Trumps Tariffs

[uncle bernard]

35 minutes ago, Gene Mills Fan said:

WKN Maybe we can disagree but share opinions. The other country can pay their labor because their goods are being sold. By importing their product we are paying their labor( half their gov steals the other half). we want to make our own autos, machined parts, pharmaceuticals, computer chips, we want those jobs back. Any immigrant doing these jobs over here would soon assimilate to citizenship to get his company benefits, there is no deportation for citizens.

You can never solve that problem without heavily regulating domestic industry and strengthening labor power (specifically union power). Corporate power - through their agents, the Republicans from the start and later the Democrats - worked extremely hard to dismantle that labor power and outsource their labor to cheaper international sources.

There is zero possible world where Trump is willing to address that issue. The tariffs are like putting a bandaid over a gaping wound.

[Ohio Elite]

American made.

[D3 for LU]

I don't know all about THAT $h!t... but my IRA is:

D3

[D3 for LU]

Welp... it looks like I will have to work well into my seventies (and beyond.)

THAT IS... if I still have a job.

D3

[jross]

Steelman on tariffs.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1907880105369845865.html

[Paul158]

2 hours ago, lisa morales said:

The President of the United States is a gobsmacking moron who doesn't know ANYTHING about ANYTHING, but he's so surrounded by terrified sycophants and drooling wormtongues either hoping for a little bag of gold or cowed to death, so nobody will dare call him an idiot to his face. The entire Republican Party is a bag of useless phlegm who refuse to do anything about him.

 

We have never been so needessly and mindlessly self-wounded in our history before. Brace yourselves, beause it's going to get worse.

 

The View is now on this thread. Welcome Whoopi and Joy.

[lisa morales]

There is nothing the fat man won't destroy.  Meanwhile Melania is living her best life F....ing Justin Truedeu home and away.  

[Wrestleknownothing]

2 hours ago, Gene Mills Fan said:

WKN Maybe we can disagree but share opinions. The other country can pay their labor because their goods are being sold. By importing their product we are paying their labor( half their gov steals the other half). we want to make our own autos, machined parts, pharmaceuticals, computer chips, we want those jobs back. Any immigrant doing these jobs over here would soon assimilate to citizenship to get his company benefits, there is no deportation for citizens.

We are being fed a very mixed message on tariffs. Some may call that a lie. Trump has attempted to sell these as retaliation for unfair trade practices (tariffs imposed on US goods, protectionists policies and taxes). If the goal was really to remove those barriers imposed by other nations then you would need to target those nations and those policies to have a chance at being effective.

But that is not what happened. Tariffs are being imposed willy-nilly based on balance of trade. They took a hyper simplistic approach. And the effect was predictable. Now other countries will impose retaliatory tariffs on the US. Imbalance of trade can be the result of unfair practices. But what you describe above is not that. Cheaper labor in other countries is a structural advantage. Tariffs will never solve that problem. Tariffs will only serve to import inflation.

The tariff formula they used makes matters worse. And they knew what they were doing was simplistic so they attempted to dress up their formula with superscripts and subscripts that have no meaning. And they added Greek letters that exactly offset each other (4 x .25 = 1) while citing studies that DO NOT support those values.

This is so poorly executed after being so poorly conceived. That is why the market is selling off hard. A complete unforced error. And Trump will absolutely violate the first rule of holes. Now that he is in one, he keep digging.

[Gene Mills Fan]

52 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

We are being fed a very mixed message on tariffs. Some may call that a lie. Trump has attempted to sell these as retaliation for unfair trade practices (tariffs imposed on US goods, protectionists policies and taxes). If the goal was really to remove those barriers imposed by other nations then you would need to target those nations and those policies to have a chance at being effective.

But that is not what happened. Tariffs are being imposed willy-nilly based on balance of trade.

I was hoping the goal was to increase domestic manufacturing, people says its never going to happen. I'm a product designer so I'll never give in. I think we don't really export enough product to worry about foreign purchasing(lowering the barriers) other than commodities, so I guess I'm narrow minded stuck on consumer goods. The foreign cost of labor advantage is offset by shipping costs and specialized educated per centage of our labor force is shrinking so can be competitive. Also supporting the foreign labor abuse structure furthers the disparity. 

I agree we shouldn't just be pissing everyone off as a bargaining chip. And certain areas should be considered off limits.

Sometimes start making something and develop it, fix what's wrong works in a prototype product sense, to speed the deliverable but I see the need for some ease and consideration.

[billyhoyle]

8 minutes ago, Gene Mills Fan said:

I was hoping the goal was to increase domestic manufacturing, people says its never going to happen. I'm a product designer so I'll never give in. I think we don't really export enough product to worry about foreign purchasing(lowering the barriers) other than commodities, so I guess I'm narrow minded stuck on consumer goods. The foreign cost of labor advantage is offset by shipping costs and specialized educated per centage of our labor force is shrinking so can be competitive. Also supporting the foreign labor abuse structure furthers the disparity. 

I agree we shouldn't just be pissing everyone off as a bargaining chip. And certain areas should be considered off limits.

Sometimes start making something and develop it, fix what's wrong works in a prototype product sense, to speed the deliverable but I see the need for some ease and consideration.

You don't increase domestic manufacturing by shutting down international trade entirely.  Nobody is going to invest in building factories to make something, when you can't sell it internationally and the economy is in a recession because everyone is getting laid off. 

The way this should have been done is to target some specific areas where domestic manufacturing is critical (like chips, cars, etc), and then tariff those specific products. Even better, make deals with countries like Canada and within the EU that won't undercut your cost of labor but you actually want to sell to. 

What's doing on right now is not going to work. The market is down almost 20% because people realize that companies are going to contract, lay off tons of people, and then the economy as a whole will tank. 

Edited yesterday at 05:13 PM by billyhoyle

[Scouts Honor]

i agree, we need to start making stuff here again.

but first we have to deal with the fact that if i start something...

i suddenly have 20-50 govt agencies crawling up my behind

and maybe other problems which i will post in a min.

[Scouts Honor]

 

[billyhoyle]

9 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

i agree, we need to start making stuff here again.

but first we have to deal with the fact that if i start something...

i suddenly have 20-50 govt agencies crawling up my behind

and maybe other problems which i will post in a min.

We aren't going to make things when mass layoffs hit and nobody has money to buy anything. The way you apply tariffs is to target them at specific industries or countries. Are we forgetting what things were like in 08/09? 

[scourge165]

3 hours ago, jross said:

Steelman on tariffs.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1907880105369845865.html

Quote

 

If rolled into 10-yr bonds, every 1 basis point drop in rates saves approx $1B/year; so a 0.5% drop would save $500B over a decade.

 

Nobody sees a problem with this?

That's 50B, not 500B per basis points over 10 years. 

 

And if your Economy Contracts as a result, do you come out AHEAD or behind? 700M to say 50B and our GDP will lose several times that unless Trump can find some trade deals where he declares himself the winner so he can save face...

[scourge165]

4 minutes ago, billyhoyle said:

We aren't going to make things when mass layoffs hit and nobody has money to buy anything. The way you apply tariffs is to target them at specific industries or countries. Are we forgetting what things were like in 08/09? 

PLEASE say that part LOUDER for the idiots who think that calling for tariffs in 1996 when a couple Democrat were talking about issuing Tariffs on certain industries in CHINA is the same as what we did on "liberation day."

[billyhoyle]

4 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

PLEASE say that part LOUDER for the idiots who think that calling for tariffs in 1996 when a couple Democrat were talking about issuing Tariffs on certain industries in CHINA is the same as what we did on "liberation day."

Thinking that we shouldn't let China monopolize the electric vehicle market, have Tiktok on every phone in the country, or be the world's producer of n95 masks is not the same thing as deciding to shut down international trade entirely and impose a massive tax on the entire country. 

[Bigbrog]

5 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

PLEASE say that part LOUDER for the idiots who think that calling for tariffs in 1996 when a couple Democrat were talking about issuing Tariffs on certain industries in CHINA is the same as what we did on "liberation day."

Does it make you all warm and fuzzy to call people names constantly?  What do you get out of it...other than making yourself look like an a-hole?

[scourge165]

2 minutes ago, Bigbrog said:

Does it make you all warm and fuzzy to call people names constantly?  What do you get out of it...other than making yourself look like an a-hole?

Oh Christ...you want to talk about hypocrisy now?

[billyhoyle]

5 minutes ago, Bigbrog said:

Does it make you all warm and fuzzy to call people names constantly?  What do you get out of it...other than making yourself look like an a-hole?

I hope that the result of the crapstorm that is coming if they stick with the tariffs (economic retraction and mass layoffs) is less name-calling, tribalism, and a return to sensible economic policy. That's what happened in 08 and 09 with the measures put in place during the GFC. 

There is a very simple fix to this. Congress should be the body that determines whether to impose (or remove) tariffs. Not the whims of the executive branch. 

Edited yesterday at 05:45 PM by billyhoyle

[Bigbrog]

6 minutes ago, billyhoyle said:

I hope that the result of the crapstorm that is coming if they stick with the tariffs (economic retraction and mass layoffs) is less name-calling, tribalism, and a return to sensible economic policy. That's what happened in 08 and 09 with the measures put in place during the GFC. 

There is a very simple fix to this. Congress should be the body that determines whether to impose (or remove) tariffs. Not the whims of the executive branch. 

Thanks for sharing your opinion

[Bigbrog]

8 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

Oh Christ...you want to talk about hypocrisy now?

Go for it

[Paul158]

12 minutes ago, Bigbrog said:

Does it make you all warm and fuzzy to call people names constantly?  What do you get out of it...other than making yourself look like an a-hole?

At least they aren't using the F-Bombs the dumb--- and the sh--heads and dumbf---. I guess we should be thankful.

[Bigbrog]

23 minutes ago, Paul158 said:

At least they aren't using the F-Bombs the dumb--- and the sh--heads and dumbf---. I guess we should be thankful.

LOL...right?!?! 

[Scouts Honor]

 

[Scouts Honor]

2 hours ago, Scouts Honor said:

i agree, we need to start making stuff here again.

but first we have to deal with the fact that if i start something...

i suddenly have 20-50 govt agencies crawling up my behind

and maybe other problems which i will post in a min.

what gets me is 

all of the GOVT orgs that are crawling up my behind were created to help citizens.

but they make it so your ordinary citizen can't do anything... 

the only entity rich enough to create is the huge corp.

and you know who lobbies for regulations in many instances... huge corps...

to root out competition