Glory to remain at 125

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

According to Coach Ayres, Patrick will have a 'modified weigh-in schedule' for the rest of the season.  A while back, Mr.  Glory spoke of the 'challenges' of making 125.

Gents:  This is why we have certification and weigh-in rules.  This is exactly what is not supposed to be happening, nor even be able to happen, period.  The only way this can happen is purposeful manipulation of the rules, and the body composition/hydration testing system.

I've been down this path, as an athlete and coach.  It is NOT good for the sport; a sport we were in danger of losing 25 years ago.

 

[flyingcement]

Just now, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

According to Coach Ayres, Patrick will have a 'modified weigh-in schedule' for the rest of the season.  A while back, Mr.  Glory spoke of the 'challenges' of making 125.

Gents:  This is why we have certification and weigh-in rules.  This is exactly what is not supposed to be happening, nor even be able to happen, period.  The only way this can happen is purposeful manipulation of the rules, and the body composition/hydration testing system.

I've been down this path, as an athlete and coach.  It is NOT good for the sport; a sport we were in danger of losing 25 years ago.

 

Obviously bad news for fans (and thus the sport) if a highly talented wrestling like Glory is significantly reducing matches for weight management.  What about a solution where in order to qualify for a weight class at Nationals, you must have at least X number of successful weigh-ins at that weight.  If the rule already exists now, it could be a matter of increasing the requirement.  

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

Just now, flyingcement said:

Obviously bad news for fans (and thus the sport) if a highly talented wrestling like Glory is significantly reducing matches for weight management.  What about a solution where in order to qualify for a weight class at Nationals, you must have at least X number of successful weigh-ins at that weight.  If the rule already exists now, it could be a matter of increasing the requirement.  

Good idea, but I can see it going bad (someone is injured and misses too many matches).  The fact is, the kid doesn't belong at 125 based on the existing rules.  They found grey areas or tricks to fudge certification and are deliberately manipulating the rules.  He is afraid at 133, and likes to use his size advantage against 125s.

As an athlete, I was very old school as far as weight cutting, but a lot of this changed after the deaths.  Even more changed as I grew older and saw more and more.

[flyingcement]

1 minute ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Good idea, but I can see it going bad (someone is injured and misses too many matches).  The fact is, the kid doesn't belong at 125 based on the existing rules.  They found grey areas or tricks to fudge certification and are deliberately manipulating the rules.  He is afraid at 133, and likes to use his size advantage against 125s.

As an athlete, I was very old school as far as weight cutting, but a lot of this changed after the deaths.  Even more changed as I grew older and saw more and more.

I agree with you and I'm sure my idea has other flaws, but that is why I said X number of weigh-ins instead of X number of matches.  This enables even injured guys to comply without risk.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

... and isn't this the guy who flew out to Iowa when he knew Lee was not wrestling, missed weight, and then claimed Spencer was ducking him and he had no interest in wrestling a backup?

[flyingcement]

Thinking a big more about my proposal, I'm not sure how helpful it would be.

If someone knows they don't need to wrestle afterward, they can cut weight much more aggressively without worrying about short term performance impact.  It could fuel a bigger problem potentially.  

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

2 minutes ago, flyingcement said:

Thinking a big more about my proposal, I'm not sure how helpful it would be.

If someone knows they don't need to wrestle afterward, they can cut weight much more aggressively without worrying about short term performance impact.  It could fuel a bigger problem potentially.  

Yep.  Some many grey areas.  I know some states require you to take the mat for the weigh-in to count at the high school level.

Wrestlers are very good at finding ways around rules!

[gimpeltf]

27 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

According to Coach Ayres, Patrick will have a 'modified weigh-in schedule' for the rest of the season.  A while back, Mr.  Glory spoke of the 'challenges' of making 125.

Gents:  This is why we have certification and weigh-in rules.  This is exactly what is not supposed to be happening, nor even be able to happen, period.  The only way this can happen is purposeful manipulation of the rules, and the body composition/hydration testing system.

I've been down this path, as an athlete and coach.  It is NOT good for the sport; a sport we were in danger of losing 25 years ago.

 

The rules for qualification are independent of those for certification, so I don't understand your point. I see other posts after yours making suggestions to connect them some, which is fine but you're implying a breaking of rules here. It sounds like Princeton is doing that to protect his safety not endanger it.

[Red Blades]

Presently, a minimum number of matches are needed for a coaches ranking (I believe it has been 8?), which means, in effect, minimum matches to be seeded - is that enough of a boundary?

[bnwtwg]

“If Carl can skip meets then so can I. But I’m scared of 133 more than I’m scared of permanently damaging my body.”

Glory, 2023

[ionel]

58 minutes ago, Red Blades said:

Presently, a minimum number of matches are needed for a coaches ranking (I believe it has been 8?), which means, in effect, minimum matches to be seeded - is that enough of a boundary?

Are you talking NCAA tournament, cause everyone gets seeded regardless, correct?

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

1 hour ago, gimpeltf said:

The rules for qualification are independent of those for certification, so I don't understand your point. I see other posts after yours making suggestions to connect them some, which is fine but you're implying a breaking of rules here. It sounds like Princeton is doing that to protect his safety not endanger it.

If safety is an issue, he shouldn't be going down to 125.  At all.  That is the point of the rules. He should be 133.  You bare either a 125, or you are not.

There are ways to manipulate certification that are not "breaking rules' but do enable guys to certify at lower weights than they should.  Every program does it, but it seems to be happening with some more than others, or to a greater degree.

It is not 1997 anymore.

Edited January 6, 2023 by Interviewed_at_Weehawken

[VakAttack]

Ewww.  Hope he's OK, but that awwms less than ideal in modern times.

[Mike]

Terrible move and basically selling their souls to attempt to have a national champion even though it’s clearly dangerous in terms of his health. The staff should be better than this. It’s a sad, pathetic look.

[dragit]

3 hours ago, VakAttack said:

Ewww.  Hope he's OK, but that awwms less than ideal in modern times.

What are you referencing?

[scourge165]

7 hours ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

If safety is an issue, he shouldn't be going down to 125.  At all.  That is the point of the rules. He should be 133.  You bare either a 125, or you are not.

There are ways to manipulate certification that are not "breaking rules' but do enable guys to certify at lower weights than they should.  Every program does it, but it seems to be happening with some more than others, or to a greater degree.

It is not 1997 anymore.

You're right...you don't get all day to get ready after weigh in's. The turn around is much quicker...

That's how you had Joe Williams wrestling 150 with a 28 inch waist. He was cutting his balls off. As were other Wrestlers. WAAAY past Glory levels. 

Does anyone here have any personal knowledge of Glory's issues OTHER than '25 is a difficult cut for him to maintain and wrestle at every weigh in, including a Friday and Saturday duel?

And I'm not sure I see the "fear." He's staying at a weight where he's going to face(if well goes well) one of the greatest and most dominant Wrestlers ever. 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

11 hours ago, gimpeltf said:

The rules for qualification are independent of those for certification, so I don't understand your point. I see other posts after yours making suggestions to connect them some, which is fine but you're implying a breaking of rules here. It sounds like Princeton is doing that to protect his safety not endanger it.

Also, the best way to protect his safety is for him to go 133.  That is the purpose of the rules.  If 125 isn't safe to make all of the time, it is not the weight class for young Patrick.  This is where the adults need to step in and do the right thing.

[Idaho]

12 hours ago, flyingcement said:

Obviously bad news for fans (and thus the sport) if a highly talented wrestling like Glory is significantly reducing matches for weight management.  What about a solution where in order to qualify for a weight class at Nationals, you must have at least X number of successful weigh-ins at that weight.  If the rule already exists now, it could be a matter of increasing the requirement.  

Seems there are several wrestlers that are on a limited schedule this year for a variety of reasons. And they want to grow the sport... 

[RandolphTJones]

Health concerns/ manipulating rules, MFF's like crazy at certain tournaments, several ranked wrestlers not wrestling in said tournaments to begin with, paying for every little ounce of wrestling covering, paying for coverage that's already behind a paywall. What a strange season of wrestling. Still hope the sport can attract new fans or else it can be in trouble. Just think there needs to be more accountability within each program. 

[Red Blades]

12 hours ago, ionel said:

Are you talking NCAA tournament, cause everyone gets seeded regardless, correct?

Right, I'm thinking back to the example of Jesse Delgado a number of years back (2016?) where I believe he came in unseeded as a returning national champ due to lack of coaches ranking and RPI.  There was a lot of discussion then IIRC about the fairness or appropriatness of this.  More recently the tournament does get seeded top to bottom, but even so, with no ranking or RPI, the consequences would be pretty severe.

Different situation with Delgado, as I believe the issue for him was injury rather than weight - but the need to maintain a minimum match count at weight is still in effect.

[Formally140]

2 hours ago, RandolphTJones said:

Health concerns/ manipulating rules, MFF's like crazy at certain tournaments, several ranked wrestlers not wrestling in said tournaments to begin with, paying for every little ounce of wrestling covering, paying for coverage that's already behind a paywall. What a strange season of wrestling. Still hope the sport can attract new fans or else it can be in trouble. Just think there needs to be more accountability within each program. 

The real problem is that, a significant chunk of the community does really seem to understand that Wrestling could compete with bigger sports eventually..  but the year round club wrestling approach. Which only focuses on a couple tournaments and what’s only convenient for the athlete has taken over.

They insist it’s just a “niche” sport run in “niche” ways “so why even bother” doing things to make it more appealing or more professional a product. 

Im at the point where it is what it is. I just want people to start being more honest and transparent about what’s going on. It’s hard for me to get in an uproar about it when many of the people complaining the most(not saying you, but other people) are directly involved in creating the culture to make this stuff happen 

[VakAttack]

9 hours ago, dragit said:

What are you referencing?

I mean I hope he doesn't suffer any sort of long-term issues from this kind of thing.  In the current times and climate, I think this kind of thing, which was more accepted years ago but we know now is extremely dangerous, should be stopped.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

10 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

I mean I hope he doesn't suffer any sort of long-term issues from this kind of thing.  In the current times and climate, I think this kind of thing, which was more accepted years ago but we know now is extremely dangerous, should be stopped.

People are forgetting how close we were to losing the sport, and the adults (who should be smarter) seem to be blinded by their own ambition.  

[VakAttack]

5 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

People are forgetting how close we were to losing the sport, and the adults (who should be smarter) seem to be blinded by their own ambition.  

I agree.  The odds are he'll be fine and nothing will happen, but this is extremely uncomfortable for me.  Not as uncomfortable as I am with the head injury stuff, but still uncomfortable.

[Caveira]

What specifically is glory or Princeton doing wrong?  Not defending him but I don’t really see it spelled out in this thread.