimately, I really don't see a kid who is an undefeated Freshmen at 184 heading into the B1G finals, a tough weight...who has scored like he has...I don't think he's having any confidence issues. He's all good. Stevenson saying the guy who is the overwhelming favorite to win the weight isn't going to change how he performs.

Yeah...I said that in a couple ways; So it's my all-time 3X Champs vs the best Wrestlers from ~2000 until now. Every Wrestler-Wrestled from 2000 on; And then...this. Everyone else was a 3X Champ and then...the 4X Champs in the modern era. Additionally, all the 3X Champs are in Bold and the 4X Champs are in italics with their name underlined...and Taylor's is neither.

I'm not entirely sure what you're saying here. He was a double WTT finalist in free the same year he won silver? I'm with you, this is silly, especially Hendrickson, but Kerk also, but what's that mean?

Sure he did. Literally and by the actual rules. They talked about the Oliver-Stieber situation(that exact position) in the coaches meeting and said you had to get your head out. They changed the rule the following year, but Oliver lost that. Watch the seconds after the match. John Smith isn't arguing...because he knew.

Sure, but I'm just looking at 184 and I started a thread(before I saw this) and I think that's going to be a stacked weight. McEnelly- Welsh-Freshmen runner up Ferrari-Capable of being a 4X Sinclair-Also capable Barr-Could win it at '97(don't think he will) and he's bumping up...though wouldn't count as a W for him). I could see 4-5 more titles coming out of the top 3 on this list. Top 3 could end up at '84 or '97 We could look back very differently if McEnelly is a 4X Finalist 2X Champ and Welsh is a 4X Finalist, 2X Champ...hypothetically. The only guy I could see who went a different weight would MAYBE be Pinto and Sinclair. Either different weight or took a RS waiting on it to clear out.

I don't mean for this to be a Jimmy type thread, I'm just looking at 184 and thinking...this weight could be ridiculous next year with young talent. OSU-Rocco Welsh-Runner Up last year Minnesota-McEnelly-1 loss #3 Seed Iowa-Ferrari-He's a stud PSU-Barr or Ryder, but I'll guess Barr #4 seed Missouri-Sinclair I think he should probably be a 174 based on his build...he would still run into Haines but he could compete IMO. SDSU-Bennett Berge-#5 seed Rider -Isaac Dean #7 Seed Maryland -Jaxon Smith-#8 Seed Nebraska -Silas Alred -#12 Seed And there are others like Fishback, Arnold may be at '84(maybe two Ferrari's at '97) I'm not sure there is a weight bringing back THIS type of talent. I mean, sure, we can let 2025 play out first, but with most of these weight classes parting like the red sea, 184 is still going to be a dog fight. Anyone else I'm forgetting about? Any studs coming into Cornell? Is Elijah Diakomihalis a 184 right out of the gate and a contender to AA at that? That top 5 looks STACKED though. McEnelly, Ferrari, Sinclair, Barr, Welsh

What is the BEST case for PSU? 125-Champ 133-3-5 141-Champ 149-Champ 157-Champ 165-Champ 174-Champ 184-Champ 197-2nd(He got the 4 seed and beat the #1 seed...don't think he can beat Buchanon...though I COULD see him beating Ferrari if he knocked off Cardenas again and it was him and Ferrari). HWT-Runner-Up Guys who haven't been AAs yet, 125(#1 seed) and 133(#8 seed) Then you have 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 2nd, 1st, 4X, #4 seed, 1x That's a nearly perfect tournament. Perfect would be Davis with...wht's REALLY a favorable draw beating Byrd in the Semis and getting Bailey in the finals who he has already beat. All 10 guys have a realistic shot at a NC and the least likely is probably the defending undefeated NC at HWT And what match is the final match of the Night? Keegan O'Toole vs Levi Haines...or Dean Hamiti or Starocci vs Keck? I'll go the guy going for 5 vs the guy who is the defending Champ. That way 174 is at least 2nd to last. Can't start with Starocci. Actual Predictions 125- 1st 133- 6-8(I'm a big Byrd fan...even though I know nothing about the kid, but I think that is the Semis and we all know PSU fares quite well in the Semis). 141-4th 149-1st 157-1st 165-1st 174-1st 184-1st 197-6th HWT-2nd The wild thing...PSU is losing 184 and HWT

Yeah...he had a match the year before vs O'Connor with a VERY similar ending(he doesn't get out, but he's up by a point and gives up the TD in the last ~15 seconds. I think he was yelling because Humphrey's clearly gets away and the ref had just given him a stalling to make it a 1 point match. So they review it and he likely thinks they'll give up the 1 point and...they don't and O'Connor is saved(though in fairness, I think he wins in OT).

Ok...not trying to argue for Starocci again, but C'mon...Plott? Plott is not beating Starocci! I think whoever he sees in the finals can...they won't, but can(and I said before the B1Gs I thought McEnelly could take him down). His two non-bonus matches have been VERY different. One was vs a Freshmen who went out there trying to WIN the match. The other was a Freshmen who went out there trying to not lose. I think he's only had one close match...unless we're counting the All-Star Duel. I give him about a 90% chance. I think he beats Keck 9 of 10 and McEnelly 98/100. Those are the only two I think can beat him and I don't think Keck winning would be a huge upset. I do think this will be his toughest title since his 1st one as Keck is such a stud, there are a lot of era I think he's a 3X Champ. 3/3/2/1 123-5 with 3 losses to Brooks, 1 to Truax(he avenged for 3rd) and one to Hidlay who he beat 3 or 4 times after. He also never took a RS. So just no Brooks, he's probably 1/3/1/1/? But...that's not what happened.

I think Haselrig could give Stevenson a run and then Tommy Rowlands...but HWT is different. It's changed the least. But yes, I look at the quality of Wrestling and the top Wrestlers just in the 20 years it's been since I Wrestled and it's improved so much. Add another 20 years, it's a bigger jump. This is also why I try and look at what guys did vs their peers and hwo dominant they were relative to the rest of the field. Some guys who are different are Lincoln Mcllravy. I think he could scrap with any 141/149 we've seen. Hell, I remember when taking a guy down and letting them up was called "poor sportsmanship." My All-Time 3X Champ Team vs my 2000 until Now All-Time Team, just for fun. I just went with the last two sets of weight classes. I know Uetake wrestled 130 but... David Taylor is the only guy with less than 3 Titles. Rules Modern Day scoring. So for example, I think Abas would take Specer down a few times...but I think Spencer would turn him. Comes down to who has gas left in the tank, so I'm going with 2020 Lee, I think he was healthiest that year. 118-Abas-125-Lee(Abas could also scramble) -I'll take a HEALTHY Lee in a 15-14 type match 0-3 126-Uetake/133-Stieber? I really don't know. Uetake Dec 3-3 134-Brands/141-Dake(worst weight, but fit the best)-Dake(also not his best weight) 3-6 142-Mcllravy/149-Zain -I'm going Mcllravy here, but the match goes about 59 minutes due to OT and...LOTS of Blood time. 6-6 150-Mark Churella/157-Jason Nolf I definitely underrate Nolf. Nolf wins Dec 6-9 158-Lee Kemp/165-David Taylor -Taylor. Gotta lean to Taylor given his high scoring page 6-12 167-Schultz(he won one at '67) or Hodge/174-Staroci -Going Starocci in a 5-4 Match 6-15 177- Hodge/184-Brooks Brooks just because I don't believe you turn him 6-18 190-Banach/197-Cael? I guess you can take your pick for weight Cael by major 6-22 UNL-Haselrig-HWT-Gable Stevenson(I agree, Neal, Haselrig could compete) Gable Dec 6-25 I know some people are going to dislike some of these, but I just don't know the 1950s/1960s guys well enough and 1930s and 1940s was so different. The dream matchups are totally pointless a I've already said I think the level of Wrestling is better so obviously I clearly have a recency bias. Tell me where Im wrong(I'm sure most of the results will be wrong.

You're effectively saying they're better than Gwiz then as well.