FINAL X...

[Pinnacle]

Another iconic photograph. A known top notch photographer on PSU got this image of high schooler PJ Duke in mid air after pinning Yianni D at Final X. Well done. 

 

[de4856]

7 hours ago, TylerDurden said:

Greco

No doubt Dake would be great at Greco, but could he be good enough to win or medal at the World’s? My thought is that he would probably come up a little short of making our team, but you never know. 

[MJD]

1 minute ago, de4856 said:

No doubt Dake would be great at Greco, but could he be good enough to win or medal at the World’s? My thought is that he would probably come up a little short of making our team, but you never know. 

I think it's his best shot at his age. His freestyle ship has sailed.

[GrandOlm]

3 hours ago, de4856 said:

No doubt Dake would be great at Greco, but could he be good enough to win or medal at the World’s? My thought is that he would probably come up a little short of making our team, but you never know. 

At the risk of sounding like a one note age determinist, the probability tables for Greco as you age are even worse than freestyle at the light and middle weights. 

It's only super heavyweights who can go into their early 40s (Roshcilin, Lopez), but they're almost practicing a different  sport from the lighter weight classes. 

Light weight greco is an utter grind. So destructive on the body. It's not uncommon for a guy to have one olympic cycle in him before he gets to damaged to be champion level. Middleweights are like a milder version of that. I took a quick glance at the most successful light and middle weights and I think the oldest one was 32 when he medaled gold. Americans tend to be on the older side when they first medal because they have to take a decade to catch up and learn the style. Dake doesn't have that time. 

He'll have an easier go at making the world team. But I don't see him doing well at the world level.  77kg is young mans weight class with Nao Kusaka (who emerged as the nr1  and is 24 years old) plus Akzhol (who might be past his prime already). Russia will have a hungry guy at 77 kg. 

At 87 kg he'll be undersized and have to beat much naturally bigger and younger men like Bisultanov, Losnoczi, Komarov, Takacs. 6 ft+ men who walk around at over 200 lbs. 

[flyingcement]

7 hours ago, Pinnacle said:

Another iconic photograph. A known top notch photographer on PSU got this image of high schooler PJ Duke in mid air after pinning Yianni D at Final X. Well done. 

 

it also captures the agony of defeat from Yianni's angle.  it's a great photo

[MPhillips]

16 hours ago, Pinnacle said:

A known top notch photographer on PSU

Scott Pilutik...

[Pinnacle]

10 hours ago, flyingcement said:

it also captures the agony of defeat from Yianni's angle.  it's a great photo

It reminds of the old entry into Wide World of Sports. "The thrill of victory and the agony of defeat". 

[lu1979]

On 6/15/2025 at 2:59 PM, GrandOlm said:

Campbell was a career heavyweight though (and even he only managed a bronze). He won gold at  1981 worlds at 90 kg and then the bronze in 1992 at 90 kg as well.  

The general aging progressions for Freestyle are Lightweights start declining in their late 20s, Middleweights in their early 30s, and Heavyweights in their mid 30s. There are exceptions, but that's the general trend. 

Dake is a natural middleweight who aged out of 74 kg (just like Boroughs) and is now trying to force 86 kg to work because he can't stand the cut and has lost a step or two. 

The World Gold CC won in 1981 was at 82KG (180lbs) as was the 1980 Olympic team spot he won.  when he returned 10 years later to compete it was at 90kg (198lbs)

[mspart]

Classic.

mspart

 

[D3 for LU]

On 6/15/2025 at 4:36 PM, D3 for LU said:

I knew of Campbell's achievements before Barcelona, but thanks for the review.

Still, it's admirable accomplishment to nab a world/olympic medal in your later years.

tanxs!

D3

ps... Chris' World gold in '81 was @ 80Kg.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1981_World_Wrestling_Championships

Goshawlfishooks!!!!

You would think that I would pay MORE attention to the reference mentioned in my post, but NOoooo!

(... yep it was 82 Kg for his gold medal.)

D3

[GimJustafan]

 

[mspart]

Should be some entertainment in Fargo with Vito and Jax!

mspart

[GlassPrison]

I’m just starting to follow and learn more about international freestyle.  Is there a good way to follow trials from other countries too?  I’d like to learn more about the guys that are top competition for the US team at worlds, but have no idea where to look for that info or updates.  

[MPhillips]

18 minutes ago, GlassPrison said:

Is there a good way

FLO if it matters enough...

[WrestleFan12]

Until the Yianni-PJ rubber match, I never considered that the ordering of matches for an event is potentially significant. If you are part of the first couple of bouts, you can get substantially more time to rest if a third match is required. Seems like Yianni could have used a little more time to both rest and to strategize.

[nhs67]

23 hours ago, GlassPrison said:

I’m just starting to follow and learn more about international freestyle.  Is there a good way to follow trials from other countries too?  I’d like to learn more about the guys that are top competition for the US team at worlds, but have no idea where to look for that info or updates.  

Short of time atm, but there are a few accounts on Twitter to keep an eye on.

[GrandOlm]

On 6/20/2025 at 5:06 PM, GlassPrison said:

I’m just starting to follow and learn more about international freestyle.  Is there a good way to follow trials from other countries too?  I’d like to learn more about the guys that are top competition for the US team at worlds, but have no idea where to look for that info or updates.  

The only other countries that are sufficiently strong and complex enough to make a foreigners time worthwhile would be Iran, Russia, and Japan. I don't think any of these countries have an end all be all team trial.  

Russia has the most straight forward process. They have a tournament called the Russian Nationals (it's a direct  descendant of the Soviet National Championships) where citizens from the country compete under the flag of their province (multiple entrants per province are aloud). If you win that tournament you are either the world/olympic rep or if there is a highly decorated athlete in that weight class who did not win/participate, they'll have them wrestle off with the  winner of the Russian Nationals. It's important to note that Russian wrestling is dominated by two ethnic minorities, an Iranic speaking people called Ossetians and the muslim ethnic groups that live around Dagestan (Dagestani is not an ethnicity). Flo would invite a Slavic Russian wrestler from St Petersburg to try to get inside scoops on the Russian scene and it ended up not working at all because he was as much of a stranger to these two communities as Christian Pyles was. He wasn't imbedded in either the Ossetian or Dagestan scenes, so he had no interesting information to give.  

Iran does not have a formal process. Whoever is in charge of the national team picks the team, and whatever process he does or does not want comes up on the fly. It will be something like they'll send 3 tough guys from 125 kg to this ranking series and its understood that if someone from Iran wins it they get the spot. They do have a domestic wrestling wrestling scene. From what I've seen  it's like European in soccer in that there are clubs and they can buy and sell wrestlers for their club team. So Zara and Yazdanis have clubs that they represent. I don't know how often the top world teamer Iranians actually wrestle in this club system and it features a lot of lower level competitors. The club season exists independently from what happens in international wrestling. Oh and most of their wrestlers come from a province called Mazandaran.  

Japan's I know the least about. I think their wrestling is based around Universities (not that it's like American College wrestling, just that Unis are the entity which provides them the framework for training and being a team). They have a  tournament called the Emperor's Cup which is involved with how they pick their team. I don't remember what their other tournaments are called but I think they have one or two other big ones. I also am not exactly sure how they chose the team. I remember reading something like if you win X and the Emperors cup you're guaranteed the spot. 

So for watching, the easiest place to start with is youtube. Typing in Russian Nationals in Cyrillic or trying to find the federations channels. If you can't find the whole, you might find clips. Twitter might be good to check out, both English speaking and local language. Wrestling is still very much niche in Russian and Japan, so even for native speakers it's not the easiest thing to get into.  

[AgaveMaria]

Considering what the Orange A-hole just did to Iran they might not be much of a threat at International tournaments where USA wrestlers are for awhile.

[GlassPrison]

13 hours ago, GrandOlm said:

The only other countries that are sufficiently strong and complex enough to make a foreigners time worthwhile would be Iran, Russia, and Japan. I don't think any of these countries have an end all be all team trial.  

Russia has the most straight forward process. They have a tournament called the Russian Nationals (it's a direct  descendant of the Soviet National Championships) where citizens from the country compete under the flag of their province (multiple entrants per province are aloud). If you win that tournament you are either the world/olympic rep or if there is a highly decorated athlete in that weight class who did not win/participate, they'll have them wrestle off with the  winner of the Russian Nationals. It's important to note that Russian wrestling is dominated by two ethnic minorities, an Iranic speaking people called Ossetians and the muslim ethnic groups that live around Dagestan (Dagestani is not an ethnicity). Flo would invite a Slavic Russian wrestler from St Petersburg to try to get inside scoops on the Russian scene and it ended up not working at all because he was as much of a stranger to these two communities as Christian Pyles was. He wasn't imbedded in either the Ossetian or Dagestan scenes, so he had no interesting information to give.  

Iran does not have a formal process. Whoever is in charge of the national team picks the team, and whatever process he does or does not want comes up on the fly. It will be something like they'll send 3 tough guys from 125 kg to this ranking series and its understood that if someone from Iran wins it they get the spot. They do have a domestic wrestling wrestling scene. From what I've seen  it's like European in soccer in that there are clubs and they can buy and sell wrestlers for their club team. So Zara and Yazdanis have clubs that they represent. I don't know how often the top world teamer Iranians actually wrestle in this club system and it features a lot of lower level competitors. The club season exists independently from what happens in international wrestling. Oh and most of their wrestlers come from a province called Mazandaran.  

Japan's I know the least about. I think their wrestling is based around Universities (not that it's like American College wrestling, just that Unis are the entity which provides them the framework for training and being a team). They have a  tournament called the Emperor's Cup which is involved with how they pick their team. I don't remember what their other tournaments are called but I think they have one or two other big ones. I also am not exactly sure how they chose the team. I remember reading something like if you win X and the Emperors cup you're guaranteed the spot. 

So for watching, the easiest place to start with is youtube. Typing in Russian Nationals in Cyrillic or trying to find the federations channels. If you can't find the whole, you might find clips. Twitter might be good to check out, both English speaking and local language. Wrestling is still very much niche in Russian and Japan, so even for native speakers it's not the easiest thing to get into.  

Thank you, this is super helpful and informative!

[BigRedFan]

12 hours ago, AgaveMaria said:

Considering what the Orange A-hole just did to Iran they might not be much of a threat at International tournaments where USA wrestlers are for awhile.

Curious why anyone would allow USA wrestlers to compete at international tournaments at this point.

[The Kid]

29 minutes ago, BigRedFan said:

Curious why anyone would allow USA wrestlers to compete at international tournaments at this point.

Me too.

[MPhillips]

AIN

[Window12]

On 6/22/2025 at 2:14 AM, GrandOlm said:

 

Iran does not have a formal process. Whoever is in charge of the national team picks the team, and whatever process he does or does not want comes up on the fly. It will be something like they'll send 3 tough guys from 125 kg to this ranking series and it’s understood that if someone from Iran wins it they get the spot. They do have a domestic wrestling wrestling scene. From what I've seen  it's like European in soccer in that there are clubs and they can buy and sell wrestlers for their club team. So Zara and Yazdanis have clubs that they represent. I don't know how often the top world teamer Iranians actually wrestle in this club system and it features a lot of lower level competitors. The club season exists independently from what happens in international wrestling. Oh and most of their wrestlers come from a province called Mazandaran.  

 

Iran has the national tournament as well as the Takhti cup. Doing well in these is the prerequisite for being considered a contender for the weight. Often there is written and predefined ‘cycle’ for who ultimately gets the national nomination which would also involve competing in international tournaments. The Takhti cup and National Championships are not based on league structure but instead individual provinces send wrestlers based on quotas. Often you see Mazandaran wrestlers participating under the flag/quota of other provinces. The league competitions is separate and performed with teams ( not individual winners for the competition but teams winners)often with industrial sponsors that allows a revenue stream for the athletes. They will often have wrestlers from Russia also participate as the funding whilst not huge is enough to be conducive to participation.

[shiraz321]

On 6/22/2025 at 2:14 AM, GrandOlm said:

 

 

Japan's I know the least about. I think their wrestling is based around Universities (not that it's like American College wrestling, just that Unis are the entity which provides them the framework for training and being a team). They have a  tournament called the Emperor's Cup which is involved with how they pick their team. I don't remember what their other tournaments are called but I think they have one or two other big ones. I also am not exactly sure how they chose the team. I remember reading something like if you win X and the Emperors cup you're guaranteed the spot. 

 

Japan has a  2 step process.  First stage is the Emperor's cup in December and second step  is the Meiji cup in June. If you win both you are guaranteed a spot on the world team. If the winner of the Meiji cup is different to the Emperor's cup then they will wrestle off for the spot. The wrestle off is just a 1 off match, not best 2 of 3. The wrestle off is held on the same day as the gold medal match of that weight in the Meiji cup, probably about an hour or so after the gold medal match concludes. The winner of the Emperor's cup could even lose in the first round of the Meiji cup and still come back and get the world team spot as winning the Emperor's cup guarantees you the wrestle off opportunity no matter how poorly you do in the Meiji cup.

They give no advantage at all to returning world medalists except for olympic years  where if you win a medal  at the last world championships prior the the Olympics(or maybe even just qualify the weight?) you are automatically on the Olympic team. 

 

As for the Iran process, yes, it is decided by the coaches and federation. If they don't trust a particular wrestler they can make it extremely difficult for them to make a team.  The federation has written out a process for this year and last year to make the world team but it varies from weight to weight. They placed importance on the Takhti cup initially and said everyone has to compete at it but a bunch of guys ( Javan (61kg), Amouzad, a few guys at 70, Nokhodi, Ghasempour, Firouzpour, Azarpira) missed it for various reasons like injury or good performances in previous tournaments excusing them from the Takhti cup. All these wrestlers are either confirmed to be on the world team ( that probably won't even go to worlds) or still have a chance to be on the world team. Its usually a mix of past international performances and performance in foreign tournaments. Having won prior world medals, even if not directly from the previous year's worlds championships, gives you a big advantage in the process as coaches will go out of there way to make it easier for you to be on the team.