Proposed college wrestling rule changes

[Formally140]

Wrestling community in a nutshell.

Proposal: Hey maybe we should do similar things to the organizations that have made their sports Uber successful and popular…

Wrestling people… “ahhhhh!!! Nooooo!! change is scary. Let’s keep doing same things and watch sport keep shrinking.. and just blame it on “da kids these days”

 

and um to the person saying without riding time people will just stall on bottom… no

[Caveira]

1 hour ago, Scouts Honor said:

I started thinking about the football passing rules... that did cause more scoring. and that is what was wanted... 

however, would like to see the data on increased viewership based on this scoring.. i may have to do some digging.

 

I think the increased availability of betting on games and parts of games has increased viewership more than any actual rules change however...

 

[Jim L]

11 minutes ago, Caveira said:

 

 Using more recent data shows a different story:

 

Edited April 21, 2023 by Jim L

[Jim L]

It took many years for college BBall to institute a shot clock. It was popular before and the change improved the game and increased has increased in popularity since.

[Scouts Honor]

50 minutes ago, Formally140 said:

Wrestling community in a nutshell.

Proposal: Hey maybe we should do similar things to the organizations that have made their sports Uber successful and popular…

Wrestling people… “ahhhhh!!! Nooooo!! change is scary. Let’s keep doing same things and watch sport keep shrinking.. and just blame it on “da kids these days”

 

and um to the person saying without riding time people will just stall on bottom… no

change for change's sake is bad. things like that get you the 'ball grab'

if you have numbers to back up your proposals fine. lets do it.

but we aren't seeing these numbers...

 

i mean is it really broke? the numbers went down for viewership one year... does that mean the sky is falling? 

Edited April 21, 2023 by Scouts Honor

[Scouts Honor]

44 minutes ago, Caveira said:

 

I was thinking more since 1978 when the 5 yard rule was instituted...i started prelim research... and was not very successful,, it's going to take more than a few hours

but i like the chart... wonder what caused the decline in 11 and 12 and 16, 17

Edited April 21, 2023 by Scouts Honor

[Scouts Honor]

even the entire bball tourney was down 7% from last year...

[Scouts Honor]

Demo	Audience	Rating
2023-Mar-18L: 2023 NCAA WRESTING CHAMPIONSHIP L: 2023 NCAA WRESTLING CHAMPIONSHIPS	HH	297,100	0.24
	P2+	454,000	0.15
	P18-49	104,000	0.08
	P25-54	158,000	0.13
2023-Mar-17L: 2023 NCAA WRESTING CHAMPIONSHIP L: 2023 NCAA WRESTLING CHAMPIONSHIPS	HH	235,200	0.19
	P2+	345,000	0.11
	P18-49	111,000	0.09
	P25-54	145,900	0.12
2023-Mar-16L: 2023 NCAA WRESTING CHAMPIONSHIP NCAA CHAMPIONSHIPS, SECOND ROUND	HH	186,000	0.15
	P2+	251,000	0.08
	P18-49	78,500	0.06

 

 

Edited April 21, 2023 by Scouts Honor

[ionel]

8 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

Demo	Audience	Rating
2023-Mar-18L: 2023 NCAA WRESTING CHAMPIONSHIP L: 2023 NCAA WRESTLING CHAMPIONSHIPS	HH	297,100	0.24
	P2+	454,000	0.15
	P18-49	104,000	0.08
	P25-54	158,000	0.13
2023-Mar-17L: 2023 NCAA WRESTING CHAMPIONSHIP L: 2023 NCAA WRESTLING CHAMPIONSHIPS	HH	235,200	0.19
	P2+	345,000	0.11
	P18-49	111,000	0.09
	P25-54	145,900	0.12
2023-Mar-16L: 2023 NCAA WRESTING CHAMPIONSHIP NCAA CHAMPIONSHIPS, SECOND ROUND	HH	186,000	0.15
	P2+	251,000	0.08
	P18-49	78,500	0.06

 

 

Good grief, you don't need cable to watch ESPN.  

[pokemonster]

Are people really having Super Bowl-esque watch parties for NCAA wrestling? Honestly, I gave up trying to watch it live due to how much of a pain in the ass it was. Ended up finding a YouTube channel that illegally posted the matches a couple of hours later. 

[Formally140]

45 minutes ago, Scouts Honor said:

change for change's sake is bad. things like that get you the 'ball grab'

if you have numbers to back up your proposals fine. lets do it.

but we aren't seeing these numbers...

 

i mean is it really broke? the numbers went down for viewership one year... does that mean the sky is falling? 

You’re being deliberately obtuse about the overall trends…

[Voice of the Quakers]

1 hour ago, Scouts Honor said:

Demo	Audience	Rating
2023-Mar-18L: 2023 NCAA WRESTING CHAMPIONSHIP L: 2023 NCAA WRESTLING CHAMPIONSHIPS	HH	297,100	0.24
	P2+	454,000	0.15
	P18-49	104,000	0.08
	P25-54	158,000	0.13
2023-Mar-17L: 2023 NCAA WRESTING CHAMPIONSHIP L: 2023 NCAA WRESTLING CHAMPIONSHIPS	HH	235,200	0.19
	P2+	345,000	0.11
	P18-49	111,000	0.09
	P25-54	145,900	0.12
2023-Mar-16L: 2023 NCAA WRESTING CHAMPIONSHIP NCAA CHAMPIONSHIPS, SECOND ROUND	HH	186,000	0.15
	P2+	251,000	0.08
	P18-49	78,500	0.06

 

 

I've been doing audience and consumer research for about 30 years.

Cord cutting is definitely a factor in Nielsen's viewing estimates, which both do and do not streaming content depending on the source and how we're calculating audience data. But, neither would account for this large of a year over year audience drop.

IMO, stars and stories mattered more.

Do not underestimate the lack of crossover stars in this year's tournament. Yianni D. is not Gable Steveson, and four titles may be really cool to we wrestlers but is not as unique as it was for either Dake or Cael.

Plus, don't underestimate the impact of other programming on this year's audience ratings. The first weekend of the NCAA Men's Basketball tournament was absolutely wild - ironic that all of those upsets led to lower ratings for the Final 4 and championship game given the lack of blue bloods at the end - or the impact of a generational talent (Caitlin Clark) playing in the women's tournament.

At the end of the day, casual fans had a lot of intriguing viewing options that weekend. Moving the tournament to April - I'm intrigued by the unique place the Frozen Four has between March Madness and the start of the NBA and NHL Playoffs - may be helpful for audience ratings.

As for me, I was at my son's district swimming championships and didn't watch a match either Day 2 or 3 of the tournament. Life gets in the way.

Dan McDonald (sometimes known as "Voice of the Quakers")
Vice President, Research, National Association of Broadcasters

Edited April 21, 2023 by Voice of the Quakers

[CHROMEBIRD]

2 hours ago, Caveira said:

 

Oh, television viewership has gone down since 2010, you say? What a surprise

[Offthemat]

I believe viewership would be increased if it wasn’t so dominated and segregated by pay per view.  If I pay for espn+ I can watch a few Big 12 matches, with commercials.  But there are a lot of BIG10, PAC12, ACC, matches that I can’t watch live, but some time later I may find a replay.  At the same time that a 1 vs 2 wrestling dual is on a pay per view that I can’t get, espnu is showing a division 2 women’s basketball game that has mostly a regional interest.  If you want more people to watch then make it easier for more people to watch, only to find that the premier matchup isn’t going to occur because one, or both, of the wrestlers don’t wrestle. 

[forkemaz]

2 hours ago, Caveira said:

 

That's because the rule changes sucked. People point to football but it's living off gamblers and fantasy football. People don't give a ***duck duck goose** about the games its all about their stupid fantasy team. This last super bowl was so boring it was unbelievable and the score was huge but there was literally no defense outside of one play. They neutered defense for the sake of stats and now their fan base is all based on weird commodity around their brand. 

[forkemaz]

2 hours ago, Scouts Honor said:

even the entire bball tourney was down 7% from last year...

They should add a 4 point shot that'll fix it

[ionel]

4 minutes ago, forkemaz said:

They should add a 4 point shot that'll fix it

backward two handed free throws worth 2pt each

[BerniePragle]

On 4/19/2023 at 7:02 PM, lu_alum said:

corrected previous post to state, "lost challenge"

I'd also love to see that.  I've told my wife many times that would cut down on many of these idiotic challenges.  I've also said the same thing for years on the swing appeal play in baseball.  If the batter merely flinches his hands, the catcher wants an appeal to the base ump.  If the base ump says no swing, I think it should be another ball added to the count.  That would cut down on that.  Keep the match/game moving!!!

[CHROMEBIRD]

6 minutes ago, forkemaz said:

They should add a 4 point shot that'll fix it

Aren't they experimenting with this in the G-League? It's actually not a bad idea, on top of adding more points to the scoreboard it alters floor spacing and creates new offensive opportunities of all types. Similarly, major rule changes in wrestling need to not only make the scores look better, but fundamentally improve the mechanics of the sport to create more action. 

It's a challenge for all sports though, our collective attention spans are growing shorter and we constantly expect games/matches to be a highlight reel of big moments, like it's a video game.

[mspart]

4 point shot would be from half court or something? 

As far as going to 3 point takedowns, I'm not sure I like that.  

The riding time change is good in my opinion. 

3 point near fall is also a good change.   I don't like the 4 point near fall. 

But I'm a codger and like the old ways.  

I'm still not sure how I feel about 2 point takedown for freestyle.   I also don't like unlimited ankle lace scoring.  But there you go. 

mspart

 

[billyhoyle]

10 hours ago, Scouts Honor said:

so... how is this different from a 2 pt takedown

 

It changes the relative value of takedown compared to an escape or reversal. 

[mspart]

True it does do that.   And I don't like the implications of that very much, but not really a fan of 3 point either.   Someone will eventually say an escape should be 2.   Then where are we?

mspart

 

 

[DJT]

3-point takedown and riding time change should eliminate 95% of the 2-2 and 3-3 overtime matches…. Not a bad thing.

I’d like to see stalling in referee’s position give the offended wrestler a point and option to go neutral (no additional escape point) or stay in current position. 

[gimpeltf]

23 minutes ago, DJT said:

3-point takedown and riding time change should eliminate 95% of the 2-2 and 3-3 overtime matches…. 

Which was the reason the rules committee gave for the change.

Edited April 22, 2023 by gimpeltf

[Mike Parrish]

So, what does the board think about Wade Schalles' 'a point scored is a point earned' philosophy?