Olympic Wrestling ... Day 4

[Voice of the Quakers]

9 minutes ago, alliseeisgold said:

Exactly and that was also coached by Penn state....thats not a throwaway "eh they just got us" thats a unique position and time sequence that should of been prepped for....It looks like selling out on the stalemate like your hanging onto legs at NCAA with your head down and praying for the whistle. It's bad tactics.

Ive seen many many more times USA lose late vs euros trying to "hold on" late too. Retherford has had many tho perhaps not the same position. 

I would say there was more then one sequence that showed a lack of international savvy and instincts in this match and I believe the sequence that could of led brooks up 5-0 was international savvy by the Belarusian.

I will agree he should've finished the 2nd TD against BUL. Totally different match if so. Give the BUL credit - he wrestled through the situation very well instead of giving up. 

[Voice of the Quakers]

Just now, billyhoyle said:

Yeah. What were his results against them? I get that he shouldn’t have been sent under the current qualifying rules, but is the argument really that he got significantly worse over the past 12 months? 

Did Taylor wrestle a single match between the 2023 Worlds and the 2024 Trials? I don't believe so.

Too many of our top wrestlers are not wrestling enough, IMO.

[Spladle88]

So does Cruz wrestle for Bronze today or tomorrow?

[Wrestleknownothing]

2 minutes ago, billyhoyle said:

Yeah. What were his results against them? I get that he shouldn’t have been sent under the current qualifying rules, but is the argument really that he got significantly worse over the past 12 months? 

Yes, and Taylor's statement was that he lost the fire. Without the fire he got worse.

[denger]

Just now, Spladle88 said:

So does Cruz wrestle for Bronze today or tomorrow?

It'll be right about this time tomorrow.

[1032004]

14 minutes ago, alliseeisgold said:

Exactly and that was also coached by Penn state....thats not a throwaway "eh they just got us" thats a unique position and time sequence that should of been prepped for....It looks like selling out on the stalemate like your hanging onto legs at NCAA with your head down and praying for the whistle. It's bad tactics.

Ive seen many many more times USA lose late vs euros trying to "hold on" late too. Retherford has had many tho perhaps not the same position. 

I would say there was more then one sequence that showed a lack of international savvy and instincts in this match and I believe the sequence that could of led brooks up 5-0 was international savvy by the Belarusian.

I don’t think “selling out on the stalemate” with only a few seconds left was the wrong decision.  I’m more surprised he took that bad shot that got him into that position.

[D3 for LU]

Just now, denger said:

It'll be right about this time tomorrow.

Affirmative.

(Go Cruz...  NCAA champion for LEHIGH... given a chance for an Olympic bronze medal.)

B&W all the way.

D3

[billyhoyle]

3 minutes ago, Voice of the Quakers said:

Did Taylor wrestle a single match between the 2023 Worlds and the 2024 Trials? I don't believe so.

Too many of our top wrestlers are not wrestling enough, IMO.

I don’t disagree with this. Maybe Taylor regressed significantly over the past year. I don’t think that happened, but it’s not impossible. 

I think many of assumed when he took out Taylor it was a passing of the torch type of moment. 

[alliseeisgold]

3 minutes ago, Voice of the Quakers said:

I will agree he should've finished the 2nd TD against BUL. Totally different match if so. Give the BUL credit - he wrestled through the situation very well instead of giving up. 

That's same thing people said about uguev against Gilman. I actually don't think it was incredible by uguev or the Belarus today - I think it's a fairly easy move for them and it will be repeated every single time

We need to train to defense that move late like defending an under hook on a throw when up big late. American instincts through folk are obviously to hold on there with no awareness whatsoever.

I believe this needs to be brought to zadichs attention. And Sanderson. It's obvious coaching malpractice. 

I believe end of match freestyle prep should take up maybe 50 percent or more of practice time. Euros just kills us there. 

Without hesitation I believe Gilman and brooks should have and would have won those matches with better coaching. 

 

[alex1fly]

Need a freestyle and Greco buddy to watch with. I get the rules but not the ref interaction. Refs talk to wrestlers and stop matches way more than I’m used to and every match I’m scratching my head wondering why they’re getting involved in what seems like a normal sequence.

Lee as always seems to just be better than his competition. Well done!

[neweruser69]

Spencer vs Higuchi is a great style matchup.

I would favor Higuchi if this was their second meeting, as he will be able to get to Spencer's legs with his quickness.

However, these international guys have a real tough time with Spencer's strength, and if he can stop Rei in a position to lock in any turn, I think he will end the match. 

Abdullaev's face was priceless during the semi, had a whole "what the hell is this guy" vibe to it. 

[bnwtwg]

Two things being lost in this bitch-fest

1) Brooks is still wrestling for a bronze in his first international appearance.

2) He saw that god is a cruel spirit (Ram Of The East < Eastern Orthodox) and dug deep on his own to find the balls to not turn over in that bent-leg turk. Brooks was tough as hell in that moment.

[Wrestleknownothing]

1 minute ago, bnwtwg said:

Two things being lost in this bitch-fest

1) Brooks is still wrestling for a bronze in his first international appearance.

2) He saw that god is a cruel spirit (Ram Of The East < Eastern Orthodox) and dug deep on his own to find the balls to not turn over in that bent-leg turk. Brooks was tough as hell in that moment.

Everyone wants to be the next Stephen A. Smith. I would be ok with one less rather than one more.

[Voice of the Quakers]

5 minutes ago, alliseeisgold said:

I believe end of match freestyle prep should take up maybe 50 percent or more of practice time. Euros just kills us there. 

Lee, Brooks and Maroulis all smartly took end of match penalties in earlier matches today while leading. I think this perspective on late match tactics may be more anecdotal than actual.

[Doublehalf]

I naively went into this afternoon session thinking we were going to punch all 3 into the finals...

Always blows my mind how good our athletes are domestically when I think about their training opportunities, workout partners, coaches and the team of people around them... makes me think no one in the world has that kind of support and then along comes a Bulgarian or whoever and I'm always put back into my place of just how good the rest of the world can be and how hard the Olympics actually are...

[alliseeisgold]

11 minutes ago, Voice of the Quakers said:

Lee, Brooks and Maroulis all smartly took end of match penalties in earlier matches today while leading. I think this perspective on late match tactics may be more anecdotal than actual.

It's like in basketball fouling up 3 to not even let a 3 point attempt.

In wrestling now how do you protect a lead late ? Don't allow underhooks.

Well how bout not shooting to put yourself in a position to be crotch lifted.

And then once there maybe some awareness of it so you don't just try to win NCAAs on a leg from the ref.

In the moment I thought that was a great great move by uguev. Now i view it as way easier then hitting a single leg. Brooks looked even more uncomfortable then gilman there. 

Id be curious what the stats are of USA hanging on to positions late vs Russians.

Edited August 8 by alliseeisgold

[Gus]

30 minutes ago, TylerDurden said:

Did Brooks date you sister? 

Jake Herbert? Andy Hrovat? GTFO

Herbert is a 2X NCAA champ with a 149-4 career record and a world silver medalist so not exactly a complete dud. He was one controversial call away from an olympic medal also.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

12 minutes ago, Voice of the Quakers said:

Lee, Brooks and Maroulis all smartly took end of match penalties in earlier matches today while leading. I think this perspective on late match tactics may be more anecdotal than actual.

Yes, I’d say 50% is a bit too much. 

[alliseeisgold]

I promise you all the Russians are at home right now laughing at the brooks match and at USA coaching for those tactics.  

 

[Gus]

26 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

I don’t think “selling out on the stalemate” with only a few seconds left was the wrong decision.  I’m more surprised he took that bad shot that got him into that position.

I could be misremembering but wasn't he snapped into a bad position and just kind of caught the foot and hung on for dear life?

[bnwtwg]

1 minute ago, alliseeisgold said:

I promise you all the Russians are at home right now laughing at the brooks match and at USA coaching for those tactics.  

 

idk what you're talking about i saw some of them in today's bracket at 86

[Doublehalf]

1 minute ago, alliseeisgold said:

I promise you all the Russians are at home right now laughing at the brooks match and at USA coaching for those tactics.  

 

Only nice thing about this is that they are at home... I'd rather them laughing at home than watching them beat any of our guys this week... and yes I know the Bulgarian is essentially a Russian but you get my drift 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

7 minutes ago, Doublehalf said:

Only nice thing about this is that they are at home... I'd rather them laughing at home than watching them beat any of our guys this week... and yes I know the Bulgarian is essentially a Russian but you get my drift 

Yes. Possibly better Russians in that bracket than Russia would have brought. 

[billyhoyle]

16 minutes ago, Gus said:

Herbert is a 2X NCAA champ with a 149-4 career record and a world silver medalist so not exactly a complete dud. He was one controversial call away from an olympic medal also.

Yeah I didn’t mean that as an insult to Brooks. Just a recalibration of the level that he is on. They are great US wrestlers. Herbert made the semifinals of the Olympics as well (and Russia was there).
 

I saw his three matches as disappointing because I was comparing him to the guy we sent the past 4 years (who he beat). But others have highlighted that it’s comparable to his prior results. 

Edited August 8 by billyhoyle

[BuckyBadger]

I think the issue with Brooks is he didn’t do a lot of international tournaments prior to the Olympics. Remember when Taylor arrived on the freestyle scene it took him a while to adjust before he became what he has been the last 5years or so.

I’m always a bit worried about a guy that is so new on the scene and the Olympics are their first major senior level tournament. Simply having been there before counts for a lot on the big stage.