Thoughts on improving freestyle

[mspart]

Also, I have seen where a guy gets a takedown and turns him and gets 2.   I have never understood this.   It's as if you do it all in one move, you get less points.   That seems backwards to me.   If you have control, and turn, or vice-versa, you get 2 takedown and whatever the exposure yields. 

mspart

[Fadzaev2]

  On 9/16/2024 at 4:07 AM, SocraTease said:

Limit the number of times you can leg lace or gut someone to 2 in one sequence.  

That seems reasonable to me to prevent early ends of a match and keep things interesting.  

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We use to have a limit on number of consecutive guts.....maybe lacelegs as well.....I agree with this.

[Crotalus]

  On 10/24/2024 at 4:03 PM, Fadzaev2 said:

We use to have a limit on number of consecutive guts.....maybe lacelegs as well.....I agree with this.

I'm pretty sure there was a time when you had to release the hold, similar to folk, before you could turn again.

Anyways, I think bringing back the blood rags guys had to show the ref and then tuck in their singlet would be a great improvement.

[Crotalus]

  On 9/27/2024 at 8:13 PM, mspart said:

Also, I have seen where a guy gets a takedown and turns him and gets 2. 

It's really the opposite. If you expose your opponent from neutral (but not standing) and then end up on top, you get the 2pt exposure but no takedown. I don't have a problem with it, but it is a bit curious. It certainly incentives the defensive wrestler to bail out and give up control so as to not get exposed again.

[bnwtwg]

  On 10/24/2024 at 4:03 PM, Fadzaev2 said:

We use to have a limit on number of consecutive guts.....maybe lacelegs as well.....I agree with this.

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Back in my day you had to change directions on guts and laces to score more points but you could still go consecutively until tech. I would like to see it come back but with the pace tournaments are currently at bringing review to that scenario would inevitably make things worse.

[GimJustafan]

goodbye to grounding 

control should need  to be established before you can score exposure points 

add OT - no more ending a match with a tie  score 

[The Kid]

  On 10/24/2024 at 6:56 PM, GimJustafan said:

goodbye to grounding 

control should need  to be established before you can score exposure points 

add OT - no more ending a match with a tie  score 

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Yes, goodbye to grounding. 

No. You always have control if you expose your opponent.  You literally can't accidentally expose your opponent. 

No.  There is never a tie in freestyle. One wrestler is always winning and vica versa. There simply aren't any tie bouts now.

 

Edited October 24, 2024 by The Kid

[GimJustafan]

  On 10/24/2024 at 10:30 PM, The Kid said:

Yes, goodbye to grounding. 

No. You always have control if you expose your opponent.  You literally can't accidentally expose your opponent. 

No.  There is never a tie in freestyle. One wrestler is always winning and vica versa. There simply aren't any tie bouts now.

 

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you do not have to have control to score exposure points / it who initiates  the action but control is not always awarded 

I'm well aware of that but let's be honest talking ways to improve freestyle

criteria is BS , when score board reads 4-4 is that not a tie 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

  On 10/25/2024 at 12:13 PM, GimJustafan said:

you do not have to have control to score exposure points / it who initiates  the action but control is not always awarded 

I'm well aware of that but let's be honest talking ways to improve freestyle

criteria is BS , when score board reads 4-4 is that not a tie 

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Just give a point to the guy who had criteria once the match is over, similar to the OT rideout.  It looks better in results.  Less confusion, esp. with casuals.

[ionel]

  On 10/25/2024 at 12:13 PM, GimJustafan said:

you do not have to have control to score exposure points / it who initiates  the action but control is not always awarded 

I'm well aware of that but let's be honest talking ways to improve freestyle

criteria is BS , when score board reads 4-4 is that not a tie 

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_

[scourge165]

This thread started...in a silly way, but

1-No criteria. Put them back into the Center and let them Wrestle until someone scores.

2-I thought the rule used to be you could only do one gut(maybe it was 2) unless you held them there for a 3rd point.

I wouldn't mind that. 

That's about it. I think there's too much trying to "fix" what's not broken. 

[Scouts Honor]

not putting world champs against each other first round

[scourge165]

  On 10/27/2024 at 8:42 PM, Scouts Honor said:

not putting world champs against each other first round

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All you can do is just...laugh at the absurdity or it.

I'm not real confident Taylor will place now...but he could come back and have a chance to go for 3rd.  

[Scouts Honor]

not to mention burroughs against the iranian

a rematch of a finals match 

[maligned]

  On 10/25/2024 at 12:13 PM, GimJustafan said:

you do not have to have control to score exposure points / it who initiates  the action but control is not always awarded 

I'm well aware of that but let's be honest talking ways to improve freestyle

criteria is BS , when score board reads 4-4 is that not a tie 

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I get the annoyance with what the scoreboard reads, but the wrestlers know mentally the bonus value of scoring or giving something up in certain moments. And the wrestling shows it. If it's 3-3 with one guy's name underlined, the wrestling on the mat reflects a score of 4 to 3--it doesn't matter what the board says.

[maligned]

  On 10/27/2024 at 2:44 AM, scourge165 said:

 

1-No criteria. Put them back into the Center and let them Wrestle until someone scores.

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We know practically this can't happen unless passivity is prominently involved in many matches. We've been down the subjective passivity-decides-matches road historically. It's a disaster. I'd much rather the current system where wrestlers know the rules full well and determine the winner themselves. Knowing the passivity nightmare we would have in OT, I can live with certain takedowns or step outs having slightly extra value in context.

[scourge165]

  On 10/28/2024 at 7:44 AM, maligned said:

We know practically this can't happen unless passivity is prominently involved in many matches. We've been down the subjective passivity-decides-matches road historically. It's a disaster. I'd much rather the current system where wrestlers know the rules full well and determine the winner themselves. Knowing the passivity nightmare we would have in OT, I can live with certain takedowns or step outs having slightly extra value in context.

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Fine, get rid if passivity. Let a guy stall in the 'Extra time,' or sudden death period. No shot clocks. I don't care. TD or push out. 

There's subjectivity in everything though. I'd still rather see the actually win than each guy gets a TD and a pushout, but the last pushout is somehow more meaningful 

[maligned]

  On 10/29/2024 at 4:44 AM, scourge165 said:

Fine, get rid if passivity. Let a guy stall in the 'Extra time,' or sudden death period. No shot clocks. I don't care. TD or push out. 

There's subjectivity in everything though. I'd still rather see the actually win than each guy gets a TD and a pushout, but the last pushout is somehow more meaningful 

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Kind of like a rideout the last few seconds of regulation, OT, and UTB has 3 different meanings in college? Again, we know the stakes going in of each score earned--so the one exerting their will when it matters slightly more IS "actually winning."

[Spladle08]

This "Improve freestyle by turning it into what I'm used to (Folkstyle)" 
Will always be the least interesting posts on here. 
"I cant believe you can just be laced off the mat, thats not fair" 
"I never know who is winning" 
"In folkstyle you have to show you are better with riding time" 
"where's the overtime, I can't believe they have to score to win, it should go to ride-outs damnit"
"I can't believe they don't wrestle a full consis bracket, why fly halfway around the world to lose opening round and be done, that's not what I'm used to" 

Obviously where this kind of talk gets traction, so will the 
"I can't believe 2 unseeded wrestlers got paired up first round, they should've changed the seeding criteria to create the kind of bracket I would prefer to see, but only at this weight, because it's unique and everything needs to go as I say" 

[MPhillips]

  On 10/29/2024 at 10:32 AM, Spladle08 said:

This "Improve freestyle by turning it into what I'm used to (Folkstyle)" 
Will always be the least interesting posts on here. 

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[bnwtwg]

  On 10/29/2024 at 10:32 AM, Spladle08 said:

"In folkstyle you have to show you are better with riding time" 

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Shot clock, ride time clock, ALL STALLING!

 

[Caveira]

80s/90s folkstyle refs and same time period folkstyle rules.   Solved.