Gilman and 57

[mspart]

I like Gilman.  He has been good for the US at 57.   But I'm thinking he is much older, tougher for  him to cut weight.   If he goes 57, which I think is a no brainer for him because he hasn't done well at 65, I think he will not have stamina.   He may not get out of the first round.  

Now saying that, he will probably face S Lee in the finals.   Or Zane.   And that would be fantastic.   But I'm thinking sucking that much weight will suck the energy right out of him.    He has a Oly bronze, a Worlds gold, and two Worlds Silvers.    He accomplished but I think this might be too much for him.   I would love him to prove me wrong.  

I think this is Spencer Lee's to lose. 

mspart

[Tyler]

I really agree with what you’ve said. A healthy Spencer would be tough to beat. Though some of the recent interviews I’ve seen with Spencer, he looks sucked down 

[nhs67]

2 hours ago, mspart said:

I like Gilman.  He has been good for the US at 57.   But I'm thinking he is much older, tougher for  him to cut weight.   If he goes 57, which I think is a no brainer for him because he hasn't done well at 65, I think he will not have stamina.   He may not get out of the first round.  

Now saying that, he will probably face S Lee in the finals.   Or Zane.   And that would be fantastic.   But I'm thinking sucking that much weight will suck the energy right out of him.    He has a Oly bronze, a Worlds gold, and two Worlds Silvers.    He accomplished but I think this might be too much for him.   I would love him to prove me wrong.  

I think this is Spencer Lee's to lose. 

mspart

I think you meant 61 KG here.

It is true, too.  It's because he us a 57 KG.  He might be big, but he isn't built for any other weight class.

Furthermore he is still our best bet to medal at 57 KG. 

If gas tank is the concern, then you should be more concerned about Lee's as he yet to prove he has one against Worlds level competition and has gassed against lesser folks.

Gilman on the other hands has gassed quite a few Worlds medalists the last few years.

[Truzzcat]

I am still holding out hope that Vito can get healthy and get his weight down in a month but that seems rather far fetched at this point. There was a time where daton vs Gillman was seemingly a coin flip so perhaps Daton could be our guy too.

[bnwtwg]

5 hours ago, mspart said:

I like Gilman.  He has been good for the US at 57.   But I'm thinking he is much older, tougher for  him to cut weight.

Zane Richards is the same age and he beat Gilman twice at the same weight. Maybe Gilman can't make 57 effectively finally because that weight is ruthlessly awful. That's why he didn't even challenge for Pan Ams after Richards took him out two matches in a row.

3 hours ago, nhs67 said:

I think you meant 61 KG here.

It is true, too.  It's because he us a 57 KG.  He might be big, but he isn't built for any other weight class.

Furthermore he is still our best bet to medal at 57 KG. 

Spencer Lee didn't leave town, and for all the genuine good it did for Gilman (and everyone) to get out of Iowa City, he didn't do it on his own volition. Gilman is not our best bet to medal because Father Time is undefeated.

[lisa morales]

Zane Richards and Spencer Lee are both afflicted with premature baldness.  

[nhs67]

6 hours ago, bnwtwg said:

Zane Richards is the same age and he beat Gilman twice at the same weight. Maybe Gilman can't make 57 effectively finally because that weight is ruthlessly awful. That's why he didn't even challenge for Pan Ams after Richards took him out two matches in a row.

Spencer Lee didn't leave town, and for all the genuine good it did for Gilman (and everyone) to get out of Iowa City, he didn't do it on his own volition. Gilman is not our best bet to medal because Father Time is undefeated.

All valid points, obviously.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

My thoughts:

Gilman's best days at 57  seem to be behind him:

- openly talked about how he lets his weight get much higher now than he did at HWC, and feels that was a reason for improvement

- Has talked about going up weights

- Has registered for tournaments at 61 kg (did he show up to any of them)

- Rarely makes 57 anymore.  Has made it once in the last 19 months and has lost his last three matches there.

- Looked diminished at 23 WTT

- Did not challenge Richards for the spot

- Trashed Yianni on the twitter machine

- Has a newborn, that allegedly has hurt preparation

 

As for Spencer's prospects, I'm not sure if he is our "best' threat to medal, but gassing worries me a bit less against international competition for freestyle.  Granted Micic, Mongolia, and Japan prob have pretty good tanks.

I'd be a bit concerned about both Vito and Fix being anywhere near full strength at 57, and extremely concerned about Vito's health. 

I'd like to see Lee do well, but I'm happy with whomever wins trials as long as they qualify the weight and medal.  Except maybe Fix.

Edited March 21 by Interviewed_at_Weehawken

[wrestle87]

Anybody who watched NCAA's this weekend is feeling a lot better about Vito.

[nhs67]

20 minutes ago, wrestle87 said:

Anybody who watched NCAA's this weekend is feeling a lot better about Vito.

I am not feeling any sort of thing about Vito.

The guy has a herniated disc.

Now he is going to cut ~10lbs off a very lean physique for the first time in two years and be 'that' guy with a herniated disc?

I doubt it.

[CHROMEBIRD]

I'd feel a lot better about Vito if 61kg was an Oly weight

[bnwtwg]

2 hours ago, nhs67 said:

I am not feeling any sort of thing about Vito.

The guy has a herniated disc.

Now he is going to cut ~10lbs off a very lean physique for the first time in two years and be 'that' guy with a herniated disc?

I doubt it.

Toradol had a great showing this weekend and will make another appearance next month 

Edited March 24 by bnwtwg

[lu_alum]

Spencer Lee

[Spladle08]

The demise of Gilman has been greatly exaggerated.

Obviously 57kg is impossible to predict but aside from completely sh*tting the bed against Richards, what are yall basing this on? Dude is a terror vs international opponents, just seems built for the weight. 
Whoever we send is going to do great but I don't doubt Gilman vs anyone in the bracket. 

[nhs67]

30 minutes ago, Spladle08 said:

The demise of Gilman has been greatly exaggerated.

Obviously 57kg is impossible to predict but aside from completely sh*tting the bed against Richards, what are yall basing this on? Dude is a terror vs international opponents, just seems built for the weight. 
Whoever we send is going to do great but I don't doubt Gilman vs anyone in the bracket. 

He hasn't successfully made 57 KG in years, since he won his Worlds title.  Even at the tournaments he has entered overseas they were either with a +2 KG (which is ~4.5lbs) or at 61 KG (which he has had zero - yes zero - success).

I don't think he is done, I just understand where they are coming from.  My opinion on the matter is based off his past, whereas other's opinions are based off his body of work since his title.  Both sides have merit, but only one gets weaker as more time passes (mine).

[Spladle08]

1 minute ago, nhs67 said:

He hasn't successfully made 57 KG in years, since he won his Worlds title.  Even at the tournaments he has entered overseas they were either with a +2 KG (which is ~4.5lbs) or at 61 KG (which he has had zero - yes zero - success).

I don't think he is done, I just understand where they are coming from.  My opinion on the matter is based off his past, whereas other's opinions are based off his body of work since his title.  Both sides have merit, but only one gets weaker as more time passes (mine).

I thought he took 2nd at worlds the year before Richards went.... let me look this up . Yeah 2022 when he lost to Abakarov. Oh then Pan Ams in 23, was there an allowance there?
I don't know man, I feel like he is reaching the end of his run and this might be his last rodeo. I just can't see him letting the scale be an issue. Dude is consistently at the top domestically. I don't think anything has changed, but I'm fully aware anyone can be beaten with our stable of 57kg monsters. 

[nhs67]

11 minutes ago, Spladle08 said:

I thought he took 2nd at worlds the year before Richards went.... let me look this up . Yeah 2022 when he lost to Abakarov. Oh then Pan Ams in 23, was there an allowance there?
I don't know man, I feel like he is reaching the end of his run and this might be his last rodeo. I just can't see him letting the scale be an issue. Dude is consistently at the top domestically. I don't think anything has changed, but I'm fully aware anyone can be beaten with our stable of 57kg monsters. 

You are correct, my thinking was backwards.  I also think he did win Pan Ams after he got 2nd.

That said, he beat Cruz for gold or something, so that isn't/wasn't saying much (at the time).

Each time he has gone 61 KG he has lost to guys he wouldn't lose to at 57 KG, though, and the ranking series tournaments he has been to are at 57 KG +2.  So he hasn't really made 57 KG too much and he is on the wrong side of 30 KG to be taking breaks like that.

[wrestle87]

It is not ridiculous to think that Gilman could have entered his own version of James Green territory.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

21 hours ago, nhs67 said:

I am not feeling any sort of thing about Vito.

The guy has a herniated disc.

Now he is going to cut ~10lbs off a very lean physique for the first time in two years and be 'that' guy with a herniated disc?

I doubt it.

And last time he made that cut, he went 1-2 at an age group tournament.

[lu1979]

On 3/20/2024 at 6:02 PM, mspart said:

I like Gilman.  He has been good for the US at 57.   But I'm thinking he is much older, tougher for  him to cut weight.   If he goes 57, which I think is a no brainer for him because he hasn't done well at 65, I think he will not have stamina.   He may not get out of the first round.  

Now saying that, he will probably face S Lee in the finals.   Or Zane.   And that would be fantastic.   But I'm thinking sucking that much weight will suck the energy right out of him.    He has a Oly bronze, a Worlds gold, and two Worlds Silvers.    He accomplished but I think this might be too much for him.   I would love him to prove me wrong.  

I think this is Spencer Lee's to lose. 

mspart

I disagree - I think Vito is the best bet in what is a wide open weight.  I think he gets the spot and qualifies us at Last Chance.

[de4856]

On 3/20/2024 at 3:02 PM, mspart said:

I like Gilman.  He has been good for the US at 57.   But I'm thinking he is much older, tougher for  him to cut weight.   If he goes 57, which I think is a no brainer for him because he hasn't done well at 65, I think he will not have stamina.   He may not get out of the first round.  

Now saying that, he will probably face S Lee in the finals.   Or Zane.   And that would be fantastic.   But I'm thinking sucking that much weight will suck the energy right out of him.    He has a Oly bronze, a Worlds gold, and two Worlds Silvers.    He accomplished but I think this might be too much for him.   I would love him to prove me wrong.  

I think this is Spencer Lee's to lose. 

mspart

I agree 

[mspart]

There are a lot of hammers at 57kg.   Tough to really predict who will be the Trials winner.

mspart

[JeanGuy]

The trials are only the small part. Win that and then the work begins.