Mesenbrink transfer

[scourge165]

59 minutes ago, MizzouFan01 said:

Didn’t Askren say in FRL that Davis only offered 40% scholly and he was looking for a full ride. Believe he stated that only being offered that proved Wisconsin didn’t believe in him so that to him was a slap in the face. He did say that another school along with Mizzou was all in on him. But Brian Smith won him over saying he wouldn’t constrain Ben and let him wrestle his way instead of trying to make him conform. 

I would be surprised if Wisc offered 40%. 

That's a pretty big scholarship and...really quite rare. If Wisconsin offered 40%, they believed in him a lot more than the stories from the Askren camp would suggest. Plus, as I heard it, Barry was pretty gunshy about...again, Wisconsin Wrestlers. The few truly elite Wrestlers from the state did little at UW. There was a guy Erick Swick who was an absolute beast(beat Sanderson the summer each was heading into their Fresh year). Won numerous NCs, International accomplishments, Dennis Hall, another Espoir World Champ, World Champ at the Sr level, Olympic Silver, there were others, but he'd been burned. Jesse Thielke and Destin McCauley(those were after, but still). 

Anyway, 100% scholarships are...pretty rare. You get 9.9. I don't know, but I thought it was quite a bit lower...and as I said, I don't believe they DID believe in him. I think he's correct on that front. But again...who he was a HS Wrestler and what he became...that's a WIIIDE chasm. Not sure there were a lot of Colleges who were going to give big money to Ben...

Hell, Wisconsin is probably a powerhouse right now if they do. Keegan O'Toole, Keckhiesen, Messenbrink are likely in the lineup with Hopke, Sinclair, Mirasola and a few others on the way...plus guys I'm forgetting. Greyson Clark, Millard, they've got a lot of kids who are excelling at the next level all the sudden...and almost all of them are doing it OUTSIDE the land of 15,000 lakes(10,000 doesn't sound so impressive now, does it Minnesota).

 

Edited February 2, 2023 by scourge165

[MizzouFan01]

31 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

I would be surprised if Wisc offered 40%. 

That's a pretty big scholarship and...really quite rare. If Wisconsin offered 40%, they believed in him a lot more than the stories from the Askren camp would suggest. Plus, as I heard it, Barry was pretty gunshy about...again, Wisconsin Wrestlers. The few truly elite Wrestlers from the state did little at UW. There was a guy Erick Swick who was an absolute beast(beat Sanderson the summer each was heading into their Fresh year). Won numerous NCs, International accomplishments, Dennis Hall, another Espoir World Champ, World Champ at the Sr level, Olympic Silver, there were others, but he'd been burned. Jesse Thielke and Destin McCauley(those were after, but still). 

Anyway, 100% scholarships are...pretty rare. You get 9.9. I don't know, but I thought it was quite a bit lower...and as I said, I don't believe they DID believe in him. I think he's correct on that front. But again...who he was a HS Wrestler and what he became...that's a WIIIDE chasm. Not sure there were a lot of Colleges who were going to give big money to Ben...

Hell, Wisconsin is probably a powerhouse right now if they do. Keegan O'Toole, Keckhiesen, Messenbrink are likely in the lineup with Hopke, Sinclair, Mirasola and a few others on the way...plus guys I'm forgetting. Greyson Clark, Millard, they've got a lot of kids who are excelling at the next level all the sudden...and almost all of them are doing it OUTSIDE the land of 15,000 lakes(10,000 doesn't sound so impressive now, does it Minnesota).

 

You might be correct about the amount. I could’ve heard wrong, wouldn’t be the first time lol. Whatever the reason was, he ended up at Mizzou and I couldn’t be happier. As far as the AWA kids not going to Wiscy, I have no clue. Could be Ben swaying them, but I don’t know that for sure. Both Askrens and Josh Wagnor all AWA coaches, attended and wrestled at Mizzou. We’ve had ties to Wisconsin for a long time, not just the recent AWA flood. To be honest, Mizzou, Northern Iowa and Minnesota seem to get the AWA kids. Hopefully we get Mitch, he would be a great addition. Just not sure why we weren’t all in on him during the initial recruiting process. 

[Gus]

46 minutes ago, scourge165 said:

I would be surprised if Wisc offered 40%. 

That's a pretty big scholarship and...really quite rare. If Wisconsin offered 40%, they believed in him a lot more than the stories from the Askren camp would suggest. Plus, as I heard it, Barry was pretty gunshy about...again, Wisconsin Wrestlers. The few truly elite Wrestlers from the state did little at UW. There was a guy Erick Swick who was an absolute beast(beat Sanderson the summer each was heading into their Fresh year). Won numerous NCs, International accomplishments, Dennis Hall, another Espoir World Champ, World Champ at the Sr level, Olympic Silver, there were others, but he'd been burned. Jesse Thielke and Destin McCauley(those were after, but still). 

Anyway, 100% scholarships are...pretty rare. You get 9.9. I don't know, but I thought it was quite a bit lower...and as I said, I don't believe they DID believe in him. I think he's correct on that front. But again...who he was a HS Wrestler and what he became...that's a WIIIDE chasm. Not sure there were a lot of Colleges who were going to give big money to Ben...

Hell, Wisconsin is probably a powerhouse right now if they do. Keegan O'Toole, Keckhiesen, Messenbrink are likely in the lineup with Hopke, Sinclair, Mirasola and a few others on the way...plus guys I'm forgetting. Greyson Clark, Millard, they've got a lot of kids who are excelling at the next level all the sudden...and almost all of them are doing it OUTSIDE the land of 15,000 lakes(10,000 doesn't sound so impressive now, does it Minnesota).

 

Destin McCauley was a SD youth wrestler that moved to Apple Valley, MN for middle and high school. He was at Nebraska for a brief stint before settling in at Nebraska Kearney (D2). Ended up being a 2x finalist and 1 time champ. 

[scourge165]

5 hours ago, MizzouFan01 said:

You might be correct about the amount. I could’ve heard wrong, wouldn’t be the first time lol. Whatever the reason was, he ended up at Mizzou and I couldn’t be happier. As far as the AWA kids not going to Wiscy, I have no clue. Could be Ben swaying them, but I don’t know that for sure. Both Askrens and Josh Wagnor all AWA coaches, attended and wrestled at Mizzou. We’ve had ties to Wisconsin for a long time, not just the recent AWA flood. To be honest, Mizzou, Northern Iowa and Minnesota seem to get the AWA kids. Hopefully we get Mitch, he would be a great addition. Just not sure why we weren’t all in on him during the initial recruiting process. 

Edit-Woah...went on a rant that. If this is TLTR, I hope Messenbrink shocks everyone and Wrestles between Hamiti and Gomez, but if he goes to Mizzou, he's the type of guy I believe will be a multi-time NC and have success at the next level. He reminds me of a Lincoln Mcllravy...not quite as physically gifted, but maybe with more of Brands mentality on the mat. Off the mat, apparently he's a super easy going kid, but again, he's EXTREMELY competitive...and you're going to lose some team points with him, but I suspect it'll be worth it.

In fact, I REALLY hope he doesn't go to Mizzou as he's the type of kid to go up to 165 to try and stop O'Toole from winning 4(even if it's a Covid 4, it could be 4). Just that type of kid. So singularly focused.

--------------

Oh, it's definitely Askren in their ear. He's VERY openly and publicly critical of Wisconsin and starts when they're young.

He did the same shit with Barry as Bono. It's just Ego. He wanted the job at Wisconsin, didn't get it and now he's feuding over the pettiest shit.

And of course Mizzou is a big beneficiary of this. Not sure about Minnesota. Northern Iowa got a Gem. 

Max, the Wagners, Messenbrink...AWA is mostly run by good, humble guys. Messenbrink...I genuinely believe if he took over as the HC at a B1G school, he'd make them competitive. I think most of the credit should go to him. Askren lends his name to it, but he's the backbone from what I can tell. And then you have Max running one club(Max is so different than Ben it's hilarious). Josh Wagner...the other Wagner(not sure why I can't remember his name). Nick Pell, another Mizzou guy.

 

As for Ben pushing kids away from UW, I don't like it...I have a "problem" with it in that it bothers me, but...he's under no obligation to tell advocate for the In-state program. Even setting aside the fact that he's obviously going to try and push kids toward Mizzou because...that's HIS school. That's HIS coach, he takes it so many steps further than that. 

But honestly, just opening AWA and having those sites has been great for the State. Wisconsin was always a mediocre state because there weren't enough College Wrestlers coming back and coaching. Now you have Pinnacle(Koy Hopke's gym), AWA with a slew of studs and the Crass Brothers. That's about 9 clubs with really good coaches.

That's what's taken Wisconsin from a State that occasionally produced a couple studs to a school that is churning out one after the other. 

 

They also have a problem with their admissions. One certain former 3X Champ couldn't get into Wisconsin and ended up Wrestling for Okie St...and he did not have bad grades. It was like a 25 ACT and a GPA around 3.0. But even in Football, Wisconsin has been VERY stringent with their standards. They've raised the number of "appeals" to the Football team gets to 8, but they've still lost a lot of very good recruits in Football as well because of their standards. And don't get me wrong, very proud of Wisconsin and my Degree and all that, but...we're not MIT. Yet only it's Wisc and Stanford with the highest admission standards FOR ATHLETES among FBS schools. 

 

With all the money they're putting into a new athletic facility, the NIL group they've got, the Luke Fickell hiring...you'd think they'd HAVE to east up here and get a bit more...lets say "reasonable."

Edited February 2, 2023 by scourge165

[scourge165]

5 hours ago, Gus said:

Destin McCauley was a SD youth wrestler that moved to Apple Valley, MN for middle and high school. He was at Nebraska for a brief stint before settling in at Nebraska Kearney (D2). Ended up being a 2x finalist and 1 time champ. 

Yeah, McCauley started at Wisconsin and he was part of the #1 rated class they had back...I shouldn't have included him, I was just thinking about the recruits they'd have for a while and SO many elite recruits just didn't pan out.

Beau Breske was another. He went the other way, from Nebraska to Wisconsin.

Another kid who had NC type potential...but I think these kids get burned out.

[RYou]

8 hours ago, scourge165 said:

I would be surprised if Wisc offered 40%. 

Anyway, 100% scholarships are...pretty rare. You get 9.9. I don't know, but I thought it was quite a bit lower...

 

It's becoming less rare with scholis supported with NIL cash.  While commonplace in FB and BB, wrestling NIL cash of substance is still pretty rare.  Some schools have targeted wrestling for cash awards. PSU /  RBY comes to mind.  Walked onto a boatload to cover the cost of his grad classes and then some.  I don't think he needed any scholi money from Sanderson to come back this year.

[Idaho]

1 hour ago, RYou said:

It's becoming less rare with scholis supported with NIL cash.  While commonplace in FB and BB, wrestling NIL cash of substance is still pretty rare.  Some schools have targeted wrestling for cash awards. PSU /  RBY comes to mind.  Walked onto a boatload to cover the cost of his grad classes and then some.  I don't think he needed any scholi money from Sanderson to come back this year.

Full-ride scholarships are not becoming less rare...NIL money is making up the difference so they can give less of a scholarship but cover the cost of full tuition. That's different than a full-ride "scholarship" 

[Gus]

3 hours ago, scourge165 said:

Yeah, McCauley started at Wisconsin and he was part of the #1 rated class they had back...I shouldn't have included him, I was just thinking about the recruits they'd have for a while and SO many elite recruits just didn't pan out.

Beau Breske was another. He went the other way, from Nebraska to Wisconsin.

Another kid who had NC type potential...but I think these kids get burned out.

I'm sure burnout was real for McCauley. He was traveling for national wrestling tournaments regularly and practicing year round from the time he was 6-7 years old.

[scourge165]

24 minutes ago, Gus said:

I'm sure burnout was real for McCauley. He was traveling for national wrestling tournaments regularly and practicing year round from the time he was 6-7 years old.

I remember talking to Jackson and I asked him, "how the hell does a kid like McCauley lose?" And his answer was...rough. This was a Soph who lost a match vs a stud.

You gotta know when to pull back. 

Again, had a cousin who was a 4X and top 5 P4P recruit(kinda made it so winning 1 or 2 was no big deal in our family...little prick) but he took off most of 6th grade. Went to state, lost to a good Wrestler...spent the next two summers begging to go to camps. He went to camps for 10 weeks each summer, came in as a Freshmen a different Wrestler, won Fargo.

Now...this may sound like bragging...which would be weird, because it wasn't me, but it comes off that way. But he was ALLOWED to take that year off when it got boring. And then his Dad was...lucky and in a position to send him to the JR Robinson 28 day camp(I went to that one, but that's where I checked out)...and then just all these different camps. Out to Navy to a camp, wherever. 

 

But McCauley was just...push-push-push. No time off.  I had a HS coach who made a good point. He said a lot of kids who go year round, they're never really peaking. They're maintaining and then when they get to College, they were so much better, they start to lose and people start to talk about them(when they're a big deal, I was lucky enough nobody talked about me). So it's relatively common for a McCauley type to take time off, move down and have success there where it's more fun. 

 

Drawing a blank, but the best kid I'd seen from Minnesota who went to UM...IIRC was like 17-0 and then transferred to Augsburg and won 4 Titles, undefeated AND he played QB and set some records. 

 

WE get caught up in "will Levi Haines contend as a Freshmen," and it's because he's that good. But we should probably have more patience or understanding for the Chris Phillips types. Sometimes kids get to the top of that mountain and they don't want to start to climb the next one. 

 

 

(All of this to say, I agree and could have left it there). 

[scourge165]

2 hours ago, RYou said:

It's becoming less rare with scholis supported with NIL cash.  While commonplace in FB and BB, wrestling NIL cash of substance is still pretty rare.  Some schools have targeted wrestling for cash awards. PSU /  RBY comes to mind.  Walked onto a boatload to cover the cost of his grad classes and then some.  I don't think he needed any scholi money from Sanderson to come back this year.

Well...that's a whole other things. Gable used to have his stars who were eating up big chunks of scholarships work camps...and they were paid very well(and VERY legally). So for instance, Mcllravy and Ironside weren't on Scholarship the last two years so they could recruit...whoever was next. Can't speak to other individuals as those were the two I heard about....and Gable was before my time, but that's basically the same thing.

JR went to Minnesota and did the same thing. When you're that successful, your camps are in demand and you generate a LOT of revenue. That revenue should go to guys who are NCs and bring the kids in, right?

 

I don't like Iowa, I just want to be clear, I'm not accusing them of cheating. It was explicitly legal(though...apparently a lot of coaches disagreed...including ONE of mine). 

[Ivan Stankowski]

11 hours ago, scourge165 said:

I would be surprised if Wisc offered 40%. 

That's a pretty big scholarship and...really quite rare. If Wisconsin offered 40%, they believed in him a lot more than the stories from the Askren camp would suggest. Plus, as I heard it, Barry was pretty gunshy about...again, Wisconsin Wrestlers. The few truly elite Wrestlers from the state did little at UW. There was a guy Erick Swick who was an absolute beast(beat Sanderson the summer each was heading into their Fresh year). Won numerous NCs, International accomplishments, Dennis Hall, another Espoir World Champ, World Champ at the Sr level, Olympic Silver, there were others, but he'd been burned. Jesse Thielke and Destin McCauley(those were after, but still). 

Anyway, 100% scholarships are...pretty rare. You get 9.9. I don't know, but I thought it was quite a bit lower...and as I said, I don't believe they DID believe in him. I think he's correct on that front. But again...who he was a HS Wrestler and what he became...that's a WIIIDE chasm. Not sure there were a lot of Colleges who were going to give big money to Ben...

Hell, Wisconsin is probably a powerhouse right now if they do. Keegan O'Toole, Keckhiesen, Messenbrink are likely in the lineup with Hopke, Sinclair, Mirasola and a few others on the way...plus guys I'm forgetting. Greyson Clark, Millard, they've got a lot of kids who are excelling at the next level all the sudden...and almost all of them are doing it OUTSIDE the land of 15,000 lakes(10,000 doesn't sound so impressive now, does it Minnesota).

 

Agreed Barry typically did not offer much to in state wrestlers and Don't forget Buchanan Oklahoma via Wyoming. We hear a lot about AWA not going to Wisconsin but not much about Crass trained not going to Wisconsin, interesting 

 

 

[MNRodent]

1 hour ago, scourge165 said:

 

Drawing a blank, but the best kid I'd seen from Minnesota who went to UM...IIRC was like 17-0 and then transferred to Augsburg and won 4 Titles, undefeated AND he played QB and set some records. 

 

Marcus LeVesseur, out of Minneapolis Roosevelt and Bloomington Kennedy, is who you are thinking of.  After his RS Fr year he would have one year of overlap of eligibility with one of two national champs, either Jared Lawrence or Luke Becker, if he moved up.

 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

30 minutes ago, MNRodent said:

Marcus LeVesseur, out of Minneapolis Roosevelt and Bloomington Kennedy, is who you are thinking of.  After his RS Fr year he would have one year of overlap of eligibility with one of two national champs, either Jared Lawrence or Luke Becker, if he moved up.

 

...and smoked Ben Askren in high school.

[nhs67]

Holy crap guys.

Can we please keep the posts to under 49.5 words?

Asking for a friend.

One who don't read words good.

[MPhillips]

15 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Holy crap guys.

Can we please keep the posts to under 49.5 words?

Folks love to explain things...

[ionel]

19 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Holy crap guys.

Can we please keep the posts to under 49.5 words?

Asking for a friend.

One who don't read words good.

... but you are ok with Wkn throwing 10,000 data points at us.  

[flyingcement]

18 minutes ago, ionel said:

... but you are ok with Wkn throwing 10,000 data points at us.  

I'm about to post a table with nearly two thousands rows in the other thread :)

[scourge165]

8 hours ago, Ivan Stankowski said:

Agreed Barry typically did not offer much to in state wrestlers and Don't forget Buchanan Oklahoma via Wyoming. We hear a lot about AWA not going to Wisconsin but not much about Crass trained not going to Wisconsin, interesting 

 

 

I mean, it's a lot just in general. You have just under 10 to give at a time. Using one full scholarship up on one Wrestler, it's just not super common. You'll do that for one of the top P4P Wrestlers in the Country, but generally, you're not going to do it for other kids. 

There are VERY few guys on full rides and you seldom give a bunch out in a single year. OSU did it last year...I believe they were at ~5.5 and then went all in on this class, but that's a pretty good bet. I don't remember where Askren ranked that year, but he'd just been majored in the State Quarterfinals(and yes, he was injured, but the kid that beat him also pounded the hell outta him on the mat and it was a bad look). He might have been top ~40-50?

 

Crass has produced a lot of good kids from up in that Northern Part of the State, but who's Wisconsin missed out on that they should have gone after? Was Scholes a Crass kid? Not arguing, just...genuinely don't know. Pinnacle has a Minnesota pipeline and UW need to crack through there. At least Hopke. That kid is just different. #1 2024 Wrestler...IMO. 

[scourge165]

49 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Holy crap guys.

Can we please keep the posts to under 49.5 words?

Asking for a friend.

One who don't read words good.

No.

[scourge165]

7 hours ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

...and smoked Ben Askren in high school.

How the hell did I forget that name? I could picture him...I knew exactly who he was, but I couldn't cough it up. 

8 hours ago, MNRodent said:

Marcus LeVesseur, out of Minneapolis Roosevelt and Bloomington Kennedy, is who you are thinking of.  After his RS Fr year he would have one year of overlap of eligibility with one of two national champs, either Jared Lawrence or Luke Becker, if he moved up.

I think they make room for him on that team. '65 was a weak spot. I think Becker was big enough to Wrestle it...especially if they're bringing back a kid who's running through College kids as a Redshirt. Becker could have beaten Heskett. Probably not going up, but it's well within the realm of possibility. I mean...Snyder was two coins flips away from being a 2X champ(very good move getting rid of that nonsense).

 

Anyway, I don't think that's why he left. The way I heard it, he just didn't want to go through the grind of D1 AND...he really wanted to play QB...though I was certainly never "in the know" with him and that was 3rd person and you know how that goes.

LeVesseur DID break some records playing QB. Being able to play both vs just burned out and getting back into the year 'round grind? I can't fault anyone for that. And he was still 159-0 and a 4X Champ.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

9 hours ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

...and smoked Ben Askren in high school.

13-4

[Husker_Du]

someone told me (and i never followed up to confirm)

but that at the end of Barry Davis' tenure he only gave full rides or none. 

i'm just telling ya what i was told. 

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

https://twitter.com/MatScouts1/status/1646967856154791957?s=20

[nhs67]

 

[Le duke]

Going to be some high ranking kids transferring out soon, I think.

If Carter doesn't take an OLY, or if Haines goes up and doesn't take his RS, I fear that Facundo will either have to take one, ride the pine or transfer.

Edited April 15, 2023 by Le duke