184, can Starocci take Keckeisen?

[Gus]

27 minutes ago, Konquest said:

I think an interesting question is this:

If Parker Keckeisen loses a close NCAA final to Carter Starocci, where does he rank all-time among 1x NCAA champs? 

I'd certainly put him up there with Alan Fried, Andrew Howe, etc. as one of the best ever 1x champs.

Also, if PK were to beat Starocci and stop him from becoming 5x champ, is he in Hodge contention with guys like Gable, Mesenbrink who have no legit challengers?  Or does the winner of this match get MOW at the tournament and Gable gets the Hodge?

 

Dave Schultz

[PortaJohn]

51 minutes ago, Konquest said:

If Parker Keckeisen loses a close NCAA final to Carter Starocci, where does he rank all-time among 1x NCAA champs? 

I'd certainly put him up there with Alan Fried, Andrew Howe, etc. as one of the best ever 1x champs.

Might need to bookmark this question.  

List includes lots of studs. Bruce Baumgartner, Dave Schultz, Kenny Monday, Troy Nickerson, Kendall Cross.  Here's a good one for the Lehigh guys (@gimpeltf)....Kirk Pendelton, and we can't forget Dustin Schlatter

Edited Thursday at 09:43 PM by PortaJohn

[Idaho]

6 hours ago, BloodRound said:

If Starocci were to lose, what type of social media post is he making about it?

The real fun will be Ferrari's posts....

[RawDog]

3 hours ago, Konquest said:

I think an interesting question is this:

If Parker Keckeisen loses a close NCAA final to Carter Starocci, where does he rank all-time among 1x NCAA champs? 

I'd certainly put him up there with Alan Fried, Andrew Howe, etc. as one of the best ever 1x champs.

Also, if PK were to beat Starocci and stop him from becoming 5x champ, is he in Hodge contention with guys like Gable, Mesenbrink who have no legit challengers?  Or does the winner of this match get MOW at the tournament and Gable gets the Hodge?

 

Yes Keck becomes the best 1 time champ ever. Just look at who he has had to wrestle.

I think he should get the hodge if he wins. Noone else has ever stopped a 5 time national champion.

I also think if Carter wins he should get the hodge.

[ionel]

2 minutes ago, RawDog said:

Yes Keck becomes the best 1 time champ ever. Just look at who he has had to wrestle.

I think he should get the hodge if he wins. Noone else has ever stopped a 5 time national champion.

I also think if Carter wins he should get the hodge.

What about the Jimmy Goat award? 

[CHROMEBIRD]

10 hours ago, Le duke said:

Just like the match they already wrestled.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I assume the OP was asking if Starocci could take Keck... out to lunch, and the answer is clearly NO. I don't know what kind of NIL money Starocci's making, but Keck looks like he can EAT. No one's gonna want to get stuck with that bill!

[wrestle87]

I do believe the names in this thread title need to be reversed.

Starocci is a solid half-head above keckeisen as a wrestler, he's just been so unchallenged he hasn't really gotten to let his hair down so to speak.

Keckeisen is the type of wrestler who mauls everyone he feels good against, but he has zero chain attacks or flow to his style beyond "club-club shot, circle, club, shot".  Barring a massive strength advantage, which he doesn't have, the only people PSU guys lose to are those who are able to flow from and through positions in a more sophisticated fashion than their PSU opponents.  That is...very rare.  Keck has not shown that he is that dude yet in his college career. 

He's obviously an absolute killer, but he's kind of like the second coming of Andrew Howe.  Bruiser, out there to put you through it, but not a ton of tricks in the bag.  

Let's also keep in mind that Starocci has the last guy who stomped keckeisen in the room with him.  This is a wrestler that the PSU machine has game planned for before.  Can schwab, roper, and keck come up with a plan that stuns starocci and his coaches? It's technically possible.

Is it likely? No, no it is not.

[1032004]

8 hours ago, RawDog said:

Yes Keck becomes the best 1 time champ ever. Just look at who he has had to wrestle.

I think he should get the hodge if he wins. Noone else has ever stopped a 5 time national champion.

I also think if Carter wins he should get the hodge.

I agree the winner of 184 assuming one of these 2 (or McEnelly) should get the Hodge.  Gable doesn’t have enough matches IMO and Mesenbrink has less competition.

When you say Keckeisen would “become” the best 1xer, is that because otherwise he has a chance to be a 2xer?  Keep in mind like Starocci he’s already had 4 NCAA tournaments, and also like Starocci he had the benefit of a redshirt in 2020 prior to the free year in 2021.  He’d certainly be up there on the list of best 1xers though.   I think Mark Hall would have an argument also.

 

Edited Friday at 08:52 AM by 1032004

[RawDog]

3 hours ago, 1032004 said:

I agree the winner of 184 assuming one of these 2 (or McEnelly) should get the Hodge.  Gable doesn’t have enough matches IMO and Mesenbrink has less competition.

When you say Keckeisen would “become” the best 1xer, is that because otherwise he has a chance to be a 2xer?  Keep in mind like Starocci he’s already had 4 NCAA tournaments, and also like Starocci he had the benefit of a redshirt in 2020 prior to the free year in 2021.  He’d certainly be up there on the list of best 1xers though.   I think Mark Hall would have an argument also.

 

Mark Hall has a very good case. He had to deal with Zahid three years and got screwed out of his fourth year which he likely would have won. I still don't understand how the seniors that year got screwed out of their 4th year of eligibility and everyone else gained a year.

[nhs67]

13 hours ago, RawDog said:

Yes Keck becomes the best 1 time champ ever. Just look at who he has had to wrestle.

I think he should get the hodge if he wins. Noone else has ever stopped a 5 time national champion.

I also think if Carter wins he should get the hodge.

Career isn't a part of it, although I imagine some will consider it.

If Steveson bonuses his way through (which I believe that he will), there is not way he doesn't get Hodge.  Bonuses the prior years undefeated B1G and NCAA champ at B1Gs and NCAAs?

Signed.  Sealed.  Delivered.

[RawDog]

22 hours ago, nhs67 said:

Career isn't a part of it, although I imagine some will consider it.

If Steveson bonuses his way through (which I believe that he will), there is not way he doesn't get Hodge.  Bonuses the prior years undefeated B1G and NCAA champ at B1Gs and NCAAs?

Signed.  Sealed.  Delivered.

I wouldn't be surprised if Gable got it, however Keck is also a returning champ who I believe will be undefeated going into the NCAA finals with a higher bonus rate than kerk. A win over Keck is better than a win over Kerk.

 

[Rassling2]

On 2/20/2025 at 11:52 AM, nhs67 said:

Acting as if Starocci cannot beat him is silly.  He legitimately did it.

Now add a full season of acclimating to the weight and bear in mind that he had a failed drop to 74 KG (163lbs) four months prior to their last meeting and I think this might look more controlling than last time.  Starocci did have 35 seconds of riding time to PK's 7 seconds that time, as well.

I think we might see Starocci get that riding time advantage.

Here is the match from November.

 

Just watched it again. If these two are in the finals in March, Carter just-does-enough Starocci will win his fifth imo.

[nhs67]

3 hours ago, RawDog said:

I wouldn't be surprised if Gable got it, however Keck is also a returning champ who I believe will be undefeated going into the NCAA finals with a higher bonus rate than kerk. A win over Keck is better than a win over Kerk.

 

No it isn't.

Because Starocci has already beaten PK, even if it was the ASC.

Kerk hasn't lost since NCAA finals in 2023.

Also, weight classes exist for a reason.

[RawDog]

On 2/21/2025 at 8:25 AM, nhs67 said:

Career isn't a part of it, although I imagine some will consider it.

If Steveson bonuses his way through (which I believe that he will), there is not way he doesn't get Hodge.  Bonuses the prior years undefeated B1G and NCAA champ at B1Gs and NCAAs?

Signed.  Sealed.  Delivered.

Previous Hodge winners also get a vote. Penn State has a significant amount of votes that will all be going towards Starocci if he wins.

[boconnell]

On 2/20/2025 at 12:51 PM, Konquest said:

I think an interesting question is this:

If Parker Keckeisen loses a close NCAA final to Carter Starocci, where does he rank all-time among 1x NCAA champs? 

I'd certainly put him up there with Alan Fried, Andrew Howe, etc. as one of the best ever 1x champs.

Also, if PK were to beat Starocci and stop him from becoming 5x champ, is he in Hodge contention with guys like Gable, Mesenbrink who have no legit challengers?  Or does the winner of this match get MOW at the tournament and Gable gets the Hodge?

 

What makes Howe so high?  Does anybody consider Perry an all-time great?  Or Tyler Caldwell?  That's who stopped him from being more than a 1X champ.

[JeanGuy]

I would be surprised if Steveson gets a lot of support. I think there is a general fatigue with him. Some aren't thrilled that he was allowed to come back and wrestle this year. 

[nhs67]

13 hours ago, RawDog said:

Previous Hodge winners also get a vote. Penn State has a significant amount of votes that will all be going towards Starocci if he wins.

Are you saying that they would cast their vote under some sense of bias and not for this season's best, most impressive wrestler?

[nhs67]

4 hours ago, JeanGuy said:

I would be surprised if Steveson gets a lot of support. I think there is a general fatigue with him. Some aren't thrilled that he was allowed to come back and wrestle this year. 

Then by the same logic, Starocci should not be allowed to compete this season.

Thousand pound of bricks in one bucket and a thoudand pounds of snails in the other.

[1032004]

On 2/21/2025 at 9:25 AM, nhs67 said:

Career isn't a part of it, although I imagine some will consider it.

If Steveson bonuses his way through (which I believe that he will), there is not way he doesn't get Hodge.  Bonuses the prior years undefeated B1G and NCAA champ at B1Gs and NCAAs?

Signed.  Sealed.  Delivered.

What if Starocci bonuses Keckeisen?

[BruceyB]

14 hours ago, boconnell said:

What makes Howe so high?  Does anybody consider Perry an all-time great?  Or Tyler Caldwell?  That's who stopped him from being more than a 1X champ.

The topic is greatest 1x champs. Going 2, 1, 3, 2 as well his competitiveness at the senior level makes him deserving of being in the conversation.  Perry won some nasty brackets, and Tyler Caldwell is in the conversation of the best to never win an NCAA titles.

[Hank]

keck can beat stallrocci if keck doesnt play it slow and cautious.  go full throttle offense.  everyone always wrestles starocci scared/slow

[Gus]

3 minutes ago, Hank said:

keck can beat stallrocci if keck doesnt play it slow and cautious.  go full throttle offense.  everyone always wrestles starocci scared/slow

People wrestle Starocci slow and cautious because his positioning and hand fighting is insane

[Le duke]

2 hours ago, Gus said:

People wrestle Starocci slow and cautious because his positioning and hand fighting is insane

This. 

Plus, his defense is better than their offense. The more you shoot, unless you blow straight through him (unlikely; see: positioning, hand fighting), the more he scores. 

Re: pushing the pace. Carter Starocci wrestles one of the better "pace" wrestlers every day in practice. People might have heard of him. His name is Aaron Brooks, and he's better than Keckeisen. 

Edited 10 hours ago by Le duke

[Hank]

i haven't heard of brooks before.  he's probably just average.

[PortaJohn]

On 2/23/2025 at 12:09 PM, nhs67 said:

Then by the same logic, Starocci should not be allowed to compete this season.

Thousand pound of bricks in one bucket and a thoudand pounds of snails in the other.

But Gable left his shoes on the mat.  Party foul deduction