scourge165

I don't know man...he showed pictures of a Wrestler who's got muscles. If that's not proof a guy is dirty...I don't know what is. The only way I trust a guy in this sport is clean is if he has a John Daily like physique! THIS is all natural!

Yes. I think watching your coach getting ready to face the guy I believe to be the greatest College Wrestler of all time in Sadulaev will help his coach, in recruiting, and be better from the program. If he beats him...it depends on what Sad does next 4 years. Does he get back on top and win a couple more WC and an Olympics(I believe so) or did we see the start of the end with the injury default? I think it'd be a bigger win than any Taylor has had...and I am skeptical he'll get it.

I think this is a stupid topic...but unless there's part of Wrestling history I'm missing, ie, Gable being offered or courted by ISU, then...this is the answer. Pushes out Douglas and then leaves for the most talent-rich state in the Country. I remember when this happened I thought PSU becoming a powerhouse was a given. Just the Greatest College Wrestler ever along with the #1 Wrestling State(by a lot) for College talent. You knew he'd pick up recruits and the way ISU was trending, he'd develop them. I don't like the word betrayal, but it's by far the closest thing. I did think ISU tried to hire Gable at some point though and I don't blame him or think it's a betrayal for not going back. DT was blocked by 4-5 guys, namely Cunningham, a guy who'd be the most sought-after HC IF he left, so who'd he betray? But he was building something at ISU and IIRC, Taylor was headed to wrestle at ISU, right? So for this stupid question, this is the obvious answer.

I think the reason he can't generate enough offense is less about Sasso's ability to get to a leg or score, but more because of Mesenbrink and his relentless motor. He WILL run him down as you say. If he scores first or if he's down...6-0 after the first. There are a couple of Wrestlers I believe could beat him from '57 to '74..and one of them is a teammate now, one was a teammate(I believe) for a year in HS...or at least they went to the same HS.

I think Sad wins it going away if he's healthy. I don't think he was healthy vs Taz in that last WC and I think he'd have won the Olympics...but we'll see.

From what I'VE heard was that some of the Karelin stuff was...embellished to magnify the 2000 Olympic Matchup. Rulon's coach came up with the unbeaten in 14 years and unscored upon in 10(we know he was beaten and then it was overturned in one WC in like '98 or '97 and he was scored on). NOT that this takes away from what an absolute MONSTER of a man Karelin was. Just watching that reverse lift was amazing.

This is...duck duck goose'ing awesome! Nice... (I've only read the initial post, but please Jimmy, please resist the urge to douche this up by making it a John Smith vs Fantasy Match thread).

Yeah, I know the chronology. Gable came in and they were almost immediately dominant. Lee got pinned...if you think it's plain and simple, cool. I don't care enough about this to argue if water is wet.

Yeah...we can. But we can also concede that Lee wasn't healthy and...if he were, he probably wins it the year before and is out of College at this point OR if he's healthy, he's not gassing and doesn't end up in that position. Ramos is an outstanding Wrestler...but it's not the same as Owings. At least not in my opinion. But this is also...fairly common.

My bad. I should have looked closer to the finishes... I still agree with @alex1flypoint. He didn't "turn the program around," as they were elite before, they were elite after...they're Iowa. Gable turned them around. Cael turned PSU around. I don't know that one Wrestler can turn a program around, but I definitely don't think a Wrestler can turn a program that's already one of the couple blue blood programs around. Lee was great for Iowa. I DO think he would have been a 4X Champ if not for injury. I don't think it's as simple as he got pinned when he was winning, he was gassing that year because I don't know how you can be in the type of shape you really need to be in if you have knees like he did(and we've seen him recently, he's in MUCH better shape after being healthy). And I also reiterate, this is a stupid thread...but as long as people are taking it seriously...that's my opinion.

Yeah, I remember being a little kid at the State Tournament with a cousin. I had another Cousin Wrestling. This was back when you could go down to the floor, with no security. And anyway, my older cousin is warming up, he's got the guy who...I believe won the State Title the year before and he's on Deck or in the Hole. Hood up, old school walkman. Me and my Cousin chose that time to go up to him to ask...I don't recall the question, but it was one of those REALLY annoying kid questions. Not quite who'd win Superman or Batman, but it was a question without a real answer, but I remember the look he gave us, and he tried to be nice and said something like, "guys...I gotta get ready here, I'll talk later." Anyway...that's are more the types of Questions it feels like Jimmy is asking. The difference is, I think I stopped hounding people and asking those stupid questions when I was ~8 years old, but Jimmy, well, he found intermat forums. So he gets to stay 8 forever.

...he's literally just ranking their finishes and then saying, 'did he turn Iowa around or just add to an already great program.' Is that really such a ridiculous post he could only do so under the influence of some mind-altering drug?

LOL...I don't think it is, but...fair enough.

Yeah, if you do that though...every one of the greatest Wrestlers is in the last 10-15 years(maybe 20). You go back and watch the Peterson's for example. Great Wrestlers, but the style and the way they Wrestled, they'd be destroyed today. They scored so much with those diving doubles where they got ahold of the legs and then worked their way up. Just no shot that's working against a Brooks or DT or even Mark Hall. The balance between how dominant you were vs how far the sport has come is why I don't think there's a right answer here(though some wrong answers). I assumed we were talking about greatest American's as I thought it was pretty widely assumed that Saitiev and Medved were the two GOATs all time(though I think Sadulaev is personally).

With the understanding, this is all about LEVELS of greatness...and Adam was great, but not the greatest. I don't think this one is all that close. You can make a highlight of pretty much any Wrestler and they'll look great, but some of this is almost funny. The counters there look like he's at an old-timers tournament. And then there's this match that Bormett looks like he should have won by 4(this is one part of it)...I can't put Adam that high up. If it's a "what could have/should have" happened, why not Lee Kemp? https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=w3i&ei=UTF-8&p=adam+saitiev+wrestling&type=W3i_DS%2C202%2C0_0%2CSearch%2C20140936%2C20034%2C0%2C99%2C0#id=3&vid=c666949b3cfba49bb5b0404e1ea47123&action=click

Ok...I missed that. I was just going back and looking at Joseph vs Izzy in the finals, Lewis and him taking 7th. But Iowa fans complaining? No shot!

I didn't say he wasn't impressive, just that I don't know what year you point to and say, 'he was the #1 guy he just got a terrible draw.' I'm not even arguing it, I just don't recall.

125-Lillendahl 133-Crookham 141-Bartlett 149-Lovett 157-Kasak 165-MM 174-O'Toole 184-Starocci 197-Trumble HWT-Kerk I really don't think PSU gets 6...I just don't know who doesn't. Kasak may not Wrestle this year, Messenbrink may be at '57 to squeeze those guys into the lineup...but these are my initial picks. I also don't know that Trumble is going '97 and I think I'd take him at HWT as Kerk just looked disinterested(but also dominant). I'll guess I'll change probably 7 picks by the time March rolls around.

Well..yeah, there are a lot of guys who will. Jimmy only asks stupid questions, but Sinclair is going to have a massive impact, Lillendahl will, Blaze, Bassett, Forrest, Blaze. The question is who'll turn a program around...and nobody "turned" Iowa around. If I was taking this seriously, I'd say...whoever goes to Okie State and then IF they win 3 or 4 and a team Title.

I don't quite have this recollection of Marinelli. What years do you think he should have been a NC? Or could have if not for seeding?

I can't see Lee hanging it up THIS close to his lifetime goal. 4 more years, he's still in his prime, I think he was the best 57KG in this weight. It'll be in LA...can't see him quitting. Snyder...can't see him hanging it up at his age either. Don't see him winning(would be a great story). Dake...he may, but I think he'll be passed up within the US by that time. Zain, same. Brooks will be my favorite to win(or rather he is). Parris...he's going to have to make some jumps. I wonder is Taz ends up at HWT or stays at 97KG. I think he may be better suited at HWT, though that's not US-related(directly). Snyder probably wins Bronze if that match isn't stopped so many times for blood, but guys have clearly caught him. He can't just wear you down any longer. I just don't get why people are so...certain that we're not going to have guys jump levels as we have with the current group. Koy Hopke or Ben Keuter or...hell, that kid from Iowa may be ready to win an Olympic Gold in LA, Deshaun Ross. He is...incredible. That's a bit premature, but the point is, it's hard to guess who's going to take that NEXT big step. Why not Keegan O'Toole? We're(or some people) are acting like an era is over. I don't see it. The JB Era ended, the DT era ended...US Wrestling is still in VERY good shape. I could see Luke Lillendahl or Vito or Yianni at 65 next time...it's such a wide range of potential outcomes. When Howe looked like he was going to be the future both at 165 when he probably should have won as a Freshmen, who would have guessed a few years later, he's losing to Dake and Taylor...and they can't get past JB. Who'd have guessed that DT would have gone 189, dominated for 6 years, Dake would win a couple of WC at 79, then beat JB, then take a couple of bronzes after winning a couple of WCs. Nobody knows if it'll be Jax Forrest, Beau Bassett, PJ Duke, Greg Kerkvliet, Trumble, there is just SO much talent. Sinclair...I truly believe that kid could win an Olympic Title. Not ideal weight for him, but he goes 86 KG. Gabe Arnold...I'm gonna stop naming guys not, there's just too much talent to think the sky is falling(And I'm not saying YOU'RE saying that @CHROMEBIRDbut it feels like that's kinda the overarching feeling).

Also, one more thing. Does anyone find it strange that Trump appointed the Federal Prosecutor- the one who came in at the last minute after they had an air-tight case against Epstein, gave him the deal of the century and THEN in a TOTALLY unprecedented move, gave all co-conspirators, KNOWN AND UNKNOWN blanket immunity...THAT'S the guy Trump tried to make labor Secretary? For all the consternation about Epstein, nobody thinks that's weird. That, the fact that Trump flew 7 times on Epstein plan BEFORE HE BOUGHT IT? He BOUGHT the famous Epstein plane and THAT is the plane he's now flying around in...and nobody thinks ANYTHING of that?

Served 24 years. Put in for his retirement in Feb 2005 BEFORE they were to POSSIBLY be deployed in "mid to late" 2006. Spent his adult life as a Teacher, in the Armed forces. *Said something about the guns he "carried in combat," which is not accurate, misleading or call it an outright lie if you want rather than misspeaking. It still absolutely pales in comparison to the lies told by Trump and Vance. Vance HAD it right when he said Trump was unfit for office, he was noxious and he was America's Hitler.... But hey, you never know how they're going to Govern, right? Except we do. One lost an election and then tried to overthrow the peaceful transfer of power by attempting to strongarm the Georgia Sec of State, Gov and Court System, after REFUSING to concede(for the people who compare it to Hillary, she conceded the night of the election...or maybe it was past midnight so technically the next morning, but in that ~12 hour period. Trump still hasn't. And then there's...Project 2025.

I like presidents who weren't nearly assassinated. LOL...seriously, save the moral outrage for the guy who called those who did serve "losers and suckers," while asking, "what's in it for them." That tells you everything you need to know about Trump. He looks at the service and says, "what's it in for them." If it's nothing, he's out. He's only looking to serve if there's something in it for him... But hey, don't worry. If Trump wins, you won't have to worry about voting in '28. "You won't have to ever vote again."

Even if that's true...and I doubt it is, JB wasn't competing for a NC his Soph year, much less for the Olympic/World team. I can't project 5 years out. Maybe O'Toole takes the weight and holds it for ~10 years. Maybe it's Haines, maybe it's...PJ Duke? Maybe it's Carr. I don't know, I don't care, saying there's not talent coming up to replace what's there is just so insanely stupid.