scourge165

It certainly seems to be the case. I'm pretty sure he had to TRY to make an effort to get up over 195 last year in HS so he could wrestle 220 and just so he didn't have to Wrestle Mirasola in the Finals(we all know they wrestled on other occasions). I'd guess 174 is not part of his future, but he's like...5'8? I think most guys with his build would be '74 pounders. Has to make the spot a lot more fun when you don't have to cut much and you can go out there and lift and feel good all season long.

He's got a legit shot at winning 4 Titles IMO. In fact, if he's at '74/'84, I'm already calling him at the '25-'26 winner. He's so good...but he's also never really cut and while I love the philosophy in general...'97 pounders are just a bit too long for him. If he went to most schools, without knowing exactly, but I'd guess he'd be a potential '74.

Imagine how hard that'd be though? Nelson Brands has taken a 5th...so it's not like there are many guys who are just so clearly better than him. Then it seems like just about every Father thinks their son is juust a bit better than he really is and it's pretty easy to justify.

That's fine. Didn't Mirasola have a win over Dean, a National Champ? And he was referred to as "a kid fresh out of HS." Lilledahl I believe has beaten Blaze multiple times. I don't particularly care where they're ranked coming in, they'll earn those rankings, I'm saying we know they're just not like normal Freshmen. Barr, Sinclair would fit the definition for me(if he wasn't going to RS and was going to go '84)...Lillendahl, Blaze, Jax, Basset...Duke. It's becoming common place for these Freshmen to be ready straight out of HS...which is still wild to me.

LOL...eh, I think that's probably mostly a coincidence. Cam Newton went from Super Bowl to out of the league like every player does. After he got the ever-loving crap beat out of him and several years later. He had that car accident and he also took more of a beating than any QB in the modern game(and then struggled to pick up other offenses). And he was still in the league 7 more years after the SB season. Even had another really good season a couple years later. I don't have any idea about Ryder Downey however. I still have to believe if you have a chef or someone preparing your meals, you've GOT to be able to get enough protein without meat...right?

Some people are opposed to it for moral reasons. Not me...something needs to die every day for me to live, but...I get it. Plus, it's so much easier if you have someone helping you or making these shakes. I'd also venture a guess that he's getting plenty of protein in his vegan diet. Namely, as long as I don't have to hear CONSTANTLY about how you're Vegan...who cares. Didn't Tom Brady live off a vegan diet? Not that he was ever renowned for his athleticism, but he was still a great QB until age 46....

That's fair. You're not sure he could beat both and...of course, he could lose to any of them. At that level, it's common(ish) for the #13 seed to beat the #4 seed on the backside...or the frontside for that matter. I guess I'd say either way, Cochran has sat behind NCs during his career. Brooks, Dean...that's his last 3 years. He's not just some guy. Mirasola. I'm not quite as sure he's on that level of being an AA as a True Freshmen(I do think he'll take a BIG jump this year in that room) but the original point, those two wins are telling to me. I may also hold guys like...Barraclough or Cochran in higher regard. I think if they go to another school and get a chance to start, they could have both been AA contenders or at least NQ and maybe Barraclough will be this year, but guys like Haines, Mesenbrink, Starr, Brooks, they win team titles, but those guys who stick it out and go up to 174 to wrestle Shane Griffith and they lose a 2-1 match at 174 or they go up from 197 and beat an AA at HWT, they're not just normal depth guys. They're important to your program. So we'll find out where Barr ranks in March in Philly, but I just don't like taking away from those guys like they're some 3-10 type backups.

Wasn't it like ~30 seconds into the match? How badly could he have been kicking his a$$ by at that point?

Well...David Taylor wouldn't Wrestle with Kerk in the NLWC!

Nope, he's still there. That's my bad. I have no idea why I said that. Maybe it's from rumors he may be leaving last summer, but he's still there.

Not at all... But when Marcus Blaze, Forrest or these types of kids walk onto a College Campus, we also won't pretend they're...just a couple kids fresh out of HS and no different than all the rest. It doesn't really matter ultimately, it won't until seeding time, but we now Barr pretty clearly appears to be a top 5-8 Wrestler at this point.

No, I don't think "everyone" cares enough about your opinion enough to get mad...I think the see you being willfully obtuse and describing Cochran and Mirasola merely as "career backups and a kid fresh out of HS." As though they're not just a TOUCH more than that. And then you go on to say ignorant *I poop my pants, don't laugh at me* like- So Mirasola's biggest accomplishment to you is a match he ALMOST won and got a single takedown in? -When talking about AARON BROOKS. Yes, the fact that he could stand in there and at least compete with the guy who just walked through 197 on his way to his 4th title would suggest he's more than just "some kid fresh out of HS. It's absolutely NOT about the bottom line ranking early in the season, it's about how you dismiss how he's Wrestled...but to disagree with you apparently makes one a scrub. I'm alright with that...

I think that's why you look at HOW the matches played out. Namely...were they competitive on their feet or did a seasoned MFS Wrestler get a lace and tech a guy.

Becker from Parkside. It won't be Ben Askren, he doesn't want the job, the athletic dept doesn't want him but Becker is an outstanding coach, was a very good Wrestler(3X undefeated D2 Champ...spent a year at Cent Mich and I guess he wasn't fully invested and wanted to Wrestle closer to home). Not an opinion, just what pretty much everyone has said. I believe someone just said on the Forum Askren wouldn't want the job as he'd have to give up this entire program HE has built, the infrastructure and he seems to love doing it(and he's doing a pretty damn good job at it). And my understanding(strictly from reading and listening to what has been said publicly) Askren thinks Becker is a very good coach. I know Becker took a 3rd at the WTT. Lost to Mark Hall when Hall was going into his Sr year 6-4. So he was competitive. Not a David Taylor, but, hell, gotta start somewhere.

I don't know as I'm not in any real position to provide insight from within the program, but...I DO know what has been made pretty public. -Askren was not pursued by UW the way you'd expect(especially given the benefit of hindsight). I don't think this was all that rare as Askren was a unique Wrestler. He didn't APPEAR to be the type who'd be an all-time great. -Then you move forward to Bono, Askren leaves the RTC. That probably hurt. The deal with what happened when they had a falling out over sharing facilities during Covid, that made the divide worsen. Add to all that they have poor facilities, Askren wrestling at Mizzou, so AWA sending guys to Wisconsin was always probably a long shot. Then you have Pinnacle, that's closer to Minnesota. There's a history of Wisconsin HWTs Wrestling there. Lowney, Konrad was from the same town as Lowney. Tim Hartung is another guy who was a Minnesota great(he had to practically beg Robinson for a chance). And the you're left with Crass Wrestling and they certainly produce some talent, but when you think about ALL the elite Wrestlers, if they're not even considering Wisconsin... I'd imagine it's tougher. Then he was getting some really good recruits. Miguel Estrada is a kid I thought looked like a stud. He was a UW commit and he left along with several others. Hamiti and Gomez, they just did what was best for them, but you lose two NC contenders...so then if you're Sinclair, Mesenbrink, Mirasola, Millard(he's going to be a stud)...why are you going to go and join that sinking ship? *** I do NOT know that Askren is actively telling kids not to go there, but why would they? Gross and Reader are gone. All the momentum they appeared to have a couple years ago is dead. I don't know that there's any real financial support, but the athletes they had who were competing at the RTC, Gross, Amos and Gomez, they all left. I don't know why or how Bono has changed, but... I don't know that it matters. You had a stretch where Wisconsin was probably in the top 5 in terms of producing College talent and only Nicola Rivera went there(with respect to the other UW kids, I'm talking about top recruits, Fargo Champs, etc...). I do know you can't just keep blaming it on Askren or how the Pinnacle kids are Minnesota kids anyway or you're just going to continue to suck. None of that answers "what happened to Bono," and I don't know. It may just be part his personality not meshing(though I've heard a lot of coaches say he's made the rounds and ingratiated himself well) plus the sub-par support for the program. It's too bad.

Nope! We're even shoehorning this *I poop my pants, don't laugh at me* into NON-PSU topics now! I do so look forward to hearing about which WRESTLING program suffers the most injuries and how that's the coach's fault...in a sport in which Wrestlers have always, but are ever increasingly and intentionally bending their knees in a way that would make a normal person's knee sound like a fat man sitting on bubble packaging! C'mon! I'm on the edge of my seat! I wanna hear when the next Wrestler is injured and how we can blame Cael or Brands for it!

That's the one! And then he loses a ton of weight and becomes insanely shredded the next year...

Well, you're always going to bet against a team getting an AA at every weight, but...they could lose a couple starters and have backups come in and get the job done. But, last year, the two weights they didn't AA at were weights they had the #1 seed in Davis and then...I don't recall what Nagao was, but he'd just taken a 5th as a Freshmen at a weight with Vito, RBY, Fix and he beat Mendez in the 5th place match. So it's certainly not a given. On another note, what's going on with Joe Sealey? Only at PSU could you have a guy like him coming in and almost nobody is talking about him. Ideally, he'd be taking a greyshirt, but with Duke, Henkel and Cunningham coming in, '57-'84 isn't exactly thinning out anytime soon.

Right. Even if it did contribute, if he turns around and says 'they asked me to cut too much, I had to turn to drugs to help get down,' it not only justifies it, it passes the blame. Probably not good for recovering addicts mentality and it just looks bad. That's IF Smith was the reason he cut to '57. He may have just done it as they had a 3X National Champ Wrestling at 165 so that wasn't an option. May have just been his own decision.

People really need to stop with the "the University extended his contract." They do this every year, it's a procedural and nothing more. They extend every coach other than the FB and MBB coaches as routine. They extended Barry and then fired him. It's just not a factor at this point. The program is in shambles, they should move on...I'm not arguing any of that, but the extension wasn't a sign of anything.

Yes, I know he's out with a knee injury. I just haven't seen any update on how bad it is. Was it an MCL sprain or was it an ACL or a meniscus? It's a wide range of outcomes. Even a Meniscus could impact him long enough that it'd really hurt an AA shot.

I've not paid real close attention the past week or so, but...what's going on with Davis? They have, IMO, title contenders at '25, '41, '49, '57, '65, '74, '84 and HWT-And no, I'm not saying I'm picking Kerk over Gable or even Beau over Mendez...SVN over Henson, just these guys should just about all be favored to get to the NCAA Finals. So that leaves you with '97. Barr looks pretty damn impressive. I ain't betting against that kid. Or Cochran frankly. I think he COULD make the podium. And then '33. If Davis is healthy...I'd think you'd have your 10 AAs. That's and 6 NCs is about all PSU has left to really accomplish that's not just chasing their own records.

Did they EACH get absolutely screwed in the CIF State Finals, or was it just one of them who got hosed twice?

Yeah...I don't think anyone would have any trouble if they were JUST trying to eat 6,000 calories a day. I remember Hilger was Wrestling at...~215 or so and went on a ~12,000 calorie a day diet...but it was JUST to gain weight. He added ~40 pounds, but I don't know how much of it was good weight. Also, Keuter is still going back to Football, right? I thought the plan was for him to commit this year to Wrestling and then...he'd be back on the FB team next year. So either way, he's gotta get up to ~240-250. I don't even recall what he plays(I thought he was an Edge/DE/LB) but IF his eventual goal is to make a career out of playing FB, he's gonna have to pack that weight on. I also remember a TV show, it's Always Sunny in Philadelphia. Really funny show, but one of the guys on the show gets really fat on year because he noticed that on most shows that are successful, everyone gets better looking as they get private chefs and stuff like that. So he wanted to go the other way. He said it was miserable. But again, he was doing things like leaving out a quarter or two of ice cream in the morning and then drinking it later in the day. Just getting fat. A vegan adding 6000 calories? The toughest part would be preparing all the meals. Then it'd be just like the OP said, walking around and not feeling like you've got a growth in your stomach.

You said you wouldn't be shocked if he lost to Kerk or Bastida. You basically guaranteed Stevenson would lose! I totally agree. Moreso with Kerk than Bastida, but if Kerk is going to Wrestle this season with the focus and intention to beat Stevenson...I absolutely think he's capable of doing it. I don't think anyone else is, but people are sleeping on how big, long, athletic Kerk is. To me, I'd be more confident if Kerk didn't look half checked out most of the time and he's won a NC doing that. I also wouldn't be "shocked" if Keck beats Starocci at the NCAAs, if Haines beats O'Toole(that one I actually do expect) or almost any other result. The only thing I'd BET on would be a healthy Mesenbrink wins it.