We need a push out rule!!

[TexRef]

We have been dealing with people playing the line for DECADES! That is why Kurdelmeier made the monster mat. 

[peanut]

11 hours ago, Scouts Honor said:

I have yet to see the level of wrestling go up in free

Freestyle used to be horrible to watch. People playing the edge, ball grabs, lack of action, alleged corruption, etc.

But then the IOC voted to cut wrestling from the Olympics, which put UWW in survival mode. One of the results was a slate of rule changes that made freestyle fun to watch. IMO it's now better than folkstyle. Among the best of those rule changes -- again IMO -- is the step out rule.

[forkemaz]

7 minutes ago, peanut said:

Freestyle used to be horrible to watch. People playing the edge, ball grabs, lack of action, alleged corruption, etc.

But then the IOC voted to cut wrestling from the Olympics, which put UWW in survival mode. One of the results was a slate of rule changes that made freestyle fun to watch. IMO it's now better than folkstyle. Among the best of those rule changes -- again IMO -- is the step out rule.

Imagine saying a type of wrestling where one dudes entire objective is to stall on bottom is better than folkstyle. Freestyle is bottom of the barrel homie. It's more exciting than Greco-Roman but folkstyle and sumo destroy it in every possible category. It is a philosophical mess of a sport. It has no aim and is balanced around quick turns which makes for horrific scoring and overall a slop fest of a sport. You are welcome to like it but if you want to say it's better than folkstyle bring receipts and be prepared to realize no one watches free and its for a lot of reasons. 

[peanut]

8 minutes ago, forkemaz said:

Imagine saying a type of wrestling where one dudes entire objective is to stall on bottom is better than folkstyle. Freestyle is bottom of the barrel homie. It's more exciting than Greco-Roman but folkstyle and sumo destroy it in every possible category. It is a philosophical mess of a sport. It has no aim and is balanced around quick turns which makes for horrific scoring and overall a slop fest of a sport. You are welcome to like it but if you want to say it's better than folkstyle bring receipts and be prepared to realize no one watches free and its for a lot of reasons. 

There are professional freestyle leagues in Germany, India, and Iran. Meanwhile, there are no professional folkstyle leagues.

Edited March 25 by peanut

[de4856]

I think we need a step out, and or push out rule. I also think that we should adopt the shot clock rule like in Freestyle. 

[Scouts Honor]

9 hours ago, peanut said:

Freestyle used to be horrible to watch. People playing the edge, ball grabs, lack of action, alleged corruption, etc.

But then the IOC voted to cut wrestling from the Olympics, which put UWW in survival mode. One of the results was a slate of rule changes that made freestyle fun to watch. IMO it's now better than folkstyle. Among the best of those rule changes -- again IMO -- is the step out rule.

ball grabs had nothing to do with pushout.

I have always enjoyed freestyle. through all the rules changes.

tell me, what wrestling technique improved from the pushout?

the ability to walk a guy out of bounds when i have his ankle in my armpit? 

or the ability to drop to my knees and get pushed out? 

[Dark Energy]

It is simply that wrestlers don’t play the edge as much.  This less out of bounds with no scoring.   Simple.  
 

Guys - did you watch the finals?  So many playing the edge.  Was crazy bad.  Did our sport no favors.

[Scouts Honor]

i was told over and over again that this was the most exciting finals ever.

and i agree.

playing the edge is fun to watch.

 

[Dark Energy]

Who told you that?  Is my sarcasm meter broken?  

[Scouts Honor]

11 hours ago, de4856 said:

 I also think that we should adopt the shot clock rule like in Freestyle. 

to me this puts the refs in the match even more.

if there is no score... they decide who goes on the clock....

[ionel]

7 hours ago, Scouts Honor said:

to me this puts the refs in the match even more.

if there is no score... they decide who goes on the clock....

But won't it be fun to have brick throws & video review of: 

passivity, grounding, takedown within shot clock time, pushout ... etc

to add to current review options?  

 

 

Edited March 26 by ionel

[NormMacDonald]

eh.. Put a cage around the mat 

[Eagle26]

22 hours ago, forkemaz said:

Imagine saying a type of wrestling where one dudes entire objective is to stall on bottom is better than folkstyle. Freestyle is bottom of the barrel homie. It's more exciting than Greco-Roman but folkstyle and sumo destroy it in every possible category. It is a philosophical mess of a sport. It has no aim and is balanced around quick turns which makes for horrific scoring and overall a slop fest of a sport. You are welcome to like it but if you want to say it's better than folkstyle bring receipts and be prepared to realize no one watches free and its for a lot of reasons. 

Your lack of understanding of freestyle wrestling is very evident. First off, the example you used of stalling on bottom is about the worst example you could use. In freestyle on bottom, you actively defend turns for about a 10 second sprint. Even if one guy tries to stall, it’s only 10 seconds. I literally saw matches at NCAAs with one guy riding another guy with zero turns, escapes, anything for 4 minutes! Furthermore, “no one” watches freestyle in America because it’s simply a cultural thing. Many other countries a ton of people watch freestyle. Of the those that truly know and understand both styles, I find that the vast majority prefer freestyle 

[scourge165]

On 3/24/2024 at 8:43 AM, swoopdown said:

I'll swim upstream on this one.  Not a big fan of push out points.  Puts too much emphasis on low skill technique.  I prefer wrestler emphasis and points for real changes in control.  But I'll admit, if it would have been turned on conditionally (no TD in 1st period or automatically in OT), it might have improved a few matches. 

Nah, I agree. I hate it. It helps guys who are good hand fighters, but just block and push(which used to be a form of stalling). 

And the person who said the Fix match would be over sooner, I don't know, I think he's the exact type of Wrestler that benefits from it. 

They are two different styles. Call stalling more. Make it a point of emphasis, whatever. I don't want to see the pushout in College or any Folkstyle. 

[scourge165]

9 hours ago, Scouts Honor said:

to me this puts the refs in the match even more.

if there is no score... they decide who goes on the clock....

Oh...yeah, that's a TERRIBLE idea. 

 

[wrestlingshoe]

I wrestled for Simon Fraser University in their Hay Day when they had a number of world and Olympic medalist and won 2 NAIA titles in 5 years (they are division II now). For those of you who don't know, Simon Frasier is located in British Columbia, Canada and only wrestles freestyle. When they enter the college season they give collegiate wrestling a try.  One time I wrestled a club teammate at a college open who was not used to collegiate. After the match was over and I won by two stingy points, he walked up to our coach and said "he was stalling." Our coach replied, "it's college wrestling."

[Rassling]

On 3/24/2024 at 12:54 AM, Dark Energy said:

So much damn backing up to edge and playing the edge at NCAAs. Ridiculous.  Over and over and over again.  Ugly.  
 

Refs subjectivity and inconsistency on this point is not working.  Need more severe incentives to keep guys from doing this.  

I think we’ll start seeing the patented Arujae pointing to the center of the mat by even more wrestlers next season. Watch this become a thing as backing up gets worse. A tactic like this may also play a role in the mind of a ref when he has to decide who gets the next stall warning.

[RegularStalling]

On 3/24/2024 at 7:11 AM, Packard said:

125 for sure. Fig spent the entire match back pedaling. 
 

It’s hard for Ayala to even force action when he’s literally chasing the entire match. 

My take here - Davis, Noto, and Ayala all spent 2+ minutes on a knee throughout the early portion of their matches against Figs. They had little to no desire to create any type of offense, and it was clear their strategy was to bait Richie into an ill advised shot, which based on his tape, was probably a smart way to play it. What about that is any different from Figs playing the edge at the end of a match? It’s all the same thing, and I don’t know why everyone fails to see that. 

Edited March 27 by RegularStalling

[KennyEBHS]

IMO, for the pushout to work and keep folkstyle edge wrestling, it needs to be both feet out, not just on the line.

[pmilk]

Back in the 70's they had a rule that if you took two steps backwards, it was an automatic warning. It was a great rule until it just became pushing with no real attempt to attack. Stall calls in the first 10 seconds of a match...7:50 left to avoid getting called again. Consequently, it didn't last too long. So, if someone "steps out" of bounds, he gets penalized? I have watched enough wrestling in my lifetime where I truly cannot determine who went out of bounds first. So, that situation will be left to the ref to determine the guilty party or the silly brick gets thrown and we spend another 3-4 minutes watching video in slow motion several times to determine who went OB. Flow, momentum, stamina, among other things are now affected. Part of one's job is to expose an opponent who is avoiding "wrestling." To do that requires skill and tactical knowledge. The rules for stalling are already in place. Understanding the "stalling" rules either exposes the staller or disguises the staller. Smart wrestlers know how to do both. I really do not understand why being shrewd and clever to work the rules to your favor is so repulsive. What many of you are proposing is just moving more to freestyle. Why? 

[JuanMogen]

On 3/25/2024 at 9:44 PM, Eagle26 said:

Of the those that truly know and understand both styles, I find that the vast majority prefer freestyle 

That’s good evidence that folkstyle is better. The average wrestling fan is a moron. 

[MPhillips]

20 minutes ago, JuanMogen said:

That’s good evidence that folkstyle is better. The average wrestling fan is a moron. 

The post you quoted  was, "Of the those that truly know and understand both styles..."

 

 

 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

I've said before, probably on this very thread, that I am a fan of the stepout rule in freestyle, but probably not folkstyle.  

Folkstyle top/bottom is inherently different than freestyle par terre.  This would create odd situations and ways to game the system that I don't think a lot of people have considered.  It could potentially make things more confusing for refs and for fans. (two groups we don't want to get any more confused, and I am a member of both groups)

I would love to see edge wrestling penalized and basically eliminated.  I'm not sure if a stepout point is the best solution.

[JuanMogen]

5 hours ago, MPhillips said:

The post you quoted  was, "Of the those that truly know and understand both styles..."

 

 

 

Still