Dropping to a Knee. Is it stalling?

[Winners Circle]

This may be a topic elsewhere, I'm just too lazy to find it. But yea, is dropping to a knee from the neutral position stalling? I see it as, you're dropping to a knee to prevent your opponent from shooting on you, which by definition of the rule book (stalling = avoiding wrestling), is stalling. I don't care if you attack from there or not, if you drop to a knee, you're stalling. Thoughts?

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

7 minutes ago, Winners Circle said:

This may be a topic elsewhere, I'm just too lazy to find it. But yea, is dropping to a knee from the neutral position stalling? I see it as, you're dropping to a knee to prevent your opponent from shooting on you, which by definition of the rule book (stalling = avoiding wrestling), is stalling. I don't care if you attack from there or not, if you drop to a knee, you're stalling. Thoughts?

How about a snap down or front headlock for the other guy?

[jchapman]

Anthony Robles wrestled from all fours in neutral.  He was not called for stalling because he stayed centered on the mat and engaged with the opponent.  Dropping to a knee needs context before we decide if it is stalling.

[ionel]

14 minutes ago, Winners Circle said:

 you're dropping to a knee to ...

... change levels.

 

Is a Russian two on one stalling ... you are grabbing his arm because?  

[Wildcat92]

4 minutes ago, jchapman said:

Anthony Robles wrestled from all fours in neutral.  He was not called for stalling because he stayed centered on the mat and engaged with the opponent.  Dropping to a knee needs context before we decide if it is stalling.

All threes

[Winners Circle]

12 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

How about a snap down or front headlock for the other guy?

Big difference between being put in a FHL and dropping to a knee. 

4 minutes ago, ionel said:

... change levels.

 

Is a Russian two on one stalling ... you are grabbing his arm because?  

What is try to score, Alex? If you're using a Russian 2-on-1 to prevent wrestling, you're stalling. 

[Tyler]

I can think of 3 guys that primarily wrestle from a knee. Aj, Angelo and Ayala. I don’t know if I’d necessarily call it stalling, but none of them are prolific scorers 

[Winners Circle]

Just now, Tyler said:

I can think of 3 guys that primarily wrestle from a knee. Aj, Angelo and Ayala. I don’t know if I’d necessarily call it stalling, but none of them are prolific scorers 

**Brain reaction**

[Tyler]

2 minutes ago, Winners Circle said:

**Brain reaction**

Stalling

[Gene Mills Fan]

dropping to a knee is stalling if the other guy has three to four scoring attempts to your none and maybe if it is to avoid hand fighting

[Winners Circle]

1 minute ago, Gene Mills Fan said:

dropping to a knee is stalling if the other guy has three to four scoring attempts to your none and maybe if it is to avoid hand fighting

So just say yes. Lol

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

5 minutes ago, Winners Circle said:

Big difference between being put in a FHL and dropping to a knee. 

What is try to score, Alex? If you're using a Russian 2-on-1 to prevent wrestling, you're stalling. 

You miss the point: Why doesn't the other wrestler just put the grounded wrestler into an FHL?  He has that option... go behinds are one of the best ways to score and Ayala/Ferrari/Lockett/Burrough/Dake/Smith are already on a knee for you.  That is half the battle.  Maybe the guy on two legs is stalling because he refuses to attempt a go-behind?

[JimmyCinnabon]

The last time I coached wrestling, which was on Monday evening, the penetration step is dropping to a knee!

[Winners Circle]

1 minute ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

You miss the point: Why doesn't the other wrestler just put the grounded wrestler into an FHL?  He has that option... go behinds are one of the best ways to score and Ayala/Ferrari/Lockett/Burrough/Dake/Smith are already on a knee for you.  That is half the battle.  Maybe the guy on two legs is stalling because he refuses to attempt a go-behind?

I don't remember Burroughs or Dake being prolific "drop to a knee guys". Dropping to a knee is actually called passive in freestyle, so I doubt they did it too much. Which Smith are you referring to? 
 

And just because you get a FHL doesn't mean you will score. 

[jchapman]

1 minute ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

You miss the point: Why doesn't the other wrestler just put the grounded wrestler into an FHL?  He has that option... go behinds are one of the best ways to score and Ayala/Ferrari/Lockett/Burrough/Dake/Smith are already on a knee for you.  That is half the battle.  Maybe the guy on two legs is stalling because he refuses to attempt a go-behind?

Couldn't the wrestler on two legs also drop to a knee?  And if the first wrestler doesn't hop up and attempt a FHL, he is stalling?  It could go on and on like that.

[ionel]

2 minutes ago, jchapman said:

Couldn't the wrestler on two legs also drop to a knee?  And if the first wrestler doesn't hop up and attempt a FHL, he is stalling?  It could go on and on like that.

Look at how DT coached Ryder & Doucet to defend the Ferrari knee drop, that's a good approach.  Although there's still the chance of that single takedown or ride point.  

[alex1fly]

My god, no, dropping to a knee or two knees is not stalling. You can wrestle from a knee. You can also stall from a knee. Make the call based on the action, not the position. 

Maybe the question should be, "when is wrestling from a knee considered stalling". Because that's open to interpretation and actually happens in matches.

4 minutes ago, ionel said:

Look at how DT coached Ryder & Doucet to defend the Ferrari knee drop, that's a good approach.  Although there's still the chance of that single takedown or ride point.  

I'll have to go back and watch those matches. Figured it was only a matter of time until folks started coaching in anti-Ferrari strategies.

[Winners Circle]

4 minutes ago, alex1fly said:

My god, no, dropping to a knee or two knees is not stalling. You can wrestle from a knee. You can also stall from a knee. Make the call based on the action, not the position. 

Maybe the question should be, "when is wrestling from a knee considered stalling". Because that's open to interpretation and actually happens in matches.

I'll have to go back and watch those matches. Figured it was only a matter of time until folks started coaching in anti-Ferrari strategies.

That's what we need, more gray area on stalling...lmao.

[VakAttack]

@nhs67 says no, he's a big fan.

[Hank]

no

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

24 minutes ago, Winners Circle said:

I don't remember Burroughs or Dake being prolific "drop to a knee guys". Dropping to a knee is actually called passive in freestyle, so I doubt they did it too much. Which Smith are you referring to? 
 

And just because you get a FHL doesn't mean you will score. 

I believe it is passive in FS bc of guys like Dake using it to defend against Burroughs.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

What if I drop to a knee in the process of shooting?  Or must all attacks occur while standing on two feet?

[ionel]

1 minute ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

What if I drop to a knee in the process of shooting?

throwing your shot is a form of stalling so ...

[Winners Circle]

2 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

What if I drop to a knee in the process of shooting?  Or must all attacks occur while standing on two feet?

Yep. Stalling. Lmao. Obviously not you silly goose. It would be a count situation, similar to the drop down or side headlock from top. It's a 5 count and you must come up before 5 or it's stalling. If you "game the system" and drop down right after the count ends, that can be called at the ref's discretion.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

Just now, Winners Circle said:

Yep. Stalling. Lmao. Obviously not you silly goose. It would be a count situation, similar to the drop down or side headlock from top. It's a 5 count and you must come up before 5 or it's stalling. If you "game the system" and drop down right after the count ends, that can be called at the ref's discretion.

That is my point.  We don't need any more stupid clocks or countdowns.  Why not just make it ref's discretion? Oh, it already is?