Dropping to a Knee. Is it stalling?

[BruceyB]

On 11/19/2025 at 6:54 AM, jchapman said:

Anthony Robles wrestled from all fours in neutral.  He was not called for stalling because he stayed centered on the mat and engaged with the opponent.  Dropping to a knee needs context before we decide if it is stalling.

I realize I may catch significant pushback on this, but if anyone with two legs wrestled like Robles (against high quality opponents) they are getting dinged for stalling several times a match. He was FREQUENTLY put in front headlocks and would scoot all over the mat with impunity. Robles was refereed much differently in neutral than a typical wrestler is. Whether that is right or wrong given the circumstance, I'm not here to judge. But whenever I rewatch competitive Robles matches, I feel a little uneasy about how much leeway he was given in neutral. 

[H82Lose]

I would do a 5 second count, and the ding em. Some styles are on a knee, but they should be able to stay there IMO

[ionel]

4 minutes ago, H82Lose said:

I would do a 5 second count, and the ding em. Some styles are on a knee, but they should be able to stay there IMO

Same thing collar tie? 

[H82Lose]

On 11/22/2025 at 8:33 AM, ionel said:

Same thing collar tie? 

Damn, I don't know. I see your point, there are ways to "hold on" with a tie.  But how far do we push this to keep the refs out of it. One of the coolest tournaments my kids wrestled was tournament of Champions in Ohio. Tough as tournament. The cool thing, it was mixed between folk and freestyle. The refs created action. If you had a take down, and there was not a turn or anything happening on top, they put you back on your feet. I realize that does not help in this situation, but I always think about how that was a cool concept. 

[scourge165]

On 11/19/2025 at 1:38 PM, pmilk said:

Stalling is not unique to dropping to a knee...you can stall in any position. I had a great high school coach who taught us that when an opponent drops to his knees, it should be an automatic TD. We were also taught that there are just as many many TD techniques from the knees as there were in neutral...he still has legs...just shorter ones. And he's not as mobile on his knees. Whether YOU are neutral, on top, or your opponent is on his knees, one of your objectives is to make it look like HE's stalling. Besides, Robles has already set the precedent for wrestling on his knee. Smart, well coached wrestlers will drop to their opponents level and employ the myriad of techniques available for scoring. And there are a lot of them. 

You'll have to coach everyone up on how to beat Ferrari on all those automatic Takedowns he gives up then!

[Scouts Honor]

that's just it. wrestling evolves. adapts.

people don't practice it.

until they do.

b/c most guys don't wrestle that way.

there is more than one way to skin the cat.

 

[Offthemat]

2 hours ago, Scouts Honor said:

there is more than one way to skin the cat.

I like the trapper method, myself. 

[alex1fly]

In the OSU Nebraska dual Dee Lockett literally crawled around on his knees. He must be very evolved

[Spencerlee]

27 minutes ago, alex1fly said:

In the OSU Nebraska dual Dee Lockett literally crawled around on his knees. He must be very evolved

OSU fans don’t get to complain about Angelo.

[Scouts Honor]

1 hour ago, alex1fly said:

In the OSU Nebraska dual Dee Lockett literally crawled around on his knees. He must be very evolved

well, he won the match didn't he?

but you are missing my point. i meant, guy evolve ways to wrestle against that.

its probably not as hard as the people crying about stalling.

but it's not easy yet, b/c a clean way hasn't been worked out yet.

[ionel]

30 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

well, he won the match didn't he?

but you are missing my point. i meant, guy evolve ways to wrestle against that.

its probably not as hard as the peop le crying about stalling.

but it's not easy yet, b/c a clean way hasn't been worked out yet.

Flying Squirrel   

[Schuteandscore]

9 hours ago, scourge165 said:

You'll have to coach everyone up on how to beat Ferrari on all those automatic Takedowns he gives up then!

Do you realize who you’re quoting?

[Scouts Honor]

i doubt he does.

and i bet he really doesn't care.

[Caveira]

6 hours ago, alex1fly said:

In the OSU Nebraska dual Dee Lockett literally crawled around on his knees. He must be very evolved

I was gonna mention this.  A lot of knees for that dude.   Not a peep though about him ha.   There is literally no way to understand why the psu faithful rail on person a and not person b.   

Edited December 30, 2025 by Caveira

[scourge165]

5 hours ago, Schuteandscore said:

Do you realize who you’re quoting?

Sure. Now I do. 

And Scouts Honor is right. I don't care. 

There's no Guaranteed way to score on someone Wrestling from their knee. I can have respect for someone's accomplishments while recognizing how much the sport has changed in 50+ years. 

 

[scourge165]

1 hour ago, Caveira said:

I was gonna mention this.  A lot of knees for that dude.   Not a peep though about him ha.   There is literally no way to understand why the psu faithful rail on person a and not person b.   

A Penn State Fan literally used him as an example earlier in this thread! 

What's more... you're constantly complaining about stalling... even for a guy with an 80%+ bonus rate. 

So... you must not be a fan of Ferrari's style of Wrestling, right?

[alex1fly]

20 hours ago, Spencerlee said:

OSU fans don’t get to complain about Angelo.

I’m an OSU fan and I complain about both. And I’ll complain about you! Watch out

18 hours ago, Scouts Honor said:

well, he won the match didn't he?

but you are missing my point. i meant, guy evolve ways to wrestle against that.

its probably not as hard as the people crying about stalling.

but it's not easy yet, b/c a clean way hasn't been worked out yet.

My post was tongue in cheek bud. It’s not that serious. I’ve asked several times in these convos how knee stalling can be beat because I’m genuinely curious from a technique standpoint. It’s a little silly to want refs to “fix it”

[Caveira]

12 hours ago, scourge165 said:

A Penn State Fan literally used him as an example earlier in this thread! 

What's more... you're constantly complaining about stalling... even for a guy with an 80%+ bonus rate. 

So... you must not be a fan of Ferrari's style of Wrestling, right?

Sometimes Ferrari’s style is pretty boring.  
 

not as boring as stallrocci sitting on an ankle for a week boring.   But boring. 

Edited December 30, 2025 by Caveira

[Scouts Honor]

2 hours ago, alex1fly said:

I’m an OSU fan and I complain about both. And I’ll complain about you! Watch out

My post was tongue in cheek bud. It’s not that serious. I’ve asked several times in these convos how knee stalling can be beat because I’m genuinely curious from a technique standpoint. It’s a little silly to want refs to “fix it”

i agree.

i haven't read every post.

[alex1fly]

23 hours ago, Scouts Honor said:

i agree.

i haven't read every post.

All good

i do think it’d be hilarious to see Ferrari(s) get dinged every time they go down on a knee.  Just for the comedic value. But changing the rules around it… meh. Techniques evolve. 
 

Edited December 31, 2025 by alex1fly

[pmilk]

Scourge...happy to do so...and the names that we knew them as ---snapdown, post set cross snap, sidesnap, headwhip, shuck, elbow throw, boot scoot, limp arm underhook, front headlock combo's, shoulder extension knee trip, underhook cross wrist limp arm, misdirection hand shove, overhook limp arm, fireman's knee trip (Churella was the best I've seen with it from the knees). Lots of options if you know the techniques and set-ups. If a guy with one leg is allowed to drop to a knee to wrestle, then the same allowance has to be universal to bipeds as well. And there is no guaranteed way to score on someone from the feet either...just lots of options and set-ups. If there was one "guaranteed" way, then why practice anything else. Smart guys/coaches figure out ways to score instead of complaining or trying to change the rules. 

[MPhillips]

11 minutes ago, pmilk said:

happy to do so

[scourge165]

1 hour ago, pmilk said:

Scourge...happy to do so...and the names that we knew them as ---snapdown, post set cross snap, sidesnap, headwhip, shuck, elbow throw, boot scoot, limp arm underhook, front headlock combo's, shoulder extension knee trip, underhook cross wrist limp arm, misdirection hand shove, overhook limp arm, fireman's knee trip (Churella was the best I've seen with it from the knees). Lots of options if you know the techniques and set-ups. If a guy with one leg is allowed to drop to a knee to wrestle, then the same allowance has to be universal to bipeds as well. And there is no guaranteed way to score on someone from the feet either...just lots of options and set-ups. If there was one "guaranteed" way, then why practice anything else. Smart guys/coaches figure out ways to score instead of complaining or trying to change the rules. 

Yes, I'm aware of them all and... I think most high level Wrestlers are like Carter Starocci and yet, he struggled against a guy who just dropped to a knee and backed up.

I just... don't see anything that's an "automatic" TD if you use it. The Boot Scoot in particular. You need forward pressure and then you need to change levels when they're pushing in. How are you getting that if someone like... Ferrari isn't pushing in and he's on both knees?

To the part in bold...does it? I don't know, one literally had no choice because he had one leg and he was an outlier, but... fine, setting that aside, Robles was more aggressive on his one knee than most of the guys who consistently drop down to a knee(I'm mostly thinking Ferrari here as plenty of guys drop down to a knee, few do it with the frequency they do through the whole match). 

 

 

1 hour ago, pmilk said:

And there is no guaranteed way to score on someone from the feet either...just lots of options and set-ups. If there was one "guaranteed" way, then why practice anything else.

Well, my mistake. Perhaps I misunderstood you when you said it should be an "automatic" TD for "guaranteed" TD. They seem synonymous, but... my mistake.

And of course there's no Guaranteed way to score from the feet. There's counters and there's more chain Wrestling now and scrambling than there's ever been. 

But it's more likely to create action. Just dropping down to a knee and backing up... that's pretty much the definition of stalling. Hitting a couple shots a match in between when it's safe... we'll see how it plays out. It's why I think Ferrari loses at '84 and god willing his Brother will lose at HWT.

[scourge165]

On 12/30/2025 at 9:04 AM, Caveira said:

Sometimes Ferrari’s style is pretty boring.  
 

not as boring as stallrocci sitting on an ankle for a week boring.   But boring. 

He's got a 25% bonus rate. 

You were telling me last year when Starocci had a 83% bonus rate how boring he was. 

I genuinely hate this phrase, but..."the Math's not Mathing."

 

"I'm just biased" works fine also. It's also understandable. 

[Caveira]

13 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

He's got a 25% bonus rate. 

You were telling me last year when Starocci had a 83% bonus rate how boring he was. 

I genuinely hate this phrase, but..."the Math's not Mathing."

 

"I'm just biased" works fine also. It's also understandable. 

  

Also  thanks for pointing out Ferrari’s fr year bonus percent is 25%.  Fun fact.   Carter starocci’s bonus rate in his first non Rs year (aka freshmen) was literally exactly 18.75%.   Weird right?  The only people he bonused that year were ranked #118, #68, and  #54

the bonus machine also couldn’t take Ferrari down either.   Weird. 
 

Ferrari isn’t a 5x ncaa champion who decided his bonus rate sucked so bad over his career he decided to try to bonus people in his 5th year to show some peeps he wasn’t like watching paint dry.

Edited December 31, 2025 by Caveira