1032004 Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 13 hours ago, jross said: It does not matter if the boxer is or is not transgender, sex pref, passport gender, what is legal in the country, etc. All of that is a distraction that these females likely do have the xy chromosome. The rationality is clear. One boxer did not challenge the IBA action. One did and then dropped. One imagines this is a very big deal to these boxers. Boxing is their identity. Maybe they realized it was useless to appeal a decision from a corrupt organization? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrestlingRasta Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 It does not matter if everything that has been actually documented and presented (not just simply stated by a Russian official with nothing to actually show) states that this athlete is and always has been a woman, and is and always has been eligible to compete (prior to defeating a Russian and Uzbek in succession at the world championships in the most corrupt organization in Olympic sport). What matters is my feelings. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jross Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 18 minutes ago, 1032004 said: Maybe they realized it was useless to appeal a decision from a corrupt organization? Could be! Seems illogical to me. If I was in their shoes, I would publicly share my test results such that the 'conspiracy' was exposed, and I would find someone willing to sue. And there would be those willing to take my case. I would shout out the BS and show my evidence in social media, interviews, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrestlingRasta Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 (edited) 10 minutes ago, jross said: Could be! Seems illogical to me. If I was in their shoes, I would publicly share my test results such that the 'conspiracy' was exposed, and I would find someone willing to sue. And there would be those willing to take my case. I would shout out the BS and show my evidence in social media, interviews, etc. You’re not dealing with Russians either. To think it’s just as simple as you describe, shows you have no understanding of the situation, and I don’t say that to be rude, just matter of fact. As for dropping the appeal…she was qualified for the Olympics. That decision by the Russian didn’t affect her Olympics. So she could either spend the money, time, and stress to appeal, to the same corrupt organization that DQ’d her after she beat their boxer, an organization that has nothing to do with the Olympics (because they’re so corrupt)…..or she could focus on the Olympics. Seems like a pretty easy choice, if you understand who you’re dealing with that is. Edited August 2 by WrestlingRasta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jross Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 @WrestlingRasta Say more about that. What could the athlete possibly lose by showing the truth with evidence? Are they going to lose their ability to compete at Worlds? They already lost that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle bernard Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 31 minutes ago, jross said: @WrestlingRasta Say more about that. What could the athlete possibly lose by showing the truth with evidence? Are they going to lose their ability to compete at Worlds? They already lost that. time, money, and energy. and dignity. here’s some information on the broader context. like i said, this all started when she beat a russian boxer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrestlingRasta Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 37 minutes ago, jross said: @WrestlingRasta Say more about that. What could the athlete possibly lose by showing the truth with evidence? Are they going to lose their ability to compete at Worlds? They already lost that. A) She doesn't have the truth to show, the IBA and Russian official didn’t release it. I’m starting to believe you truly have no understanding with how things work with Russian authorities, again don’t mean that to be rude, just matter of fact. B) What she could possibly lose is the time and energy and focus on the Olympics, to go through with an appeal in front of the corrupt organization that placed the suspension on her. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobDole Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 4 hours ago, Bigbrog said: By the way, people throwing out the "see...there are more than two gender" B.S., this extremely rare genetic defect does not prove there are more than two genders...it proves there can be genetic defects. Gender is not as easily defined as looking in someone's pants as the mouth breathers want to think. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VakAttack Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 https://www.bbc.com/sport/olympics/articles/c2j3jg51rg4o?xtor=AL-72-[partner]-[bbc.news.twitter]-[headline]-[news]-[bizdev]-[isapi]&at_bbc_team=editorial&at_format=link 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jross Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 36 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said: A) She doesn't have the truth to show, the IBA and Russian official didn’t release it. I’m starting to believe you truly have no understanding with how things work with Russian authorities, again don’t mean that to be rude, just matter of fact. B) What she could possibly lose is the time and energy and focus on the Olympics, to go through with an appeal in front of the corrupt organization that placed the suspension on her. What is in the boxer's control is testing and messaging. The XY chromosome doesn't fluctuate like testosterone levels. A test is affordable, the test results are available in a timely manner, and the cell collection process for analysis is simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrestlingRasta Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 12 minutes ago, jross said: What is in the boxer's control is testing and messaging. The XY chromosome doesn't fluctuate like testosterone levels. A test is affordable, the test results are available in a timely manner, and the cell collection process for analysis is simple. I don’t think you’re a man Jross. If you don’t go out and get these tests on your own and bring them back to me, I will never believe you. Seriously, this is the hill you’re going to stand on now? When it is absolutely documented that she has always been a woman, has competed as a woman in this organization for seven years. Had always been cleared and allowed to compete, by this same group, until she beat a Russian and Uzbek, then immediately DQ’d (not before the tournament), and had qualified and was eligible for the Olympics, but not the most corrupt organization in Olympic sport, providing no proof of her failed test. Sorry, but that’s ridiculous. This is the very definition of refusing everything in front of you because it’s not what you want to believe. Everything that is actually documented and presented goes against what you want to believe, so she has to go out and get tests, which you say are affordable and timely……for your feelings. If so timely, why couldn't IBA have the results before the tournament started? Doesn’t that seem……logical? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobDole Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 23 hours ago, jross said: Put the test results aside for a moment. Should athletes with male characteristics (specifically XY chromosomes, high testosterone) and/or transgender athletes be allowed to compete in women’s sport? This should be what we are discussing, instead the anti-trans brigade is trying trying to learn biology on the fly and it is hilarious to see them try to comprehend this whole situation with Khelif having female genitals. Gender is a social construct and can be defined by more than what is in your pants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PortaJohn Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 (edited) 23 minutes ago, BobDole said: This should be what we are discussing, instead the anti-trans brigade is trying trying to learn biology on the fly and it is hilarious to see them try to comprehend this whole situation with Khelif having female genitals. Gender is a social construct and can be defined by more than what is in your pants. The biological component to this topic is fairly simple. There is XX, XY, with variants Klinefelter syndrome (XXY), Jacobs Syndrome( XYY) & Triple X. The gender social construct debate goes beyond sports. For example, Amy Schneider is officially the all time female Jeopardy winner. Transitioned in 2017. Is this title pro feminist or anti feminist? Julia Collins who previously had that title was born biologically female. Other example. The federal government aims to set aside contracts (5%) solely to assist Women Owned Small Businesses. If I choose to identify as a women am I now privy to those contracts? Edited August 2 by PortaJohn I Don't Agree With What I Posted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ionel Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 5 minutes ago, PortaJohn said: If I choose to identify as a women am I now privy to those contracts? ahh ... well ... we know you aren't so ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mspart Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 I know that incarcerated men in WA state prison are now in the women's prison because they decided to identify as female. One was bounced out due to raping an inmate, others who were incarcerated for raping women are allowed to stay because they now identify as a woman. Others have children with women. This is a farce. mspart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrestlingRasta Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 4 minutes ago, mspart said: I know that incarcerated men in WA state prison are now in the women's prison because they decided to identify as female. One was bounced out due to raping an inmate, others who were incarcerated for raping women are allowed to stay because they now identify as a woman. Others have children with women. This is a farce. mspart I’ve heard a number of these stories from other states as well. Unreal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VakAttack Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 4 minutes ago, mspart said: I know that incarcerated men in WA state prison are now in the women's prison because they decided to identify as female. One was bounced out due to raping an inmate, others who were incarcerated for raping women are allowed to stay because they now identify as a woman. Others have children with women. This is a farce. mspart This doesn't have anything to do with trans people. The Algerian boxer is not trans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offthemat Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 4 minutes ago, mspart said: I know that incarcerated men in WA state prison are now in the women's prison because they decided to identify as female. One was bounced out due to raping an inmate, others who were incarcerated for raping women are allowed to stay because they now identify as a woman. Others have children with women. This is a farce. mspart Yes it is. It doesn’t matter what you want, you are what you are. You won’t ever know what it feels like to be the opposite sex of what you were born no matter what you do. The most compassionate thing to do is to tell the truth. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offthemat Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 6 minutes ago, VakAttack said: This doesn't have anything to do with trans people. The Algerian boxer is not trans. That what I take from reports, but I seem to remember females being dqd in the past for elevated testosterone levels. Is that an issue here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mspart Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 3 minutes ago, VakAttack said: This doesn't have anything to do with trans people. The Algerian boxer is not trans. It has everything to do with trans people. In WA, if you are a male and say you identify as a female, you are trans. A boy just won the girls 400m run at the state championships. By WA definition, he is trans. Being from Algeria, I would have to agree that this boxer is not trans. She would be dead if she was. mspart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobDole Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 44 minutes ago, mspart said: I know that incarcerated men in WA state prison are now in the women's prison because they decided to identify as female. One was bounced out due to raping an inmate, others who were incarcerated for raping women are allowed to stay because they now identify as a woman. Others have children with women. This is a farce. mspart You mean to tell me criminals are criminals even behind bars? I am completely shocked that putting someone in prison doesn't stop them from being criminals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobDole Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 27 minutes ago, mspart said: It has everything to do with trans people. In WA, if you are a male and say you identify as a female, you are trans. A boy just won the girls 400m run at the state championships. By WA definition, he is trans. Being from Algeria, I would have to agree that this boxer is not trans. She would be dead if she was. mspart What restroom should Imane Khelif use? She has female genitals, but looks like a man and hits like a man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jross Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 (edited) 1 hour ago, WrestlingRasta said: I don’t think you’re a man Jross. If you don’t go out and get these tests on your own and bring them back to me, I will never believe you. Seriously, this is the hill you’re going to stand on now? When it is absolutely documented that she has always been a woman, has competed as a woman in this organization for seven years. Had always been cleared and allowed to compete, by this same group, until she beat a Russian and Uzbek, then immediately DQ’d (not before the tournament), and had qualified and was eligible for the Olympics, but not the most corrupt organization in Olympic sport, providing no proof of her failed test. Sorry, but that’s ridiculous. This is the very definition of refusing everything in front of you because it’s not what you want to believe. Everything that is actually documented and presented goes against what you want to believe, so she has to go out and get tests, which you say are affordable and timely……for your feelings. If so timely, why couldn't IBA have the results before the tournament started? Doesn’t that seem……logical? If I am an elite wrestler that is banned because of an easily disproved conspiracy, you are damn right that I'm going to address it. And it seems common sense to me that anyone with the gusto to become an elite would do the same. No bias in any direction changes the evidence pointing to an XY boxer competing in the Olympics against XX women. Edited August 2 by jross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestleknownothing Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 2 minutes ago, jross said: If I am an elite wrestler that is banned because of an easily disproved conspiracy, you are damn right that I'm going to address it. And it seems common sense to me that anyone with the gusto to become an elite would do the same. No bias in any direction changes the evidence pointing to an XY boxer competing in the Olympics. We have VERY different definitions of evidence. 1 Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobDole Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 30 minutes ago, Offthemat said: That what I take from reports, but I seem to remember females being dqd in the past for elevated testosterone levels. Is that an issue here? https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/olympics/2024/08/01/olympic-gender-testing-boxers/74615354007/ This explains how the IOC deals with gender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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