What was the lore/hype around some of legends coming into college?

[D3 for LU]

2 hours ago, MPhillips said:

Maxwell ‘not so’ Smart

D3

[Snoqualmie18]

In late 80s/early 90s, a couple of Cedar Falls (pre-Fargo) fame that were very well-known were Alan Fried, Scott Schlucter and TJ Jawrosky.  Closer to my neck of the woods, it was Ty Moore and Cary Kolat.  Kolat was on another level.  We in NJ had a guy named Pat Lynch who would typically place at Jr. Nationals.  He was one of the first of the ‘man-children’ – middle/upper weights who came in as freshman who could compete for state titles.  He had a great scholastic and freestyle/Greco career, but he is probably and unfortunately best known for not winning states as a senior after winning as a sophomore and junior largely untouched.  A real underrated wrestler from Lynch’s year was Steve Dalling.  2-time champ and 3-time finalist.  Don’t think he was nationally known - nothing flashy but solid in all positions.  Would have been a great college wrestler.        

[billyhoyle]

17 hours ago, Maxwell Smart said:

Throwing the "Brands Bros." in with Cael, Kolat, etc. and all the wrestlers that had amazing high school careers, again shows the sycophantic adoration for Terry and Tom. Their wrestling in high school was not extraordinary in any way.  They improved in college and got much better, but including them in the post shows the adulation in the forum. Don't think they belong in the same sentence of the many wrestlers mentioned. It's not hate to point this out.

Saying their high school career was "not extraordinary in any way" shows your own lack of knowledge. They were recruited by the greatest college wrestling coach of all time at his peak of dominance who could almost have his pick of any recruit in the country. Both Tom and Terry were undefeated as seniors in Iowa.  Tom set a record for the most takedowns in a season and most points in a season in his senior year of HS (https://www.iowawrestlinghalloffame.com/inductee/terry-brands-2).  They were absolutely dominant in the toughest (or close to toughest) wrestling state at the time, and the style that they wrestled made it clear to people who knew wrestling (Gable) that they would be great. 

You don't judge a recruit by the 4 year record (theirs was outstanding as well btw), but by how dominant they were when they were being recruited. 

 

[Smsu150]

7 hours ago, billyhoyle said:

Saying their high school career was "not extraordinary in any way" shows your own lack of knowledge. They were recruited by the greatest college wrestling coach of all time at his peak of dominance who could almost have his pick of any recruit in the country. Both Tom and Terry were undefeated as seniors in Iowa.  Tom set a record for the most takedowns in a season and most points in a season in his senior year of HS (https://www.iowawrestlinghalloffame.com/inductee/terry-brands-2).  They were absolutely dominant in the toughest (or close to toughest) wrestling state at the time, and the style that they wrestled made it clear to people who knew wrestling (Gable) that they would be great. 

You don't judge a recruit by the 4 year record (theirs was outstanding as well btw), but by how dominant they were when they were being recruited. 

 

The only thing I take issue with that the Brands brothers arrived at Iowa during Gable's "peak of dominance."  At this time the Hawks recently had their 9 year winning streak broken and would not win the title again for another three years,  it was the Brands brothers, amoungst others,  that helped return Iowa to dominance. 

Alan Fried was the most hyped wrestler I can remember for that era.  He was the first to win Jr. National Freestyle 4X, and typically did so in dominating fashion.  

 

[fishbane]

7 hours ago, billyhoyle said:

Saying their high school career was "not extraordinary in any way" shows your own lack of knowledge. They were recruited by the greatest college wrestling coach of all time at his peak of dominance who could almost have his pick of any recruit in the country.

I think the Brandses arrived in Iowa City at the nadir of Gable's tenure not the peak. Their senior year in high school Iowa failed to win NCAAs for the first time in 10 years.  The streak would extend to 4 years without a title before Iowa won during their redshirt junior season.

7 hours ago, billyhoyle said:

Both Tom and Terry were undefeated as seniors in Iowa.  Tom set a record for the most takedowns in a season and most points in a season in his senior year of HS.

This is not true.  Terry lost in the state final as a senior after winning as a sophomore and a junior.  Tom set that record his junior year when he won his only state title.  Tom didn't wrestle in the postseason as a senior because he was suspended by the school for sexual misconduct.  I would say that neither Brands ended their high school career on a high note.

On the national stage Terry was 5th in Fargo before entering his senior year and Tom was 4th.  After their senior year in 1987 Terry placed 3rd and Tom was 5th both at 123lbs.  Those finishes might have been a little late to play into recruiting hype.

I wasn't following wrestling in 1987, but I suspect that despite their outstanding records they were not the biggest recruits in the county that year.  Top 20 maybe top 10 would be my guess, but that could be biased high based on what they ultimately did in college.  Other 1987 high school grads that went on to win multiple NCAA titles include Kurt Angle, Jeff Prescott, and Matt DeMaray.

[fishbane]

1 hour ago, Smsu150 said:

Alan Fried was the most hyped wrestler I can remember for that era.  He was the first to win Jr. National Freestyle 4X, and typically did so in dominating fashion.  

 

Here is an article on flo about how some of the USA's best did at junior nationals.  It's focused on individuals that won world/Olympic medals so Fried isn't on there.

https://www.flowrestling.org/articles/5067700-how-did-wrestlings-best-fare-in-fargo

And here is an article on each states most successful wrestler in Fargo.  

https://www.flowrestling.org/articles/11106177-every-states-most-decorated-fargo-champion

Schlatter sits on top for Ohio with 6 Fargo titles.  Note sure how many were at the cadet level or in Greco compared with Fried's 4 junior freestyle.

[Bigbrog]

1 hour ago, fishbane said:

I think the Brandses arrived in Iowa City at the nadir of Gable's tenure not the peak. Their senior year in high school Iowa failed to win NCAAs for the first time in 10 years.  The streak would extend to 4 years without a title before Iowa won during their redshirt junior season.

This is not true.  Terry lost in the state final as a senior after winning as a sophomore and a junior.  Tom set that record his junior year when he won his only state title.  Tom didn't wrestle in the postseason as a senior because he was suspended by the school for sexual misconduct.  I would say that neither Brands ended their high school career on a high note.

On the national stage Terry was 5th in Fargo before entering his senior year and Tom was 4th.  After their senior year in 1987 Terry placed 3rd and Tom was 5th both at 123lbs.  Those finishes might have been a little late to play into recruiting hype.

I wasn't following wrestling in 1987, but I suspect that despite their outstanding records they were not the biggest recruits in the county that year.  Top 20 maybe top 10 would be my guess, but that could be biased high based on what they ultimately did in college.  Other 1987 high school grads that went on to win multiple NCAA titles include Kurt Angle, Jeff Prescott, and Matt DeMaray.

I had to look this word up...learn something new everyday!

[TNwrestling]

On 7/12/2024 at 8:15 AM, The_KC_Godfather said:

I was trying to remember two other guys and finally found them. Dallas Bailey was a relatively big name out of OK, but the main one I was thinking of was Eric "Mr. Florida" Grajales...

The ESPN special "The Streak" added to his lore. He was demolishing kids in that show. 

[TNwrestling]

On 7/11/2024 at 7:34 PM, Broomstick said:

Taylor v Stieber at Ironman?

I dont think that match was NEARLY as hyped as the Taylor vs Palmer match in the St Eds/StPG dual. Both 3x Oh state champs at the time. Taylor number 1 pfp and Palmer in the top 5. Taylor goes UP to face him. David was already a smaller 135 and Collin was a MASSIVE 140. Collin hadn't ever lost to anybody in the state of Ohio to that point and Taylor had 2 instate losses but had avenged both. 

 

It was billed the match of the century....then it lived up to the hype

[11986]

here's how hyped the Brands brothers were coming out of HS:

 

1987 High School All-Americans1.pdf (wrestlingusa.com)

Edited July 24 by 11986

[ILLINIWrestlingBlog]

5 hours ago, TNwrestling said:

The ESPN special "The Streak" added to his lore. He was demolishing kids in that show. 

That was a great documentary! I tried to find it on YouTube but only found this trailer/advertisement for the dvd on Amazon. Well worth any wrestler's time. Cheers!

 

 

[Maxwell Smart]

Thanks for clarifying the Brands Bros high school record and recruiting. When you're infatuated, your memory plays tricks on you.

[ionel]

2 hours ago, Maxwell Smart said:

Thanks for clarifying the Brands Bros high school record and recruiting. When you're infatuated, your memory plays tricks on you.

infatuated?

[Kerouac]

4 hours ago, Maxwell Smart said:

Thanks for clarifying the Brands Bros high school record and recruiting. When you're infatuated, your memory plays tricks on you.

Correct. I would love for Tom and Terry to birth my cyborg-Hawkeye-identical sons all because I included them in a wrestling forum question about college wrestling greats. Do us all a favor and note the ‘Legends’ included in the title. A question about how guys were seen coming out of high school. Not, “Who were the bluest of blue chips of all time?”. To say those two are not legends would be asinine. Yeah, you’re not a legend even if you have an Olympic medal or even some world titles.  Thank you for your observation of my horribly tainted memory. 

[Wrestleknownothing]

23 hours ago, 11986 said:

here's how hyped the Brands brothers were coming out of HS:

 

1987 High School All-Americans1.pdf (wrestlingusa.com)

That group of 102 wrestlers produced a total of 39 AA finishes with 6 titles.

• The Dream Team was the best with 20 AA's and 3 titles (Jeff Prescott x2, Matt Ruppel).
• Other AAs produced a single title (Mark Reiland) among their 4 AA finishes.
• Honorable Mention was honorable producing 2 titles (Matt Demaray) and 14 total AA finishes.
• The Nerds got a single 3rd place finish from Tom Miller.

In total only 20 wrestlers on the list every AA'd

• 8 of 11 Dream Team
• 1 of 11 Academic Team
• 3 of 20 Other AA
• 8 of 60 Honorable Mention

[jackwebster]

On 7/23/2024 at 3:41 PM, Snoqualmie18 said:

Kolat was on another level.

That pic on the ASICS AA poster conjured a sort of combat I had never imagined: what was that dude doing? A Boston Crab? I now recognize that it was a modified bow-n-aroiw arrow, but I the time it looked like a time of medieval torture. 

[fishbane]

20 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

That group of 102 wrestlers produced a total of 39 AA finishes with 6 titles.

• The Dream Team was the best with 20 AA's and 3 titles (Jeff Prescott x2, Matt Ruppel).
• Other AAs produced a single title (Mark Reiland) among their 4 AA finishes.
• Honorable Mention was honorable producing 2 titles (Matt Demaray) and 14 total AA finishes.
• The Nerds got a single 3rd place finish from Tom Miller.

In total only 20 wrestlers on the list every AA'd

• 8 of 11 Dream Team
• 1 of 11 Academic Team
• 3 of 20 Other AA
• 8 of 60 Honorable Mention

More national champions from the high school class of 1987 came fro wrestling not on that list than on it.  Angle and the Brandses combined for 7 national titles thats one more than the ASICS AA selections.  They also have 10 AA finishes.  It would be interesting to see if the # of AAs or national titles from a recruiting class coming from the top 100/50/20/10 recruits has changed over time. Essentially it would be a measure of whether the rankings have improved or gotten worse over time.

[Wrestleknownothing]

8 minutes ago, fishbane said:

More national champions from the high school class of 1987 came fro wrestling not on that list than on it.  Angle and the Brandses combined for 7 national titles thats one more than the ASICS AA selections.  They also have 10 AA finishes.  It would be interesting to see if the # of AAs or national titles from a recruiting class coming from the top 100/50/20/10 recruits has changed over time. Essentially it would be a measure of whether the rankings have improved or gotten worse over time.

I was thinking something similar, but it was a lot of work getting this one list extracted and joined with my data. I was curious, just not curious enough.

[MidniteToka]

On 7/21/2024 at 1:43 PM, Sublime607 said:

Not many in New York even thought Dake was going to become what he is today. Alex Ekstrom and Ian Paddock were the top two for his weight and age.

Mike Nevinger was also in that mix.  Section 5 was tough.

[Natty Boh Army]

Around 1991, give or take a year, one of my teammates competed at junior nationals. Upon his return, he regaled us with tales of what he saw and experienced, including the following excerpt (forgive me if I take any liberties here, but it has been 30+ years):

"This one guy from PA is an absolute freak... a monster... he just destroyed kids all weekend, and he wasn't even trying. His name is Cary Kolat. He was in Slutsky's weight class (Matt Slutsky, a recently-graduated 4-time state champ from our state who was recruited by Syracuse). Slutzy got beat so bad he was crying! He was turning Slutzy and it looked like he was going to rip his arm off his body! Half the kids he wrestled had to be carried off the mat!"

I remember him also talking about a dude named Ray Brinzer- another PA guy who apparently looked like a computer scientist and carried a gumby doll with him everywhere he went.

So yeah, the hype around Kolat was real. 

[scourge165]

On 7/11/2024 at 11:02 AM, PortaJohn said:

My top 3/4 are

1) as a kid it was Cary Kolat

2) While I was in high school Mocco 

3) As an older feller tie between Chance Marstellar and Aaron Pico

Yeah, they were all HUGE. Chris Phillips and that whole...HS Squad was pretty massive as well. 

You get three high AAs, two NCs, a 4X Champ and the top recruit decides he's done.

[Ashebuckeye]

On 7/23/2024 at 3:41 PM, Snoqualmie18 said:

In late 80s/early 90s, a couple of Cedar Falls (pre-Fargo) fame that were very well-known were Alan Fried, Scott Schlucter and TJ Jawrosky.  Closer to my neck of the woods, it was Ty Moore and Cary Kolat.  Kolat was on another level.  We in NJ had a guy named Pat Lynch who would typically place at Jr. Nationals.  He was one of the first of the ‘man-children’ – middle/upper weights who came in as freshman who could compete for state titles.  He had a great scholastic and freestyle/Greco career, but he is probably and unfortunately best known for not winning states as a senior after winning as a sophomore and junior largely untouched.  A real underrated wrestler from Lynch’s year was Steve Dalling.  2-time champ and 3-time finalist.  Don’t think he was nationally known - nothing flashy but solid in all positions.  Would have been a great college wrestler.        

Didn’t Pat Lynch AA wrestling for Georgia State?

[gimpeltf]

2 minutes ago, Ashebuckeye said:

Didn’t Pat Lynch AA wrestling for Georgia State?

After transferring from ASU

[Ashebuckeye]

Oscar Wood mentioned and I remember his brother Isaac being maybe more hyped. I could be misremembering but I thought Cody was more hyped than Cael. David Kjeilgaard and Scott Schatzman. Jim Johnson and Johnny McGee from Ohio. 
 

 

[11986]

I don't know if Mike DeAnna has been mentioned. 

from an SI article after the 1981 NCAA tournament

Lookalikes do alike - Sports Illustrated Vault | SI.com

 

Recruiters particularly liked the 83-0 record he racked up in his sophomore, junior and senior years in Bay Village, a Cleveland suburb. There was talk—probably too much talk—that De-Anna would be the first to win four NCAA titles.