Spencer Lee’s first interview since NCAAs

[bnwtwg]

Barstool Sports NIL athlete Spencer Lee will have has first interview since nationals released tomorrow evening.

For those unaware, Jersey Jerry is a total noob that found our sport over the past year and is legitimately trying to grow the sport. KB (Kyle Bauer) wrestled at Kent State. 

 

 

[1032004]

I welcome any new wrestling content, but I did think it was funny how they taped a few minutes of Rutgers practice and said “no one is doing this!”  I think Spey commented on the video and said “thank you for doing what no one is doing!” and I chuckled

[Jason Bryant]

I welcome any new wrestling content, but I did think it was funny how they taped a few minutes of Rutgers practice and said “no one is doing this!”  I think Spey commented on the video and said “thank you for doing what no one is doing!” and I chuckled

I mean, this is the stuff early Flo did when Martin was driving around in a van. I welcome more content … but if people think no one is doing this, they aren’t actually consuming much wrestling content.

[Pipewrench]

Jersey Jerry?  

[Jason Bryant]

3 hours ago, Pipewrench said:

Jersey Jerry?  

Now THAT's a callback. 

[RandolphTJones]

More publicity for the sport the better.

Don't care if Jerry became a wrestling fan 10 years or 10 days ago; the fact he was able to land Spencer Lee over anyone else says something about Barstool. Good for them if these "Barstool athletes" are getting paid. If not, who knows when we would have heard from Lee. 

[scourge165]

3 hours ago, RandolphTJones said:

More publicity for the sport the better.

Don't care if Jerry became a wrestling fan 10 years or 10 days ago; the fact he was able to land Spencer Lee over anyone else says something about Barstool. Good for them if these "Barstool athletes" are getting paid. If not, who knows when we would have heard from Lee. 

That's one thing about our Sport. Once people get interested...the tend to get hooked. 

[scourge165]

Overall, good interview. He didn't dodge, didn't make excuses...pretty much just says he did what was best for his future by not Wrestling back.

He got a little defensive...but Christ, he was THE story of the Tournament and so many people WERE kinda shitting on him.

I gained a lot of respect when he said he wasn't hurt, Ramos just beat him, cited how he scored earlier this year against him...how they should have focused on Ramos more, his family.

Didn't love to see his Mom on TV. Understandable.

Came off as likeable as always. The treatment was never fair. And the devastation of the loss had to just be next level.

 

Funny anecdote on Anthony Ferrari at the end. Not the hardest hitting interview, but I think people would have taken away whatever they wanted to whenever he did an interview, be it right away or later. The comment that stuck with me was Quint saying he's never seen a Wrestler as distraught after a loss. I can't imagine how gut wrenching that loss must have been. 

[uncle bernard]

32 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

Overall, good interview. He didn't dodge, didn't make excuses...pretty much just says he did what was best for his future by not Wrestling back.

He got a little defensive...but Christ, he was THE story of the Tournament and so many people WERE kinda shitting on him.

I gained a lot of respect when he said he wasn't hurt, Ramos just beat him, cited how he scored earlier this year against him...how they should have focused on Ramos more, his family.

Didn't love to see his Mom on TV. Understandable.

Came off as likeable as always. The treatment was never fair. And the devastation of the loss had to just be next level.

 

Funny anecdote on Anthony Ferrari at the end. Not the hardest hitting interview, but I think people would have taken away whatever they wanted to whenever he did an interview, be it right away or later. The comment that stuck with me was Quint saying he's never seen a Wrestler as distraught after a loss. I can't imagine how gut wrenching that loss must have been. 

His comments on his health were a great balance of candid and respectful to his opponents. He hated seeing people credit his loss to him being hurt instead of Ramos wrestling a great match. Pointed out he won on two torn ACL's and had already beaten Ramos before. He just got beat. Then he also admitted that he isn't healthy, he can't do everything he wants to do to be ready, and that is going to be the battle moving forward in his career. I think the freestyle schedule is going to be a lot easier for him to manage since he can't train like a normal 24 year old.

Also some very interesting, and not surprising comments, on the unprecedented pressure he's been under. When he *only* beats a top 10 guy by 8 points people freak out that something is wrong. No other wrestler in recent memory, or ever, has had to deal with that kind of scrutiny and it was clearly hard to deal with.

[goheels1812]

Really enjoyed how candid Spencer got with some parts of the interview and how he allowed himself to be vulnerable with KB and Jerry. I never realized the unfair standards Spencer had until he laid it out like that (especially when he mentioned Yianni almost losing a bunch of matches this year and not catching anywhere near as much flack as Spencer would catch for not pinning every opponent he faced). Hats off to him for a fantastic career, being a great ambassador of the sport, and cementing himself as an all time great. Looking forward to watching him work his way through the senior level next. 

[BAC]

I dunno, I kind of had mixed feelings about what I heard.

On the plus side, he went out of his way to throw kudos to Ramos.  Its in line with how he reacted when he lost to DeSanto in high school, and one of the reasons I've long been a fan.  He gives credit where it is due and respects his opponents, and seems sincere about it.  He also goes out of his way to praise his teammates, coaches and school -- all likable qualities.

But it was a bit tougher to hear his defensiveness and grievances.  Most I felt were misplaced and some a bit hypocritical. 

He went out of his way to criticize those who attribute his loss to Ramos to injury, but at the same time, he goes out of his way to say he was in fact injured -- not more so for that match, but injured generally.  You can't have it both ways.  If you're going to announce you were injured in a given match, you invite speculation as to whether you would have won absent the injury.  You can give credit to Ramos while still wondering if the injury played a role. 

He also acts as though everyone's against him for saying "there's something wrong with Spencer" anytime he doesn't get a pin or tech.  But these aren't really criticisms.  This is just what happens when everyone knows you're wrestling injured:  people speculate whether injury played a role if you falter.  And ironically, the ones speculating injury or offering it as an excuse usually aren't his critics, but his fans at Iowa, seeking to delegitimize his losses.

He never really explains the MFFs at NCAAs, but clearly the criticisms stung.  I feel for him.  That said, I just don't agree that he is the subject of some sort of double-standard.  To the contrary he is one of the most well-liked wrestlers of recent years.  Its just that the higher the pedestal people put you on, the more puzzled people are when you lose or aren't as dominant. 

Glad to hear he's planning to go to the U.S. Open and I hope he can be healthy enough to be competitive.

[dragit]

12 minutes ago, BAC said:

I dunno, I kind of had mixed feelings about what I heard.

On the plus side, he went out of his way to throw kudos to Ramos.  Its in line with how he reacted when he lost to DeSanto in high school, and one of the reasons I've long been a fan.  He gives credit where it is due and respects his opponents, and seems sincere about it.  He also goes out of his way to praise his teammates, coaches and school -- all likable qualities.

But it was a bit tougher to hear his defensiveness and grievances.  Most I felt were misplaced and some a bit hypocritical. 

He went out of his way to criticize those who attribute his loss to Ramos to injury, but at the same time, he goes out of his way to say he was in fact injured -- not more so for that match, but injured generally.  You can't have it both ways.  If you're going to announce you were injured in a given match, you invite speculation as to whether you would have won absent the injury.  You can give credit to Ramos while still wondering if the injury played a role. 

He also acts as though everyone's against him for saying "there's something wrong with Spencer" anytime he doesn't get a pin or tech.  But these aren't really criticisms.  This is just what happens when everyone knows you're wrestling injured:  people speculate whether injury played a role if you falter.  And ironically, the ones speculating injury or offering it as an excuse usually aren't his critics, but his fans at Iowa, seeking to delegitimize his losses.

He never really explains the MFFs at NCAAs, but clearly the criticisms stung.  I feel for him.  That said, I just don't agree that he is the subject of some sort of double-standard.  To the contrary he is one of the most well-liked wrestlers of recent years.  Its just that the higher the pedestal people put you on, the more puzzled people are when you lose or aren't as dominant. 

Glad to hear he's planning to go to the U.S. Open and I hope he can be healthy enough to be competitive.

I was probably more in your camp than the more complimentary takes.  He was truly and sincerely complimentary about Ramos and Glory and it was great that he clearly was trying to say that Ramos just beat him, don't chalk it up to anything else.

But it was a little confusing for him to say, no, I wasn't injured, health was no factor in my semifinal match, and then to also say that he has big health problems (which I don't think he ever specifically said were his knees, though implied), and to not offer an explanation for his not wrestling on Saturday.  If there is no injury, as asserted, then why MFF, a term that, by definition, essentially incorporates an injury?  He seemed to be saying that because of his general condition, he didn't want to risk further injury before the freestyle tournament this month, but his disinterest in the wrestlebacks and explaining his absence from them was pretty palpable, and at times even bled over into his somewhat sour take on college wrestling altogether.  

This is quite understandable.  He had an extraordinarily challenging career with unprecedented knee injuries and terrible luck with covid.  He's probably the most scrutinized college wrestler ever.  And now he has to be questioning whether his body gives him any chance of reaching his ultimate world goals.  

And it is true that, while I'm sure on our wonderful social media, he has seen a lot of unkind and unfair trashing, he on the whole has been given the extraordinary adulation that he deserved.  I don't think "defensive and grievances" is out of bounds as a description for a lot of his comments and tone.  Your points about why people would ask questions about him seem to me to be well founded and not a basis for his abject bewilderment.  

Heavy lies the crown, I guess.  In the end, I, like you, hope -- so much -- that we get to see the guy who blitzed the fields at 2018 NCAAs and 2019 U.S. Open have a real shot, with working appendages, at reaching his senior level goals.

[GreenandGold]

5 minutes ago, dragit said:

I was probably more in your camp than the more complimentary takes.  He was truly and sincerely complimentary about Ramos and Glory and it was great that he clearly was trying to say that Ramos just beat him, don't chalk it up to anything else.

But it was a little confusing for him to say, no, I wasn't injured, health was no factor in my semifinal match, and then to also say that he has big health problems (which I don't think he ever specifically said were his knees, though implied), and to not offer an explanation for his not wrestling on Saturday.  If there is no injury, as asserted, then why MFF, a term that, by definition, essentially incorporates an injury?  He seemed to be saying that because of his general condition, he didn't want to risk further injury before the freestyle tournament this month, but his disinterest in the wrestlebacks and explaining his absence from them was pretty palpable, and at times even bled over into his somewhat sour take on college wrestling altogether.  

This is quite understandable.  He had an extraordinarily challenging career with unprecedented knee injuries and terrible luck with covid.  He's probably the most scrutinized college wrestler ever.  And now he has to be questioning whether his body gives him any chance of reaching his ultimate world goals.  

And it is true that, while I'm sure on our wonderful social media, he has seen a lot of unkind and unfair trashing, he on the whole has been given the extraordinary adulation that he deserved.  I don't think "defensive and grievances" is out of bounds as a description for a lot of his comments and tone.  Your points about why people would ask questions about him seem to me to be well founded and not a basis for his abject bewilderment.  

Heavy lies the crown, I guess.  In the end, I, like you, hope -- so much -- that we get to see the guy who blitzed the fields at 2018 NCAAs and 2019 U.S. Open have a real shot, with working appendages, at reaching his senior level goals.

I find yours and BAC's post a bit hypocritical, a man can give credit to his opponent while separately stating the fact he was injured. He took credit that he was healthy to step on the mat so a loss, is a loss. Typing more words doesn't make a bias falicy true.

[AgaveMaria]

Wasn't really injured.

Credit to Ramos.

Then MFF's out of Two matches instead of wrestling to try and take 3rd?

And now almost 3 weeks to work on how to spin things?

As for Yianni, known for winning but not dominationg. Spencer known for diminating. Why whine about a double standard?

Sorry Spence, a C- at best on your backhand attempt at an excuse.

[dragit]

2 hours ago, GreenandGold said:

I find yours and BAC's post a bit hypocritical, a man can give credit to his opponent while separately stating the fact he was injured. He took credit that he was healthy to step on the mat so a loss, is a loss. Typing more words doesn't make a bias falicy true.

I don't know what a bias falicy (or a bias fallacy) is, never learned that in my pedestrian education.

I can say I've gone back and watched again and I definitely agree with your point that you can give credit to your opponent and separately state that you were injured, and that he did say that his health wasn't the reason he lost and that Ramos deserves all credit.  Good on him.

I don't know what your second sentence means -- not sure who you are saying took credit for what.  I think you're complimenting him for acknowledging that he was healthy enough to wrestle.  But after being healthy enough to wrestle the semis and not sustaining an injury in that match, he MFF'd even though he was healthy enough to wrestle.  That has been an issue that has driven some discussion on the boards, and his response to that in the interview was that the wrestlebacks "didn't matter."

My bias has always been extremely pro-Spencer Lee, as often expressed on the board, but in this case, I thought that the MFF wasn't handled well that weekend, and after three weeks I still thought his answers about the issue were a little meandering.  He's the biggest name in wrestling, he makes money off his endorsements, public interest in a prominent athlete's injuries and reasons for not competing comes with the territory.  No one "owes" anyone anything in this world that they're not legally obligated for.  But fans of a sport can be expected to have interest and want some specifics in situations like this, and to express opinions about that.

[1032004]

5 hours ago, dragit said:

I was probably more in your camp than the more complimentary takes.  He was truly and sincerely complimentary about Ramos and Glory and it was great that he clearly was trying to say that Ramos just beat him, don't chalk it up to anything else.

But it was a little confusing for him to say, no, I wasn't injured, health was no factor in my semifinal match, and then to also say that he has big health problems (which I don't think he ever specifically said were his knees, though implied), and to not offer an explanation for his not wrestling on Saturday.  If there is no injury, as asserted, then why MFF, a term that, by definition, essentially incorporates an injury?  He seemed to be saying that because of his general condition, he didn't want to risk further injury before the freestyle tournament this month, but his disinterest in the wrestlebacks and explaining his absence from them was pretty palpable, and at times even bled over into his somewhat sour take on college wrestling altogether.  

 

Does this imply he will be wrestling the US Open?

[Wrestleknownothing]

1 hour ago, 1032004 said:

Does this imply he will be wrestling the US Open?

He said he is working toward that, but left some doubt.

[Wrestleknownothing]

I disagree with the idea that what Spencer Lee said about getting beat by Matt Ramos and being hurt was in any way contradictory. He said he was hurt, but did not attribute the loss to being hurt. He credited Ramos rather than blamed the fact that he is hurt. Both those things can be true without being contradictory.

I found it interesting that he put the blame on the mental more than the physical. He said he was "conscious" during that match which made him sluggish. He said his best matches were when he was in the opposite mental state and came off the mat unaware of what just happened.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

6 hours ago, AgaveMaria said:

Wasn't really injured.

Credit to Ramos.

Then MFF's out of Two matches instead of wrestling to try and take 3rd?

And now almost 3 weeks to work on how to spin things?

As for Yianni, known for winning but not dominationg. Spencer known for diminating. Why whine about a double standard?

Sorry Spence, a C- at best on your backhand attempt at an excuse.

Thanks.  We appreciate your take, Thomas.

[BAC]

8 hours ago, GreenandGold said:

I find yours and BAC's post a bit hypocritical, a man can give credit to his opponent while separately stating the fact he was injured.

Yes of course he can, but he didn't stop there.  The issue is in the 5-10 minutes of the interview Spencer spent berating those who point to or inquire about his injury, as though it is some sort of massive personal attack on him and double-standard.  That's the part that struck me as weird.  The truth is that those hypothesizing injury after the Ramos loss or less-than-dominant wins weren't critics, they were a mix of Iowa apologists making excuses and regular wrestling fans who were just trying to explain what they'd seen.  So why so defensive?  The critics would be the ones who say "Aw Spencer's not hurt, he just lost because he sucks" (which would be a pretty rare comment), not the ones saying hey, Spencer only got a major, maybe he's still recovering or getting his lungs back or whatever.

I dunno.  Part of me thinks its just that Spencer's a guy who feeds on negativity to make himself better.  I'm not sure how healthy that is, but he's said in other interviews that he's highly self-critical and beats himself up, which is part of what pushes him to excel.  Maybe the same is true of comments from others -- i.e. even innocuous comments are recast as criticism to feed his World vs Spencer mindset that motivates him.   Far be it for me to question what works for him, but I worry about the long-term effect of that motivational strategy.  I sensed a touch of jealousy when he spoke of Jesuroga's HEW-induced ditching of wrestling to go join the Navy at the end of the interview.

Edited April 7, 2023 by BAC

[Gus]

He was basically saying that he was no more injured than he has been all year. The loss to Ramos was not attributed to some unknown or unforeseen injury that occurred between B10's and nationals. He has been wrestling injured all year (most of his career really) and has not even been able to run or condition due to the short recovery time from a double ACL surgery. The risk/reward analysis for him to wrestle back to 3rd place put more risk on his body than potential reward. Notice him saying that he has not wrestled yet since the NCAA's but would like to wrestle at the US Open. If we see him at the Open, its likely that we see him with no real training whatsoever.

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

Did he explain why he was too injured to wrestle again after losing to Ramos?

[scourge165]

11 minutes ago, Gus said:

He was basically saying that he was no more injured than he has been all year. The loss to Ramos was not attributed to some unknown or unforeseen injury that occurred between B10's and nationals. He has been wrestling injured all year (most of his career really) and has not even been able to run or condition due to the short recovery time from a double ACL surgery. The risk/reward analysis for him to wrestle back to 3rd place put more risk on his body than potential reward. Notice him saying that he has not wrestled yet since the NCAA's but would like to wrestle at the US Open. If we see him at the Open, its likely that we see him with no real training whatsoever.

Yes...this is exactly what I took away from it.

Basically he's not completely healthy, but he hadn't been all year and he wasn't any more injured for that mat-was the inference I got from him.

He MFF'ed out because his future was his priority...again, inferring he's not 100%, but doesn't want to use that as a crutch.

If he came out and said, "I've been rehabbing two torn ACLs this year and I wasn't in a good place physically," then he'd have gotten trashed even more. So he touched on it while emphasizing that he Ramos deserves the credit for beating him. I don't see the contradictions, just a little context.

I'm not sure what people really expected or wanted from this, but he seemed honest and genuine.
 

[scourge165]

12 minutes ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Did he explain why he was too injured to wrestle again after losing to Ramos?

He and his coaches made the decision it was the the best thing for his future. 

That's as much as it seems like he'll explain it.

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

15 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

He and his coaches made the decision it was the the best thing for his future. 

That's as much as it seems like he'll explain it.

So it wasn't necessarily that he was too injured to continue...