Did Dresser pay off Cornell?

[Elevator]

I am not a fan of the Cornell program, but I am fine with the decisions and Mike Grey's explanations. Mikstake to wrestle injured guys.  They are not professional athletes.

[Mike]

1 minute ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Except Foca... who needed a ranked win.  He was healthy.

Correct. They weren’t injured when it was going to be beneficial for them. Amazing how that works out. 

[scourge165]

10 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

The NBA commissioner has gone to great lengths over a number of years to resolve the load management issue with positive reinforcement [play-In tournament with with approximately a $40,000,000 prize pool for the players and coaches] and negative reinforcement [6 to seven figure escalating fines at the coach and team levels].

The prize pool is 40 million? Can I get some of that for actually watching a couple of those games with those ridiculous floors that made it difficult to focus on the games?

 

[VakAttack]

This is a testament to the battle going on constantly w/ athletes, coaches, etc and fans.  This is an entertainment product, but the coaches and athletes act like the ONLY thing that matters is the NCAA tournament; it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.  Since they all treat it that, it becomes true.  So what's the point of paying for and watching the other events?

[Dogbone]

I don't think Grey is lying directly just bending the truth to fit his narrative. 

Are guys ever 100% healthy, probably not.  Every coach can probably make this claim, and no one is going to come out and say, "yep, it was a tough matchup so we ducked".  They all finished their previous match without noticeable injuries, notice Grey isn't saying they couldn't have gone.    Unfortunately, Grey can say it is what is best for the athletes and it probably is (no punishment for ducking and no risk of injuries, real or not), BUT it is bad for the overall sport.

It is a bad trend.  If everyone keeps doing what is in their best interest, the sport will continue to suffer. The coaches might have too big a voice.

Football and Basketball have people above the coaches who make the ultimate decisions.  FB coaches would choose to only play minimal conference games and cupcake non con schedules, if they were allowed/rewarded.   

Most administrations/league offices don't have knowledge or care about wrestling so they just default to the coaches who should be experts, but they do what is in their best interest (natural) and are not actually good stewards for the sport (that isn't their jobs).

[Idaho]

"Injury" is the reasoning that is hard to argue against. It's easy to say, "they were injured" and not get a lot of pushback. From the fans perspective we just saw them wrestle and saw no signs of an injury whatsoever, from the time they went on the mat to watching them walk/jog off the mat. Yeah, I know, we dont' know what's going  on inside that knee or shoulder. So what actually is an "injury"? It used to mean, I literally can't wrestle... I can't walk properly...I can't lift my arm above my waist...etc.   What is an injury now? My hammy feels a little off. I have a little uncomfortable twinge in my elbow when I move it this direction. I'm only 95% instead of 100% ????  For the most part, we see these guys in the next dual. As a fan, that spends money on the product, this is the frustrating part... not knowing what is real and what is mostly fabricated to avoid a big match up where you are only 95%,  but having no recourse as a fan.  Seems like the words "It's an owie, you can go, tough it out" are hostile and offensive words nowdays. 

[1032004]

47 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

The NBA commissioner has gone to great lengths over a number of years to resolve the load management issue with positive reinforcement [play-In tournament with with approximately a $40,000,000 prize pool for the players and coaches] and negative reinforcement [6 to seven figure escalating fines at the coach and team levels].

They have fined coaches for resting players?

[bnwtwg]

3 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

They have fined coaches for resting players?

First offense is $250 and increases in $250 increments for each additional offense. Teams start at $500.

[ionel]

16 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

First offense is $250 and increases in $250 increments for each additional offense. Teams start at $500.

So that would be like if you or I were fined 1 penny for running a red light.  Yeah that'd change behavior.  

[bnwtwg]

9 minutes ago, ionel said:

So that would be like if you or I were fined 1 penny for running a red light.  Yeah that'd change behavior.  

Average head salary is $3.5. 250k/3.5m is approximately 7.14% so I would call that a wee bit more than a penny.

 

 

[1032004]

1 hour ago, VakAttack said:

This is a testament to the battle going on constantly w/ athletes, coaches, etc and fans.  This is an entertainment product, but the coaches and athletes act like the ONLY thing that matters is the NCAA tournament; it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.  Since they all treat it that, it becomes true.  So what's the point of paying for and watching the other events?

There was a similar conversation on twitter.   A point was brought up (that from a financial perspective, I agree with) that the only “fans” that matter are big donors.  Yea they’re usually fans too, but in most cases they’re paying for NCAA titles, not December dual victories.

I think the answer is having a team dual championship with 8 teams or so.  It only adds 3 matches, and gives more incentive to put out your best lineup to make sure you make that 8.  Of course how it would be determined would be another controversy.

[1032004]

34 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

First offense is $250 and increases in $250 increments for each additional offense. Teams start at $500.

Interesting, I see in your later post this is in thousands?

How do they determine if it fits this definition vs a legitimate injury?

[ionel]

9 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

Average head salary is $3.5. 250k/3.5m is approximately 7.14% so I would call that a wee bit more than a penny.

 

 

You said $250.

[bnwtwg]

15 minutes ago, ionel said:

You said $250.

I assumed common sense was common.

[TexRef]

1 hour ago, scourge165 said:

The prize pool is 40 million? Can I get some of that for actually watching a couple of those games with those ridiculous floors that made it difficult to focus on the games?

 

They used those crazy floor colors and those were the types of things they made fun of the ABA for doing. How the times have changed. 

[Red Blades]

1 hour ago, 1032004 said:

I think the answer is having a team dual championship with 8 teams or so.  It only adds 3 matches, and gives more incentive to put out your best lineup to make sure you make that 8.  Of course how it would be determined would be another controversy.

Uh... Correct me if I'm wrong - but didn't we try to set this up before?

[BigRedFan]

2 hours ago, Dogbone said:

They all finished their previous match without noticeable injuries, notice Grey isn't saying they couldn't have gone.   

You didn't watch Ramirez in the Pitt match, did you?  I stopped reading here, sorry.

[Hammerlock3]

I have to say between this and the shapiro concussion controversay the optics seem to imply that he been both bullish and cowardly at some point in recent weeks.

I don't mean that as an attack, it just seems from our angle that he can't have been very consistent. 

Edited December 19, 2023 by Hammerlock3

[1032004]

3 hours ago, Elevator said:

I am not a fan of the Cornell program, but I am fine with the decisions and Mike Grey's explanations. Mikstake to wrestle injured guys.  They are not professional athletes.

What do you make of his decision to let Shapiro finish the match against Chumbley?

[flyingcement]

35 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said:

I have to say between this and the shapiro concussion controversay the optics seem to imply that he been both bullish and cowardly at some point in recent weeks.

I don't mean that as an attack, it just seems from our angle that he can't have been very consistent. 

It's almost as if the most believable explanation is that some old sage character in Grey's life (maybe Koll) called him up after the concussion incident - tried to remind him to protect his athletes - and then Grey took the advice too strongly in the other direction.  At this point I'm imagining a full narrative in mind so that it can make sense

[Hammerlock3]

6 minutes ago, flyingcement said:

It's almost as if the most believable explanation is that some old sage character in Grey's life (maybe Koll) called him up after the concussion incident - tried to remind him to protect his athletes - and then Grey took the advice too strongly in the other direction.  At this point I'm imagining a full narrative in mind so that it can make sense

more likely some admin took him aside and reminded him that law suits make him or her want to fire people. 

[Gus]

1 hour ago, flyingcement said:

It's almost as if the most believable explanation is that some old sage character in Grey's life (maybe Koll) called him up after the concussion incident - tried to remind him to protect his athletes - and then Grey took the advice too strongly in the other direction.  At this point I'm imagining a full narrative in mind so that it can make sense

Only if you ignore the precedent that was set last year vs the Flo hyped Florida dual vs tOSU.

[1032004]

57 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said:

more likely some admin took him aside and reminded him that law suits make him or her want to fire people. 

Speculating of course but personally I don’t think anyone from Cornell said anything to him about Shapiro.  Or else I don’t think he wrestles at all yesterday.

 

[scourge165]

3 hours ago, flyingcement said:

It's almost as if the most believable explanation is that some old sage character in Grey's life (maybe Koll) called him up after the concussion incident - tried to remind him to protect his athletes - and then Grey took the advice too strongly in the other direction.  At this point I'm imagining a full narrative in mind so that it can make sense

It's always good to try and use a steal-man argument rather than just going with the crowd. 

That seems like a reach to me...but reasonable. Where it seems odd to me is they've done this two years in a row, correct?

[scourge165]

5 hours ago, TexRef said:

They used those crazy floor colors and those were the types of things they made fun of the ABA for doing. How the times have changed. 

And the Soccer style in-season tournament? Yeah, there's a lot of shit they're trying. Seems to be working. I know it's sacrilegious to like Basketball if you're a Wrestler(we must be at odds forever!) but I kinda liked it. It made the early season games a little more exciting.

But really...nix the floors. Too distracting.