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How do you know no one was willing to help him? Its almost like you made that up so you could get on a soapbox.

it would be much easier to write this kid off if i did not know him personally and really like him just as an actually nice and jovial kid who just was dealt a really tough hand early on in life... obviously, there comes a point when your past can not define your future... everyone eventually figures it out... some just take awhile longer than others...

I've turned on the Brands' coaching ability, but I'd bet the farm they tried very hard to help him, possibily still are.

If I needed a lift out of town and my only options were JW or AJ I'd jump in the car with JW. Ok ... if the reason I needed to get out of town was an oncoming zombie apocalypse I'd go with AJ. Btw: the help he needs is AA rehab.

When he left Stilly I thought LR was the perfect place to get help and more attention. When announced Iowa I was worried again.

Take that political nonsense to the NWT!

I fell asleep reading this sentence!

when he showed up in iowa last season, pre-season my guy in the room was like, "JW is my boy!!!" 6 months later he was not very well liked by anyone... i can not fault anyone for their opinions on him from afar... it just suks that a genuinely nice kid with that much talent can't get straight... it happens...

So muhomud didn’t really direct his cult to kill jews, but was only against the state of Israel, which wasn’t a state at the time? You’re showing your ignorance.

SOT heavily pushed the olympic styles and actual greco technique was introduced... otto was 100% all in and wanted to quit folk immediately as a 10 year old... backing up backing up backing up... running to the edge for safety... it was incredibly frustrating to him... i agreed, but, he was just too small in this country to specialize becaus ther simply wasn't enough greco to do it year round... i dove into the sport because it was simply the truest expression left at what wrestling started as... we had Lindland in our room showing technique... Provisor was a friend of the club and was in all the time... i just connected with the greco guys way more than anyone else... none of them fit into the little box this society just can not stand if you stray out of... they are all a little off and that is the way i like people i associate with... none of this talk about wrestling to go to college... bleh i went to college... both of my parents had degrees... i was not impressed with what the system had/has become... i always preached to the meatheads do not wrestle because you think you will get a scholarship... with what i spend on you guys traveling all over the country i could easily not spend and any college you wanted to go to would be easily paid for... wrestle because you love it... nothing more... this sport is too demanding to do it because you do not love it... all you nerds always love to lump me into some typical "little league" mentality and it just could not be further from the truth... i came from a sport where we buried people... in 2010 we buried 4 kids under the age of 16 in this country and we all had some connection to them... losing a wrestling macth meant nothing to me... but effort and passion is everything... you do your part and i will literally do everything in my power to make sure i never have say you can't go to this tourney or that trip overseas is just not in the budget... whatever... lots of things happened... none of them worth bringing up on a public forum... fast forward to both boys having made 12 world teams... both having international senior gold medals... and both still fully committed to LA in 2028... personally, i already won...

i road raced motorcycles for a long time... it was the only thing i ever found in my life that i was truly passionate about... the only thing that made everything else bearable... i just assumed that my kids would race when they were of age... that means 5 in my world... i spent 5 years trying to make max and had to jump through a ridiculous amount of hoops to do the most natural thing on the planet... i ended up selling 6 motorcycles and adding another 14k in cash just to do what should be the cheapest thing about kids and that is making them... my own personal upbringing taught me that you need to keep kids, particularly young boys, engaged in some activity and without support they could turn to other things that are not healthy... max loved me pushing him around on the PW in the backyard right up until i tried to get him to do it on his own and he had absolutely no interest after that... this like 3-4 years old... so we started looking into the traditional stick and ball sports because that is all i knew... they were awful mostly for the reason the nerds here try and attribute to me (which i just giggle about endlessly)... max brought home a flyer when he was 6 for Little Chiefs Wrestling club... my only real exposure to wrestling was through years of watching fighting and i learned a little bit about wrestling... max had a broken arm so he did not start actually getting on the mat till a month or so after everyone else was in the room... to show you how green i was, his first tournament was tulsa nationals just because i did not know any better... i asked the coaches should he wrestle and they were like yeah why not... it was ugly... the difference between a 6 year old that knew nothing and a 6 year old that had been wrestling for 2 years is stark and i just did not any better... otto went into the room at the same time but most practices ended up with him sitting in Coach Matt's lap while the rest were running... whatever... i absolutely fell in love with wrestling... like it all just made sense to me... at the end of the season max had wrestled a few tourneys and i think Otto one and i was scared to death i thought neither would be interested in signing up again... i asked max after the last practice if he thought he would want to do it again next season and the look he gave me like i was the biggest idiot in the world pleased to me no end... fast forward 2 years and max had still not won a match while otto had ran house house on the novice division to the point that parents were mad at me that i was still letting him wrestle in it... my thoughts were let him have a year where he is the one... he is 6... otto had also started racing by then and was truly fast... he got it and he loved it... he was such a natural that owners of teams that were running in the AMA at the time were talking with me about him... we were still doing the other sports in the off season until someone told me about freestyle... you boys want to do that? of course dummy... so we did... we would go to 3 different clubs a week to get a weeks worth of practice and then when the first tourney came around max won finally won a wrestling match after 2-1/2 years against a kid who had throttled him repeatedly every time they wrestled in folk because the kid could not just back up... the exposure rules allowed max to be more creative with scoring... he did what the kids coined the fork lift for 4 and that was it for me... otto excelled in free for the same reasons... he would get so frustrated wrestling folk because you could not stop him from being over aggressive and kids would just back up and back up and wait for a bad shot... they could not do that in free... there were just a few of us that showed to every tourney every weekend and more relationships were formed... the next season i heard about Team Big ran by Derek fix... Daton was starting to make a name for himself nationally and walking into that room was a breath of fresh air... listening to Derek talk about what wrestling really was would make me want to put on a singlet... i had never been around the amount of talent before that was in that room 4 nights week and they took wrestling seriously... the boys thrived and loved it... i loved it... they started to show the first glimpses of being able to legitimately do something in the sport... we started traveling... max placed at kids nationals which was huge for him... otto was a blood round kid... we are talking 9 and 7 about now... otto was still racing on top of wrestling and making everyone else in his age look positively pedestrian... one tourney Carter Young's mother begged us to sign up for greco... i knew nothing about it other then the obvious... the boys knew nothing about it other than the obvious... the only other kid that had signed up for greco was a poor kid who had never wrestled before and just happened to be otto's weight... the end result was otto very gingerly teched his kid... it was very sweet how he treated him... even as a little kid otto knew what was going on just treated this poor kid extremely nicely on the mat... Max went from losing to Carter 3Xs a weekend to losing to him 6Xs a weekend... but, it was revelation for me... the rule set... the way you had to wrestle... you were forced to stand there and figure it out, i immediately fell in love with it... Otto did as well... Max was still not completely sold but he loved wrestling and competing... somewhere during this timeframe me and the boys had gone to a high school dual and i was horrified at the level of wrestling... both the boys were already better than almost all of these HS kids technically and it made me start viewing the sport differently... at around the same time otto had started racing big tracks and murdering everyone... at the time the only kid ever to be DQ'd in Junior Motard for an "unsafe pass" after setting the track record by over 3 seconds on a clapped out KLX110... it was starting to get to a point where decisions were going to need to be made as to what i could financially afford and at what level of racing... then i fell asleep going to texas world at about 1AM with otto asleep in the back... lost a trailer and 3 race bikes... took out a semi and a dually hauling a 24' trailer... the poor girl driving the dually only saw that she hit a motorcycle and she thought she had killed someone... it got stuck under her differential and she drug it throwing sparks for couple of hundred yards while another tank exploded after a semi hit a different bike and took out its front wheel... and i had already got the vehicle stopped and realized what had happened and was already running down the middle of the highway looking for the trailer and the bikes when apocalypse now literally happened on the highway... it was quite the spectacle... a month later a got a job offer in CO and my boss was living in the same town that SOT was based out of... that club was wild and totally focused on the olympic styles which we were getting increasingly into... the olympics had already started to be talked about... this was all the same time that they were seriously considering removing wrestling from the olympics and FILA was disbanded... i asked the boy do you want to go all in on wrestling and they both agreed they wanted to... sold my house in literally 48hours and we moved... that was the moment... that is a long drawn out story about our family's wrestling roots... TLDR i get it...

... or they like to eat.

Has anyone ever met a self-proclaimed "greco guy" with a good personality?

Not saying he is the best to never be on the top of the podium, but to me Michael Kemerer was NCAA champion caliber.

What Mohamed Atta Was Trying to Tell Us After 25 years, it is time for the West to face the true cause of 9/11 BY AYAAN HIRSI ALI SEPTEMBER 08, 2026 In April 1996, more than five years before he steered American Airlines Flight 11 into the North Tower, Mohamed Atta sat in a small Hamburg apartment and wrote his last will and testament. He was 27, an architecture student at the Technical University, the son of a Cairo lawyer, fluent in German, and living comfortably in one of the most affluent societies on earth. Nothing in his circumstances compelled him to dwell on death. Yet he gave detailed instructions for the handling of his corpse. “I don’t want any women to go to my grave at all during my funeral or on any occasion thereafter,” he wrote. He did not want a pregnant woman, or “a person who is not clean,” to come and say goodbye. The man who washed his body should wear gloves so as not to touch his genitals. He was to be wrapped in three white pieces of unadorned cloth, laid on his right side facing Mecca, and buried “next to good Muslims.” His money was to be divided “according to the Muslim religion as almighty God has asked us to do.” There is no political program and no mention of foreign policy or economic grievances in the document. There is only a young Muslim man, in a German apartment, arranging to sacrifice his life to Allah in the confidence that Allah will reward his martyrdom in the life to come. The will was witnessed by fellow believers at the al-Quds mosque, where Atta prayed in Arabic, grew his beard, and where, four years later, he would meet the men he would die with. The document is among the most neglected pieces of evidence from Sept. 11 because it contradicts the explanations of the attack that most Western commentators preferred. Atta was not poor. He was not radicalized by drone strikes that had not yet happened, nor by American support for Israel. He was not in any formal or organizational sense an “Islamist.” Rather, he had an uncompromising and militant commitment to Islam that he was ready to die for. Yet for 25 years Western elites repeatedly insisted that men like Atta must have been driven by something other than the culture and the faith that provided him with a lens through which his actions seemed both sensible and necessary. After 9/11, intellectuals and policymakers asked “what went wrong?” as though the source of Atta’s animus toward the West was shrouded in some deep mystery. In the Western experience, men had not killed other men over religious questions en masse since the end of the great religious wars of the 17th century. Culture, a term that was once understood to encompass a great many facets of human identity, experience, and belonging—religion included—had also been ruled out. Saying that cultural differences exist and should be respected was a foundation of the multicultural order; the idea that some cultures might lead people to murder each other, for reasons that do not appear in the Western rationalist list of sane causes, struck many Western liberals as too close to racism to bother arguing the point. Since then, each time the West collided with Islam, much of the Western intellectual class reached for explanations that made sense within its own secular humanist categories: grievance, humiliation, underdevelopment, alienation, foreign policy frustration, or the failure of Western states to properly integrate men like Atta, who were, or must be, inherently no different than immigrants of similar age, class, and educational attainments from Vietnam or Poland, or anyplace else. Since all conflicts are material in origin, it was assumed that they could be settled though material means. And given the obvious superiority of Western values, as measured through the superior material attainments of the West, conflicts over land, jobs, dignity, sovereignty, or redistribution should be negotiated with the generosity appropriate to those who occupy positions of immense privilege and power, thanks to the inequities of European colonialism. If Muslim populations suffered from a democracy deficit, elections would reveal and moderate those demands. In every case, theology and culture were translated into psychology, economics, development policy, or diplomacy. American leaders then added a second layer of denial. President George W. Bush stood at the Islamic Center of Washington to insist that “the face of terror is not the true faith of Islam.” Following Bush’s lead, after later atrocities in Paris, Brussels, Manchester, and elsewhere, Western leaders repeatedly said that the killers had “nothing to do with Islam.” At the same time, the notion of “Abrahamic faiths” was revived or normalized, as though Judaism, Christianity, and Islam were merely variations within one spiritual family, separated by temperament more than by theology or civilizational ambition. The rest: https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/mohamed-atta-25-years-911

AIGA Global has an event this weekend that features some actual wrestling... couple of MMA guys going to leg grab... Kayaalp will be wrestling Alexuc in greco... Kayaalp is a true legend of the sport and just a barrell of a man... it appears to be on smoothcomp with youtube links... and... Sadulaeuv and Kurbanov will not wrestle off at the Kadyrov... sounds like it will be moved in house in russia early October...

Technically it is exponentially “harder” to score in Greco because of the closeness of the contact… Greco you are dealing with millimeters of space and leg grabbing you are talking 3 feet of space…

In-N-Out is the most overrated food franchise I have ever eaten. We don't have any in Washington State, but people act like if you visit California and didn't go to In-N-Out that you have committed some sort of offense. It's a fine fast food hamburger. There are probably about 10 local spots in the city I live in that I would gladly choose over In-N-Out.

You thought that why? You know he has guns. I wasn't aware we have rehab experts in the forum.

U saying people helped him at lr and not at Iowa or the reporting is a much bigger thing at Iowa ?

I almost said that. I’ll bet several / many tried to help him.

I actually agree with you. That said, I wouldn't be surprised had I heard that 141lb Manville was beating 133lb Larkin and 165lb Ruiz was beating 149/157lb Larkin in the room. You make the Larkin brothers the larger wrestler and I absolutely think they own it.

why is chocolate better than vanilla?

i can't help you... my best advice would be to not comment on greco threads seeing as though you do not like it... you have an entire section of this silly forum to argue about stupid shit ad naseum...

Zach Sanders - 4 time AA and always fun to watch

Okay so getting back to @SweetButteryLou’s original question… I do truly appreciate the story, but I don’t think you included much that was answering the original question, at least as far as what makes Greco in particular the best. You did talk about the MMA piece, and you did list examples of why “the international styles” are better than folk, but I don’t feel like you gave much evidence of why Greco is better than free. I clipped above what are IMO the main arguments I saw: 1) a way to train without killing each other. uh, I feel like this could be interpreted as trying to take the easy route in training (which could kinda coincide with the theory about guys going Greco later because they think it’s an easier path to a world team - not saying your kids did this). 2) Greco guys are “off”/different/crazy You also talk a lot here about how YOU connected with it, which isn’t really helping the “living vicariously” accusations IMO…

We discussed this yesterday in another post. https://www.hawkcentral.com/story/sports/college/iowa/wrestling/2026/09/14/iowa-wrestling-jordan-williams-owi-charge/91757384007/?taid=6aa839ad7956c3000133229e&utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter This is the second time in a couple years. He has to be finished.

Trying to be tasteful in reference to the above post.....but not in shape, quits, poor teammate, constantly in stupid self-inflicted trouble....hard to like.

The military is using the lowest amount of national product in at least half a century. Still more than the NATO freeloaders but quite low by the standards of recent history. We are at 3.1% of GDP and 13.1% of federal budget. Historically those numbers average nearly double those percentages. I know it is unseemly to bring facts to what is an emotional narrative driven rant but I just couldn't help it.

Nobody kills more Muslims than Muslims. When they’re not killing jews or infidels, they’re killing other muslims, or women.

DC: cadet world greco bronze was his first international medal. He was never afraid of upper body positions in freestyle either!

Sir, if there is no food involved, I do not run for much of anything nowadays

This might be the grossest moment of last year...should be timestamped.

To be fair, if they wrestle in LA they most likely lived and will continue to live a pretty amazing life. Pretty amazing accomplishments.

He's still in according to FLO on yesterday's show.

I'm guessing you mean because he lost matches at Elite Eight... No he isn't out. FLO said as much.

You could become a non-practising white.

Fun exercise! I think I’m settling around here: 125 - Provo 133 - Davino 141 - Bassett 149 - Vega 157 - Trelly 165 - Blaze 174 - Mesenbrink 184 - MacEnelly 197 - Little HWT - Kueter Rather fun to ruminate over which guy to take from certain teams at certain weights.

yeah I was saying I'd call it a bad tournament. If you are going from a coaches mentality and you have to bottom line it I think you have to, but generally i'm using fan mentality on here, and I could imagine a scenario where a high seed doesn't place you could still claim that person wrestled well.

Tell the whole story why don't you. From the Google AI: President Donald Trump announced a pardon for former Colorado election clerk Tina Peters in December 2025, but it did not free her because presidents cannot pardon state crimes. [1, 2] The Pardon Announcement President Trump posted on social media that he granted a full pardon to Tina Peters. Peters is the former clerk of Mesa County, Colorado. A state jury convicted her in 2024 of crimes related to a voting system data breach. She received a nine-year prison sentence. [1, 2, 3] Why the Pardon Had No Legal Power The U.S. President only has the power to pardon federal crimes. Peters was convicted of breaking Colorado state laws. State officials and legal experts stated that Trump's announcement had no legal effect on her state prison sentence. [1, 2, 3, 4] Her Eventual Release President Trump and his administration pressured Colorado leaders to release Peters. Colorado Governor Jared Polis commuted her sentence on May 15, 2026. State officials released her from prison on parole on June 1, 2026. [1, 2, 3] You will notice Trump pardoned her in Dec 2025. It had no bearing on her case. Her sentence was commuted by the governor May15 2-2026, 5 months after Trumps action. She was released Jun 1 2026. So the governor did not release her due to Trump like you were insinuating. mspart

It Trumps fault. Biggest cop out of all time. Blame the boogey man. mspart

Yes this is true, and most of us on here said those that destroyed property should be sentenced. Most were. But remember just months prior to that cities across the country were in riot with arsen, assault, property damage totaling billions, and there were not many people brought up on charges. mspart

Is my statement true or not? If true, then why the snarky comment? If not true, then I could see the snarky comment. mspart

nice job trying to create a false narrative. stupid people will believe it.

can you get more specific about being controversial? Some on this list are controversial because they are bad people others because they aren't in shape.

for consideration - Mike Mann Iowa State. 4x AA. 2x finalist. Lost by 3-3, 2-2 criteria as a junior in finals and 4-3 in finals as a senior. His senior loss was to Ed Banach who was winning his 3rd title. Mann beat Banach 3 times that year prior to the NCAA tournament.

Arujau 2x: once in the quarterfinals and again for third place in 2019 NCAA tournament. Interestingly, Arujau and Rivera are scheduled to face each other in RAF 14 on 10/23...

John Peterson

Sam Hazewinkel, Daton Fix, and Adam Coon immediately come to mind.