Ranking Top 3 at 184

[Wrestleknownothing]

23 minutes ago, boconnell said:

This is dumb.  Tons of guys get taken down while wrestling on a knee.  

What is dumb is using a thread about this year's 184 field to whine about last year. 

[alex1fly]

36 minutes ago, boconnell said:

This is dumb.  Tons of guys get taken down while wrestling on a knee.  

How do you take down an opponent on one knee? Legit question. Seems hard to do honestly 

[bnwtwg]

1 hour ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

What is dumb is using a thread about this year's 184 field to whine about last year. 

I promise I'm not trying to come across petty whatsoever but seeing you drag yourself down to homer status like the rest of us gave me a chuckle. It may not happen often but it is appreciated that at the end of the day we are all fans, even the calm and cool data scientists among us.

[boconnell]

1 hour ago, alex1fly said:

How do you take down an opponent on one knee? Legit question. Seems hard to do honestly 

It happens all the time.  Tons of guys go to a knee and get beat.  If it was an unsolvable defensive strategy we'd see far more of it.  Most wrestlers spend a match trying to put a guy down on his knees.  Go behinds and front headlocks are probably the most common takedowns in college wrestling.  The only thing dropping to a knee does is make it hard for the other guy to attack from space.  Once they engage the guy on his knee is doing everything he can to get off his knee because it's a disadvantage.  

[happyvalet]

6 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Can't take someone down who won't get up. 

6 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

(again) Can't take someone down who won't get up. 

6 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

The offemse that was so bad it scared someone into wrestling from his knees out of bounds. 

1 hour ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

What is dumb is using a thread about this year's 184 field to whine about last year. 

Glad you're going to stop whining then 

[MPhillips]

13 hours ago, boconnell said:

it's a weird thing to get worked up about in a sport with far worse examples of stalling.   

[Wrestleknownothing]

6 hours ago, bnwtwg said:

I promise I'm not trying to come across petty whatsoever but seeing you drag yourself down to homer status like the rest of us gave me a chuckle. It may not happen often but it is appreciated that at the end of the day we are all fans, even the calm and cool data scientists among us.

And another thing.....

[Wrestleknownothing]

6 hours ago, boconnell said:

It happens all the time.  Tons of guys go to a knee and get beat.  If it was an unsolvable defensive strategy we'd see far more of it.  Most wrestlers spend a match trying to put a guy down on his knees.  Go behinds and front headlocks are probably the most common takedowns in college wrestling.  The only thing dropping to a knee does is make it hard for the other guy to attack from space.  Once they engage the guy on his knee is doing everything he can to get off his knee because it's a disadvantage.  

To be clear, I was using hyperbole in response to hyperbole. 

[OH-Wolverine]

On 10/18/2025 at 1:14 PM, nhs67 said:

Zach Ryder and Brock Mantanona will have a thing or two to say about it.

Brock just seems extremely undersized compared to them all. He’s very very good, I just think 184 is asking a lot for him.

[nhs67]

10 hours ago, OH-Wolverine said:

Brock just seems extremely undersized compared to them all. He’s very very good, I just think 184 is asking a lot for him.

I agree.

My post has quite a bit of wishful thinking, I must admit.

[nhs67]

I would probably do my tiers something like this:

1 - McEnelly
2 - Ferrari, Ryder, Sinclair, Welsh
3 - Allred, Smith
4 - Brenot, Fishback, Mantanona, Thompson
5 - Ayzerov, Cartegena-Walsh, Dean, Goin

That is out the gate.  There is room for a lot of up/down movement.  I don't think Fishback enteres Tier 3, but Brenot and Mantanona could.  Ayzerov could have the most 'bloated' record of the bunch, but likely has Goin and Mantanona early in the season despite a very easy back stretch - will be good come seeding purposes for him, though.  Allred and Smith being upper classmen could see some reduction in production.  Soldano could see inclusion in to this list very quickly.

These are off the top, not sure if I missed anybody.  Thompson, I so badly wanted to put at Tier 3, but with his showing at the wrong weight class (174lbs) two seasons ago, I just couldn't.

Edit:  For those who don't remember or don't know how I do my tiers - unless someone is unexpectedly decked or injured, there shouldn't be many 'tier jumps' with wins or losses.  For example, anyone in Tier 4 should be expected to have good, competitive matches with anyone in from Tier 3 to Tier 5, but shouldn't expect to beat Tier 2 or lose to Tier 6.  There are outliers, but these generally hold true.  Disclaimer:  This list can (d)evolve.

Edit #2:  The tiers are alphabetical, once listed.  Don't get your panties in a bunch because I said Ryder > Welsh or Mantanona > Thompson.

Edited yesterday at 01:01 PM by nhs67

[ionel]

21 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Edit #2:  The tiers are alphabetical, once listed.  Don't get your panties in a bunch because I said Ryder > Welsh or Mantanona > Thompson.

... hate it when that happens.  

[nhs67]

10 minutes ago, ionel said:

... hate it when that happens.  

Hourly for me.

Damned wifey hasn't done laundry in three weeks.  I pre-emptively expected this due to her being in Florida visiting family, so I am just using hers first.  Once I run out (any day now), I will then change it up and wear my own, slightly less comfortable units.

[ionel]

3 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Hourly for me.

Damned wifey hasn't done laundry in three weeks.  I pre-emptively expected this due to her being in Florida visiting family, so I am just using hers first.  Once I run out (any day now), I will then change it up and wear my own, slightly less comfortable units.

Good plan!  I've been out of state for ~3 weeks dont have that option.  

[Le duke]

If Mirasola the smaller can be effective down at 184, Welsh might not be the starter. 

[nhs67]

16 minutes ago, Le duke said:

If Mirasola the Smaller can be effective down at 184, Welsh might not be the starter. 

FIFY

Also so we're clear, until Cole breaks 231lbs and is effective, he will be known as Mirasola the Less Small.

Edited yesterday at 01:59 PM by nhs67

[BaldHeadedShannon]

On 10/18/2025 at 4:41 PM, Mr. PeanutButter said:

Mcn, Welsh, and the next highest returning placer. Heck, I think Smith and Allred both have a case to be ranked ahead of Ferrari. That's of course based on my own personal opinion and preference for ranking guys with at least one full season of work above freshmen, even very talented ones

As a guy who likes Iowa, I agree with this. Would like to see some more from Angelo. 

[fishbane]

I'm wouldn't have Ryder in the same tier as the others yet.

Welsh - 2nd as a true freshman (174).  Has NCAA wins over Wolak, Wask, Turley, Ruth, Ruiz, Kennedy.  He was 5th at Senior nationals (86kg) and won the u23 trials (86kg) defeating Jaxon Smith in the best of three.

McEnelly - 3rd as a red shirt freshman (184).  Has NCAA wins over Smith, Ruth, Plott, Foca, Berger, Allred.  He won U20 nationals and the trials beating Sinclair in both.  Went on to win the U20 world title (86kg).

Ferrari - He will be a redshirt freshman this season.  Has not wrestled at NCAAs. Has NCAA win over Plott. Won Soldier Salute (184).

Sinclair - He will be a redshirt freshman this season.  Has not wrestled at NCAAs. Has NCAA win over Salazar.  Won Soldier Salute (197).  He won U20 nationals in 2024 (86kg) beating Josh Barr in the finals.  In the best of three at the trials he fell to Josh Barr 2 matches to 1.  In 2025  lost in the finals of U20 nationals to McEnelly (86kg).  At the trials he again fell to McEnelly 2 matches to 1.  He also wrestled at Senior nationals in 2025 where he finishes 2nd (92kg) to Hidlay.  He beat NCAA champ Michael Macchiavello in the semis and out placed Plott.  He has lost to Plott in the dual.

Zack Ryder - Will be a redshirt freshman and has not wrestled at NCAAs yet. Has an NCAA win over TJ Stewart.  2025 Southern Scuffle Champion (184).  Won 2024 U20 Nationals (79kg) and U20 trials.  Went on to place 2nd at U20 worlds. Beat Mulvany and Ruiz at U20 nationals and Gabe Arnold in the best of three at the trials.

I'd probably have them McEnelly, Welsh, Sinclair, Ferrari, Smith as the top 5 in that order.  If I were forced to rank based on only  NCAA results Smith is probably 3 and Ferrari 4 with Allred 5th.  Ryder is  outside the top 5 regardless, but that could change after national duals. 

[neweruser69]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think Ferrari's stance will be officiated differently moving forward. He got a lot of benefit of the doubt as a redshirt looking for upsets - just seems like as a favorite he will get dinged more frequently for that stall-stance.

Perhaps not. 

[MPhillips]

8 minutes ago, neweruser69 said:

I think Ferrari's stance will be officiated differently moving forward.

That should have everything to d with the referees and nothing to do with the perceived favorite...

[MadHatter]

On 10/18/2025 at 6:47 PM, BruceyB said:

Welsh also gets a ton of credit for making the NCAA finals when his best win in the tournament was Edmund Ruth. Starocci, Lewis, and Griffith all being on the topside due to the Starocci 9 seed really paved a path for him. I obviously think that Welsh is very good, but McEnelly will be my pick when they wrestle for the first time.

Thanks for all the responses everyone - very insightful and definitely a couple of dynamics i didn’t consider in my original post like Welsh’s bracket at the NCAAs, his offensive output, etc. 

After watching more videos of Welsh and McEnelly, something else I’ve noticed too is McEnelly seems to be have the more top end explosiveness and athleticism (as well as being seemingly bigger) (which all makes sense) and that has to count for something too

[Bigbrog]

I love McEnelly!!  My hope is he runs the table and Sinclair is runner up.

[ScottishSteel]

22 hours ago, nhs67 said:

I would probably do my tiers something like this:

1 - McEnelly
2 - Ferrari, Ryder, Sinclair, Welsh
3 - Allred, Smith
4 - Brenot, Fishback, Mantanona, Thompson
5 - Ayzerov, Cartegena-Walsh, Dean, Goin

That is out the gate.  There is room for a lot of up/down movement.  I don't think Fishback enteres Tier 3, but Brenot and Mantanona could.  Ayzerov could have the most 'bloated' record of the bunch, but likely has Goin and Mantanona early in the season despite a very easy back stretch - will be good come seeding purposes for him, though.  Allred and Smith being upper classmen could see some reduction in production.  Soldano could see inclusion in to this list very quickly.

These are off the top, not sure if I missed anybody.  Thompson, I so badly wanted to put at Tier 3, but with his showing at the wrong weight class (174lbs) two seasons ago, I just couldn't.

Edit:  For those who don't remember or don't know how I do my tiers - unless someone is unexpectedly decked or injured, there shouldn't be many 'tier jumps' with wins or losses.  For example, anyone in Tier 4 should be expected to have good, competitive matches with anyone in from Tier 3 to Tier 5, but shouldn't expect to beat Tier 2 or lose to Tier 6.  There are outliers, but these generally hold true.  Disclaimer:  This list can (d)evolve.

Edit #2:  The tiers are alphabetical, once listed.  Don't get your panties in a bunch because I said Ryder > Welsh or Mantanona > Thompson.

I largely agree w/ your tiers but I have a two part question; what makes you include Goin and what makes you exclude Neitenbach?  I feel that's the only disagreement I have w/ what you listed

[nhs67]

1 hour ago, ScottishSteel said:

I largely agree w/ your tiers but I have a two part question; what makes you include Goin and what makes you exclude Neitenbach?  I feel that's the only disagreement I have w/ what you listed

Including Goin was because Neitenbach had a lot of matches where he just wasn't even in it throughout the year.  Goin didn't wrestle the quantity of matches that Neitenbach did, but I just thought that he would have been able to keep some of those Berge matches closer as the season went on and it just did not happen.  Bennet would have been in that Tier 4 at season's end, were he to have stayed 184lbs, and they wrestled four times and there was no doubt in any of those matches.

If I had done a tier 6, Neitenbach would have been there with guys like Bullock, Bush, Conway, and Soldano.

Both were true Frosh and have huge upside for improvement, though.  We will see pretty early, with Fishback (Ohio State) in Round 1 of the National Duals Invitational and either McEnelly (Minnesota) or Bullock (Virginia Tech) right out the gate for Neitenbach, just how much he has improved.

Also, I didn't actually sit down to do what I would consider a 'final' tier list.  I did that in ~three minutes, from my phone.  The disclusion could simply be a mistake.  In looking at it, I do think that Neitenbach could beat anyone in Tier 5.  I don't think he touches Allred or Smith, though.  I think Goin makes that a match with them.

Also also, these lists can (d)evolve.

[ScottishSteel]

2 hours ago, nhs67 said:

Including Goin was because Neitenbach had a lot of matches where he just wasn't even in it throughout the year.  Goin didn't wrestle the quantity of matches that Neitenbach did, but I just thought that he would have been able to keep some of those Berge matches closer as the season went on and it just did not happen.  Bennet would have been in that Tier 4 at season's end, were he to have stayed 184lbs, and they wrestled four times and there was no doubt in any of those matches.

If I had done a tier 6, Neitenbach would have been there with guys like Bullock, Bush, Conway, and Soldano.

Both were true Frosh and have huge upside for improvement, though.  We will see pretty early, with Fishback (Ohio State) in Round 1 of the National Duals Invitational and either McEnelly (Minnesota) or Bullock (Virginia Tech) right out the gate for Neitenbach, just how much he has improved.

Also, I didn't actually sit down to do what I would consider a 'final' tier list.  I did that in ~three minutes, from my phone.  The disclusion could simply be a mistake.  In looking at it, I do think that Neitenbach could beat anyone in Tier 5.  I don't think he touches Allred or Smith, though.  I think Goin makes that a match with them.

Also also, these lists can (d)evolve.

Appreciate the explanation; I'm high on Neitenbach and don't see it with Goin so just wanted the different perspective cause I'm certainly not the smartest guy in the room.