Iowa Conspiracy Theory - Nelson Brands

[neweruser69]

Given recent events it's become increasingly strange to me that Gabe Arnold isn't down at 174, which would seem to be his optimal weight.

I'd wager he was placed at 184 for the season so that Nelson could get one final shot to compete as they knew he was closer to Kennedy than Arnold.

If they pull Ferrari's shirt it becomes quiet a screwjob IMO. Seems like some family cookin'

 

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

Your theory is likely the reality.

Arnold has admitted on record he's 5'6 and not a true 184 pounder.  Obviously Dad and Uncle Brands want to get Nelson a final shot at glory as a 8th year senior...

We always knew Kennedy was probably going to be the one to get the shaft.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

26 minutes ago, neweruser69 said:

Given recent events it's become increasingly strange to me that Gabe Arnold isn't down at 174, which would seem to be his optimal weight.

I'd wager he was placed at 184 for the season so that Nelson could get one final shot to compete as they knew he was closer to Kennedy than Arnold.

If they pull Ferrari's shirt it becomes quiet a screwjob IMO. Seems like some family cookin'

 

I don't think you know what "conspiracy theory" means.

Maybe "theory."

[SocraTease]

Aren't twins (the Brands) almost by  (biological) definition a conspiracy of sorts since they shared the same breath in the womb and probably will continue to do so (in a broad sense) until the tomb?

Conspire: literally "to breathe together," from com/con "with, together" + spirare "to breathe"

[1032004]

What did Brands show yesterday to earn the spot?  I think they used him because they thought he could keep it closer with Hamiti.  I think it’s going to be Kennedy at 174

[Gene Mills Fan]

5 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

What did Brands show yesterday to earn the spot?  I think they used him because they thought he could keep it closer with Hamiti.  I think it’s going to be Kennedy at 174

They are both Seniors, Kennedy is an awesome value team player everything you want. Has Nelson been any different besides the suspension? Kenedy's problem is he never has given them any post season points. I think? Nelson had a good Big ten and an NCAA 5th. I think there may be decent reasons for a wrestle off without saying they are screwing someone. 

Edited 10 hours ago by Gene Mills Fan

[neweruser69]

4 minutes ago, Gene Mills Fan said:

They are both Seniors, Kennedy is an awesome value team player everything you want. Has Nelson been any different besides the suspension? Kenedy's problem is he never has given them any post season points. I think? Nelson had a good Big ten and an NCAA 5th. I think there may be decent reasons for a wrestle off without saying they are screwing someone. 

I'm saying the guy getting hosed is Arnold here, not Kennedy. But that I agree with.

[BarSeries]

1 hour ago, neweruser69 said:

If they pull Ferrari's shirt

Not happening. Four national championships is better than three. 

[Caveira]

13 minutes ago, neweruser69 said:

I'm saying the guy getting hosed is Arnold here, not Kennedy. But that I agree with.

Are there any facts that Arnold is beating Kennedy (or brands) in the room?

Edited 9 hours ago by Caveira

[Husker_Du]

19 minutes ago, Gene Mills Fan said:

They are both Seniors, Kennedy is an awesome value team player everything you want. Has Nelson been any different besides the suspension? Kenedy's problem is he never has given them any post season points. I think? Nelson had a good Big ten and an NCAA 5th. I think there may be decent reasons for a wrestle off without saying they are screwing someone. 

Kennedy is a Junior.

[Hammerlock3]

Brands at the press conference usually says, "we're going to put the best team on the mat", it shifted to "we're going to put the team on the mat that makes the most sense given all the circumstances"

[Gene Mills Fan]

3 minutes ago, Husker_Du said:

Kennedy is a Junior.

Thats what I thought until I went to their roster page

[Hammerlock3]

1 minute ago, Gene Mills Fan said:

Thats what I thought until I went to their roster page

His first year on the team was 20-21.....so i would think he would be done after 24-25....

[BarSeries]

11 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said:

His first year on the team was 20-21.....so i would think he would be done after 24-25....

Isn't 20-21 the free year and he redshirted 21-22?

[VakAttack]

Kennedy has one year of eligibility left.

 

As to this farcical post, first we can let Gabe Arnold speak for himself:

 

 

The most logical way this played out, to me (and this is without insider info)

1.  Gabe, Kennedy, and Brands all want to go 174 in the offseason, and all are healthy.

2.  Brands at that point was beating the other two, so Gabe makes the decision early to go up.

3.  Kennedy is small for 174, let alone 184 so that's not viable for him.

4.  The presumption was Brands and Kennedy would battle it out for 174, but most people thought Brands was the favorite in that match up.

5.  Brands gets hurt, so Kennedy can slide in to that spot.  Arnold is already up at 184 and doing well.  Brands is injured, so he can't be counted on to bump up in that scenario, which would have allowed Arnold to come down and challenged Kennedy.

7.  Brands is out for most of the season; Kennedy wrestles well against lesser competition;  Gabe does pretty well at 184, but not lights out.

8.  Kennedy meets some of the tougher guys, and the results start to dry up; Brands is cleared, and is coming back.

 

Now this is all deductive reasoning, but it all makes sense.  And no, I don't think Gabe was placed at 184.  I think it's very likely RS freshman Gabe Arnold was struggling to beat a healthy former 5th place finisher at the NCAAs, so he decided to go up (and will come back down next year).

 

[Dogbone]

14 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

Now this all deductive reasoning, but it all makes sense.  And no, I don't think Gabe was placed at 184.  I think it's very likely RS freshman Gabe Arnold was struggling to beat a healthy former 5th place finisher at the NCAAs, so he decided to go up (and will come back down next year).

 

This makes complete sense.  I would only offer the following on your sound reasoning.

1. Kennedy may have wanted to go 165 but couldn't beat Caliendo so it was 174 or bust and he was okay not winning the spot.  

2. Gabe/Brands in the offseason might of been pretty even (neither is lighting up a scoreboard so the room battles are probably close).  Brands wants to go 174 so Gabe, who has some success at 184 last year, decides to put on weight in the off season when there was no clear 184 with Angelo wanting to redshirt.

[ionel]

1 hour ago, 1032004 said:

What did Brands show yesterday to earn the spot?  I think they used him because they thought he could keep it closer with Hamiti.  I think it’s going to be Kennedy at 174

They used him because they needed someone to go out there and only do collar ties.  Kindve like Ferrari and the knees ..  no way he'd get called for stalling at CHA so tie up and lose by decision.  

[Hammerlock3]

15 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

Kennedy has one year of eligibility left.

 

As to this farcical post, first we can let Gabe Arnold speak for himself:

 

 

The most logical way this played out, to me (and this is without insider info)

1.  Gabe, Kennedy, and Brands all want to go 174 in the offseason, and all are healthy.

2.  Brands at that point was beating the other two, so Gabe makes the decision early to go up.

3.  Kennedy is small for 174, let alone 184 so that's not viable for him.

4.  The presumption was Brands and Kennedy would battle it out for 174, but most people thought Brands was the favorite in that match up.

5.  Brands gets hurt, so Kennedy can slide in to that spot.  Arnold is already up at 184 and doing well.  Brands is injured, so he can't be counted on to bump up in that scenario, which would have allowed Arnold to come down and challenged Kennedy.

7.  Brands is out for most of the season; Kennedy wrestles well against lesser competition;  Gabe does pretty well at 184, but not lights out.

8.  Kennedy meets some of the tougher guys, and the results start to dry up; Brands is cleared, and is coming back.

 

Now this is all deductive reasoning, but it all makes sense.  And no, I don't think Gabe was placed at 184.  I think it's very likely RS freshman Gabe Arnold was struggling to beat a healthy former 5th place finisher at the NCAAs, so he decided to go up (and will come back down next year).

 

Yeah letting arnold speak for himself has been a great idea....the only thing I take from that is that Ferrari is gonna sit. 

Your timeline makes sense but for me feels a little weak because it relies on the idea that Brands>Kennedy, which I don't think....but maybe I'm assessing them as wrestlers and not taking into account that Kennedy is just too small....

I don't think this i gonna be a good look for Iowa ultimately. I'm feeling no placer at 174 (plus getting crapped on for nepotism if they start Brands) and a low AA finish for Arnold, making him the most overdiscussed wrestler in the NCAA.

[VakAttack]

The idea that Brands was out there just to save the major might hold more water if we hadn't seen Kennedy wrestle Hamiti twice and keep it to a decision both times.  It's pretty clear to me they're trying to get as much data about Nelson as they can before they have to decide.

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

26 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

Kennedy has one year of eligibility left.

 

As to this farcical post, first we can let Gabe Arnold speak for himself:

 

 

The most logical way this played out, to me (and this is without insider info)

1.  Gabe, Kennedy, and Brands all want to go 174 in the offseason, and all are healthy.

2.  Brands at that point was beating the other two, so Gabe makes the decision early to go up.

3.  Kennedy is small for 174, let alone 184 so that's not viable for him.

4.  The presumption was Brands and Kennedy would battle it out for 174, but most people thought Brands was the favorite in that match up.

5.  Brands gets hurt, so Kennedy can slide in to that spot.  Arnold is already up at 184 and doing well.  Brands is injured, so he can't be counted on to bump up in that scenario, which would have allowed Arnold to come down and challenged Kennedy.

7.  Brands is out for most of the season; Kennedy wrestles well against lesser competition;  Gabe does pretty well at 184, but not lights out.

8.  Kennedy meets some of the tougher guys, and the results start to dry up; Brands is cleared, and is coming back.

 

Now this is all deductive reasoning, but it all makes sense.  And no, I don't think Gabe was placed at 184.  I think it's very likely RS freshman Gabe Arnold was struggling to beat a healthy former 5th place finisher at the NCAAs, so he decided to go up (and will come back down next year).

 

Interesting but I don't see Arnold being able to beat Brands.  Arnold is basically the same wrestlers as Brands, just 8 years younger.

[wrestle87]

This is likely true, and would be john smith levels of home cooking to the detriment of the team.

The Brands we saw last night is not going to get more than two wins at ncaa's, and likely won't get higher than 7th at big tens.  Kennedy has a much higher ceiling than that. 

Brands is clearly very beat up, you can just tell when a guy has multiple joints giving out, they get hesitant and don't want to commit because something is already broken and they don't want it to get worse.  I highly suspect this is what Cam Amine is facing.  He doesn't wrestle freely anymore. Even if he was always conservative, wrestling clearly physically hurts in a way it didn't use to.

Arnold belongs at 174, and is missing out because he likely agreed to be the team player even though he is clearly better than both 174 options.  Absolute strength is a level-setter, and he has more horsepower than anyone else on the team can bring at 174.  Too bad he got the royal screw job.  

If they really wanted, would they be allowed to start Gabe and just let him hack his way through Big 10's with no wins? Or does he not qualify because he didn't have enough matches at that weight?

[VakAttack]

6 minutes ago, wrestle87 said:

This is likely true, and would be john smith levels of home cooking to the detriment of the team.

The Brands we saw last night is not going to get more than two wins at ncaa's, and likely won't get higher than 7th at big tens.  Kennedy has a much higher ceiling than that. 

Brands is clearly very beat up, you can just tell when a guy has multiple joints giving out, they get hesitant and don't want to commit because something is already broken and they don't want it to get worse.  I highly suspect this is what Cam Amine is facing.  He doesn't wrestle freely anymore. Even if he was always conservative, wrestling clearly physically hurts in a way it didn't use to.

Arnold belongs at 174, and is missing out because he likely agreed to be the team player even though he is clearly better than both 174 options.  Absolute strength is a level-setter, and he has more horsepower than anyone else on the team can bring at 174.  Too bad he got the royal screw job.  

If they really wanted, would they be allowed to start Gabe and just let him hack his way through Big 10's with no wins? Or does he not qualify because he didn't have enough matches at that weight?

The amount of wishcasting and stretching some of you have to do to get to your fantasies about Iowa falling off a cliff are insane.

As to PK having a higher ceiling than Brands...based on what?  I've said this multiple times and in multiple places:  They've each been to two NCAA tournaments.  Brands took 5th once and went 1-2 once.  Kennedy made the bloodround once and made the R16 once.  Kennedy has one single bonus point in his two trips, over a clearly injured Phil Conigliaro, Brands has no bonus wins.

If you look at the list of their wins, and try to decide who has better wins, it's not even close.  Kennedy's best wins, by far, are over Edmond Ruth and Cam Amine (which was reversed at NCAAs).  Brands has wins over Dustin Plott (twice), Chris Foca, Peyton Mocco,  Edmond Ruth, and Ethan Smith.  It's pretty clear that Nelson has had the better career and if reasonably healthy is the better choice.

[1032004]

14 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

The idea that Brands was out there just to save the major might hold more water if we hadn't seen Kennedy wrestle Hamiti twice and keep it to a decision both times.  It's pretty clear to me they're trying to get as much data about Nelson as they can before they have to decide.

Correct, when I said “keep it close” I meant have a chance to win, heck I picked him to beat Hamiti .  But I see some people saying because he wrestled yesterday they think he has the spot which I’d disagree with, especially since he didn’t look great IMO

[VakAttack]

2 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Correct, when I said “keep it close” I meant have a chance to win, heck I picked him to beat Hamiti .  But I see some people saying because he wrestled yesterday they think he has the spot which I’d disagree with, especially since he didn’t look great IMO

I agree with this idea.  If Nelson had managed to beat Hamiti, i don't believe there's any conversation to have.  Now obviously he wasn't particularly close, so there's a conversation to be had.

[PortaJohn]

50 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

The most logical way this played out, to me (and this is without insider info)

Way to ruin 4 potential pages of fun conspiracies Vak. Not supposed to bring in logic until later.  Such a joy thief

Edited 7 hours ago by PortaJohn