scourge165

You realize being the largest economy in the world IS ALL the power you need, right? Just making up tariff rates that you're being charged based on trade deficits is...absurd. But I'm glad you know "it's called leverage." To be clear though, you think Trump is lying when he says he's not going to negotiate, these ARE the new tariffs and they're not changing? You don't believe that? Also, is there a reason you can't put this all in one post? It's not like these are especially poignant arguments. They're literally just ripping off the MAGA talking points from Twitter.

Stop spending? That's not policy that's a vague and meaningless talking point. Social Security(which means...you probably also stop taxing), Medicare and the Military? Here's the reality though...and it's not complicated. The larger your tax base is, the easier it is to get out of debt. When your GDP GROWS...even without raising taxes, you've got MORE money coming in to service the debt. When your GDP CONTRACTS, the debt will grow. Margin taxes rates above 1M dollars increasing will help. They were over 90% in the 50s under Eisenhower when we were paying off debt accumulated from WWII and the Great Depression. We could slash defense spending? We have an outline of how to get out of this debt whilst still prospering. That's not going to happen again(the extremely high tax rates). We also have an outline of how to make things exponentially worse(that IS happening).

And...yet again, another reference to Bernie from 2008 talking about targeted tariffs on CHINA. Do you know what he and McCain actually endorsed? I get this is making it's way around conservative talking points, using a man who Trump and Conservatives said would bankrupt this economy with his economic policies(I remember constant references to Venezuela because he talked about Medicare For All and raising taxes on the wealthy). Are we all going to get together and vote for Bernie in 2028(assuming Trump doesn't...use one of those legal mechanisms that he believes he has to run again)? Should I keep spamming the Reagan take on tariffs?

It's kinda funny how people forget how Trump became an afterthought in the 90s. After he bankrupted casinos and he was toxic to touch.

Yeah, I posted about this several times in the last couple days Jimmy. I think what people would have to bitch about would be...the trade war that we've started. I'm perfectly fine with raising taxes. Going BACK to where taxes were under Obama for the money you make OVER 1 million dollars? Great. We need to do something about the deficit and then hopefully find a surplus. Decimating global trade...that's not a good starting point.

Chronology WAS your first divergence(at least the first you articulated to me)...asking how could Smoot-Hawley have caused it when it wasn't signed until after the crash...but fine. Ok...but as it pertains to the actual bill, what you're telling me is that despite a bill to introduce a specific tariff on one industry, instead they implemented a bill that introduced tariffs on...I believe it was ~90 different industries and tens of thousands of good when all was said and done and that decimated the economy, and at the VERY least SIGNIFICANTLY contributed to the Great Depression, right? Lets agree that Smoot-Hawley was merely something a catalyst that set off a recession that was inevitable and then other things led to it last ~12 years(fair?). I'd ask why there is SUCH an immediate correlation to the unemployment of the 1930s started ALMOST immediately after Hoover actually signed it, but...again, just agree Smoot-Hawley=VERY-VERY bad. So my question would be, if Smoot-Hawley, which initially was meant to protect our agricultural industry before every other industry began asking for their own little carve out, if THAT backfired by eventually serving as a blanket tariff, why would we possible go back to that same policy on purpose nearly 100 years later? And to put a finer point on my belief about Smoot-Hawley, I think the Economy was showing some cracks, the masive wealth inequality is...unhealthy for every free market, and the Federal Government needed to step in and help bolster some industries as it has since done on countless occasions. We had built up during the industrial revolution and our we were growing far more produce than we needed(so we actually NEEDED global trade). We MAY have seen a recession that could have been akin to the Housing Crisis. But we lost about 65% of our Global trade as a result... and rather than an economic slowdown, we did the worst thing we possibly could have at that time. We started an escalating trade war that led to a depression-IN PART(fair?) that we eventually had to spend our way out of with WWII.

You're teaching ME now, right? That's what you wanted the opportunity to do? What types of tariffs did Hoover ask for? Further more, what have I said about targeted tariffs for an industry vs blanket tariffs? I believe I've made my point ABUNDANTLY clear on this citing examples just of Reagan with Motorcycles, Semiconductors, the 1960s, the "Chicken War," I brought up. That was Europe protecting one of IT'S key industries. Now answer those and then...maybe it's possible you'll see how Smoot-Hawley led to the Great Depression. But you have to do some of this and have some foundation on your own. You started this by quite proudly pointing out that the tariffs didn't go into effect until after the market crashed. Well...have Trump's tariffs gone into effect yet? What's happened to the markets?

There are people who have different opinions or are interested in justifying what Trump is doing(not sure how)...and then there's 'lil Jimmy. He's just taking his replies straight off twitter and almost none of them actually make sense. The WORST thing you can possibly do if you want to cut the debt...is to see your GDP go from growing at nearly 4%(which is what Biden left him with) to watching it contract...which is what will invariably happen if Trump doesn't do an about face and pull back on these tariffs. What is beyond doubt now is that this is not the Republican Party. They've abandoned all principles they had. It's just...an incoherent following of Trump no matter how much damage it does to this Country. -Family Values -Free Market -Conservationist(that one has been hit or miss for years) The GOP died when conservatives were too afraid to push back against Trump OR they only started to do so on their way out...as Mitch McConnel is doing now.

But hey, there's not been a recession of depression 3 days within him announcing these so...apparently it's going great.

This could be a toss-up. Why is "trumpescorts" trademarked?

Jimmy...bud. I'm leaving you unread here. So I don't know what's taking you two posts here, or 5 in the other thread to respond to whatever you're talking about now, but...I doubt it's going to be all that enlightening that I'll regret it.

That's...just lazy lil Jimmy. I get it. You thought you had a super clever comeback and it didn't really work out. Topic-How the Democrats handling of the Economy vs the Republicans That's what everyone is posting about. But you just blurted out Vietnam and Cambodia, never making any actual point...but it wasn't even about that! LOL...sure bud.

Ok, so your response to show me one metric that supports your point about Republicans handling the Economy better than the Democrats is "Vietnam and Cambodia," and then when I call you on that, you make a joke because...I foolishly said on here I had a parent headed to hospice? The difference 'JImmy' is I'm not upset because I'm losing an argument here like you are, I'm upset because what Trump is doing is just objectively harmful to to the Economy. You're upset because you're incapable of actually articulating an independent thought...but I'm sure you thought that was really clever.

Yeah...cool. That's a great reason for why Russia was left off the list of tariffs. "They're negotiating." And any reason for why an Island of Penguins were put on it? It's clear this entire topic is really over your head. You're not able to even attempt to make a coherent argument.

Yeah, 8 Trillion of that was Trump's last 4 years in office. But hey, lets just do the one thing proven to contract our GDP the most! That'll work! If you want to cut the debt meaningfully here it is. THREE opions 1-Military spending 2-Medicare 3-Social Security Pick one. This ticky tac nonsense where Dog says they found 500M and then count it 3 times and it turns out it's a contract that has already been paid out and it was over 10 years, that's not gonna do it. Even if he CAN cut a Trillion dollars, a number that's laughable, but lets say they find a way to hit his goal. How much do you think THIS will add o the debt? By the way, who do you think will EVER make these Iphones or shoes?

Ok...so you have really nothing. Some guy tweeted the Democrats at bad at handling the economy. You, being unable to handle the economy...just say..."Paul Krugman?" Cool. So you have absolutely nothing you can contribute. Not one independent thought or even dependent thought based on someone else's opinion that you can expand on, just...look 'Cook says Dems bad at economy!' Great. Who is crashing it right now?

I haven't followed how the economies of Vietnam or Cambodia have done under Democrat and Republican leadership James....so I wouldn't know how to respond to this. I know how the AMERICAN Economy has done under Democrat and Republican Leadership... and the reason you don't see anyone saying, "hey, look at how many more jobs the Republicans created vs the Democrats," or "look how the Democrats have added more to the debt," is because...they can't, it's not true and it's easy to show how it's not true.

I don't know what you're talking about. Steel Mills? Is that a normal small business that people are looking to start? And then some anecdote about someone calling the police on a kid?

Yeah, you should be. The S&P was up 70% during Obama's time in office vs 28% during Trump's time in office(I'm leaving out this week but it probably should be included since he just wiped out one of the strongest years of growth in 3 days), despite coming in during the housing crisis left him. So...yeah, I would be saying "thanks Obama." You must have a self managed 401K...which is fine, but that's user error, not on Obama issue. Google it, look it up. See who added the most to the debt, who has added the most jobs...any metric. But telling me 'MY 401K did bad during this period when we were in one of the longest bull runs in recent history...I don't know what the point of that is.

No, not really. I assure you if I saw our President plunging us needlessly into a recession that would harm the entire nation, it's make me a little irritable under ANY circumstances. The rest of your whining, you say the tariffs are higher and I should be "open to learning." And you? You just keep using the equivalent of Wikipedia? I don't actually think I said that, but ANY consideration to YOU being wrong? Were the THOUSANDS of economists then OR now wrong? I've laid it out for you as SIMPLY as possible. Smoot-Hawley Passes at a time when the US Economy is about as strong as it's EVER been. Unemployment is virtually non-existent. If you want to work, you can work. Inflation, there is no inflation. .6 Passing it, JUST as what happens this week causes the Market to Crash. Within 7 months of signing it into Law, unemployment goes from ~1% to 12% on it's way to 15%.

Just to clarify, are they trying to argue that...the Democrats won the election because of illegal immigrants voting in Wisconsin? I'm sorry, I'm late here and don't have the time or energy to go back and look into all this.

This is my issue thus far. So many of these that are added to the running total are contracts that they're cancelling that they've already paid for or WILDLY misleading in order to justify their jobs. I've even seen projections that DOGE will end up costing money with cancelling contracts and then having to hand them back out or a slew of other things. I never cared about Elon Musk beyond what he did as the CEO of TESLA just as I don't care what Jensen Huang does beyond the CEO of NVDA. But he has become...so clearly full of it, I don't trust him. And the way he, after forcing the X algorithm to make him the most viewed man, he takes a nonsensical conspiracy, says, "hmm, that's interesting," just to amplify it and then he doesn't have to take any responsibility for. That's exactly how propaganda is spread. The Russians did this with Zelenskyy's two "Yachts." It was one of hundreds of posts that started on a small, insignificant little forum and then they started spreading it. I do like cutting off funding to UNRWA. You had Israeli Hostages there. The Palestinians are NOT happy or content to watch their little piece of the world grow and blossom like Israel is. They will not stop until they kill all the Jews. Evidence...Hamas leaders saying they wish all the Jews returned to the Holy Land...as "it'd be easier to kill them all at once." I don't think funding Israel and the Ukraine is the same thing...one is on it's heels and we're effectively giving the Ukraine old American equipment and then spending that money in quite literally EVERY congressional district and spending to buy new American weapons. But I don't know that Israel needs funding either. Beyond helping with intelligence and occasionally taking out Houthi Rebals- Though again, very skeptical the group we took out that Trump then put up on Twitter was a terrorist group as it was configured exactly like a Religious gathering, but that's a larger discussion. That Region will never be safe while the people support the extremists and the extremists will keep showing up while the place they call home is being decimated. What's more, a strategy to turn their children into weapons and "push them toward Martyrdom," has become a core Tennent of their belief system. If Iran could fall or be taken back by the people(they called it the white revolution in the 1970s as they were the most Pro-American Middle Eastern Country with much of our culture, our music, fashion, women walking around with some ankle showing...maybe even some knee. I don't know how else you solve this problem when this is the cycle;

Ok...this is gonna be it for me tonight...unless I can't sleep on these chairs, but I find this particularly funny when Kirk is defending the "liberation day" tariffs, yet his argument is all for targeted tariffs, but then also claims that corporations "Owe it to you," speaking to a citizen...to provide them jobs;

No, I did...I was just being facetious. Other comments about how it wasn't good enough...etc... Also, I've spent the last two days sitting in a Hospital room waiting for a parent to get transferred to Hospice watching what COULD be the worst economic meltdown since...The Housing Crisis or since the Great Depression(I don't see Trump stepping in and bailing people out as it'll make him look bad) so...some of my jokes may not quite be landing.

These are the economists that the TRUMP administration clamed these tariffs were a GOOD idea... https://finance.yahoo.com/news/the-white-house-cited-these-economists-to-justify-its-tariffs-they-arent-thrilled-193615537.html?.tsrc=fin-notif Tell me when I've used enough sources? It would also appear you missed the part about the league of Nations met in an attempt to lower tariffs. Also...how else can I explain this to you... How about this. If I say EVERY person is going to pay 50% taxes on their income and THEN I say if you work in JUST these fields you'll pay 60% taxes, but you actually only collect 13% taxes on the first group and then you collect 24% on the 2nd group...which is higher? It really shouldn't be a difficult concept, but...you may need to dig deeper than...."Investopedia." Kinda like when you repeat the Trump administration is just matching the tariffs and it turns out they're doing anything but that. LOL...this is the Trump administration. "Thought and precision?"