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It should be obvious by now that Biden could care less about the border.   He just doesn't want it to become a campaign issue.  Well he is just too late for that.  It is a major campaign issue.   He created this and will suffer because of this.  

mspart

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To the Demopraphic party.

Why do you support a party that is shuffling in millions of illegal immigrants to manipulate power in the House of Representatives?  This is the party that wanted to treat slaves as property for taxation purposes while treating slaves as population for determining the House of Representatives. More population meant more representatives and thus more political power.  This is the party that cares so much about people that they advocate for illegal immigrants as the people who do the work that nobody else wants to.  Echoes of the past.  The Dems are wrongheaded on illegal immigration.

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30 minutes ago, jross said:

To the Demopraphic party.

Why do you support a party that is shuffling in millions of illegal immigrants to manipulate power in the House of Representatives?  This is the party that wanted to treat slaves as property for taxation purposes while treating slaves as population for determining the House of Representatives. More population meant more representatives and thus more political power.  This is the party that cares so much about people that they advocate for illegal immigrants as the people who do the work that nobody else wants to.  Echoes of the past.  The Dems are wrongheaded on illegal immigration.

You do not have a crystal ball to see into someone's motivations. The tactic of, 'its just common sense' doesn't work here. If you had evidence of what you claim, you would post it here. Since you didn't, I'll assume as you did(but with way more evidence), that you don't. Please prove me wrong?

Evidence of the taxation thing for which you claim? Who said what? What were some other characteristics of that group? Do can you see a parallel between them and a political party today? (Hint: modern republicans, they are more like modern republicans than democrats, and I would hope that you knew that despite your best effort to convince me otherwise)

Who advocates, which legitimate decision maker advocates for that position? I know a bunch of maga-morons make the claim and others repeat it like they need a cracker. Show the evidence. You aren't very good at this. Make it tougher to shoot your crackpot-theory down. I don't even have to disagree. I just have to ask where your information comes from. Then you don't offer it because it doesn't exist. 

'Echoes of the past' interesting choice of words. Who wants an ethnocratic state? (hint: Marjorie Taylor Greene spoke at an event led by a white nationalist and has no regrets) Who wants a theocracy? (hint: MTG, “I also call myself a Christian nationalist — and that’s not a bad word.”)

Was it irony or a pun that you used, 'Echoes of the past'? Cuz you're hilarious if it was one or ignorant/malicious if the other. Care to pick?

And yes, conservatives in this country have changed the name of their organization a few times. They did some horrible things to people and this country through those people. Repeat, conservatives! Republicans today are not the party of Lincoln, even though they'd probably get along because he was pretty racist too. But he put country first, that's the big difference. 

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But they're going to say, 'she doesn't represent everyone in the party.' 

Not understanding that just about every argument, presented by supporters of her party on this forum, has hinged on a small % of a population doing a thing. A thing we can all agree to, is bad. But then the entire group is maligned because of the actions of said few. Live by it, die by it. Or just give it up because it isn't a very good way of making your point. 

But then how are we suppose to advocate for keeping migrants out of this country if we can't point to a few people doing bad things? (hint: go yell at clouds, cuz its what you're doing anyway)

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6 minutes ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

But then how are we suppose to advocate for keeping migrants out of this country if we can't point to a few people doing bad things? (hint: go yell at clouds, cuz its what you're doing anyway)

The distinction that you are making here is between legal migrants and illegal migrants.   You want to believe that all people coming to the US are legal migrants or just migrants, but that is not the actual case.   The difference is between those that came with the express good wishes of US Law and those that didn't.   No one wants to keep legal migrants out of the country.  Immigration laws already account for these people.     Most everyone wants to keep illegal migrants out of the country. 

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/03/07/state-of-the-union-2024-where-americans-stand-on-the-economy-immigration-and-other-key-issues/

image.thumb.png.e881333b535546b8e99cc3871e1d6ee1.png

It can be easily argued that the yellow box and the red arrows are greatly related.   Reduce illegal immigration, you will reduce crime.   Maybe just a little but it will reduce it.  Without so many kids in the schools, education will improve.  Without so many illegal migrants using hte health care system, that will reduce health care costs.  And closing the border will reduce the danger of terrorism.   Many terrorists have been caught.   How many haven't been caught with this porous border?   Reducing illegal drugs is a big issue.   Closing the border would help with this. 

Your position is not based on any fact, law or common sense.   You deny there is common sense so you are against facts and the law.   I  rebut you on this, but with no hope that you will read this or actually admit your error.   You will just keep on posting your erroneous emotional diatribes here that have nothing to do with fact and law (or common sense for that matter).   To continually do so is proof of your empty rhetoric. 

mspart

 

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nationalism

noun

na·tion·al·ism ˈna-sh(ə-)nə-ˌli-zəm 

Synonyms of nationalism

1

: loyalty and devotion to a nationespecially  : a sense of national consciousness (see CONSCIOUSNESS sense 1c) exalting one nation above all others and placing primary emphasis on promotion of its culture and interests as opposed to those of other nations or supranational groups 

Intense nationalism was one of the causes of the war. 

2

: a nationalist movement or government
 

What is wrong with that?

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5 hours ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

Blah

Look up the 3/5 compromise.  Which party supported slavery more?

Which party is bringing in illegal immigrants like never before?

What is the obvious reason in both cases?  Power.

Have you heard the common justification for illegal immigrants that they do the harder work for less money?

What did President Johnson say about getting votes for the next 200 years?

Which party has held back families through government welfare?

The answer is what it is.  

The demographic party can what about… but the answer is what it is.

Great on some topics; bad on illegal immigration and prosper from those most in need.

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It’s so hard to follow ThreePoint’s ramblings, but a common theme I see among his peers is “show me the evidence.” Unfortunately the majority of Americans have lost faith that our intelligence apparatus and justice system are unbiased and effective.

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16 hours ago, mspart said:

The distinction that you are making here is between legal migrants and illegal migrants.   You want to believe that all people coming to the US are legal migrants or just migrants, but that is not the actual case.   The difference is between those that came with the express good wishes of US Law and those that didn't.   No one wants to keep legal migrants out of the country.  Immigration laws already account for these people.     Most everyone wants to keep illegal migrants out of the country. 

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/03/07/state-of-the-union-2024-where-americans-stand-on-the-economy-immigration-and-other-key-issues/

image.thumb.png.e881333b535546b8e99cc3871e1d6ee1.png

It can be easily argued that the yellow box and the red arrows are greatly related.   Reduce illegal immigration, you will reduce crime.   Maybe just a little but it will reduce it.  Without so many kids in the schools, education will improve.  Without so many illegal migrants using hte health care system, that will reduce health care costs.  And closing the border will reduce the danger of terrorism.   Many terrorists have been caught.   How many haven't been caught with this porous border?   Reducing illegal drugs is a big issue.   Closing the border would help with this. 

Your position is not based on any fact, law or common sense.   You deny there is common sense so you are against facts and the law.   I  rebut you on this, but with no hope that you will read this or actually admit your error.   You will just keep on posting your erroneous emotional diatribes here that have nothing to do with fact and law (or common sense for that matter).   To continually do so is proof of your empty rhetoric. 

mspart

 

'Your position is not based on any fact, law or common sense.   You deny there is common sense so you are against facts and the law.   I  rebut you on this, but with no hope that you will read this or actually admit your error.   You will just keep on posting your erroneous emotional diatribes here that have nothing to do with fact and law (or common sense for that matter).   To continually do so is proof of your empty rhetoric.'

My position, which I will state again, is that every example of documented or undocumented immigrants behaving badly is not representative of the whole. I trust you know that. What % of the whole? We don't know, but typically, its lower. From the Cato Institute: The results are similar to our other work on illegal immigration and crime in Texas. In 2018, the illegal immigrant criminal conviction rate was 782 per 100,000 illegal immigrants, 535 per 100,000 legal immigrants, and 1,422 per 100,000 native‐born Americans.  (See that?)

I do deny common sense, but the rest of your sentence show the lack of any sense whatsoever. I would love to see you connect those terms with a coherent sentence or thought. You haven't pointed out an error just a misunderstanding of reason. 

If you can show that because I deny that common sense is an actual thing that we all share, that I am against facts and the law, I would happily admit that I was wrong? I await your response to this gambit. I'll bet you won't even try. And make up some excuse, 'You won't admit it so why would I put in the effort. I have a connection but she goes to another school and you don't know her, but the connection totally exists!' 

I'm sorry you've never experienced the challenging of your ideas to this extent. It must be jarring. Its a shame. You should embrace the fact that someone is trying to help you become stronger in your thinking rather than making excuses why you don't need to work to prove anything. These are typical tactics of a lazy thinker. Do some research of arguing and discussing. Look for common deflection tactics and fallacies. You'll find plenty that you've used in our history. 

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1 hour ago, ThreePointTakedown said:

'Your position is not based on any fact, law or common sense.   You deny there is common sense so you are against facts and the law.   I  rebut you on this, but with no hope that you will read this or actually admit your error.   You will just keep on posting your erroneous emotional diatribes here that have nothing to do with fact and law (or common sense for that matter).   To continually do so is proof of your empty rhetoric.'

My position, which I will state again, is that every example of documented or undocumented immigrants behaving badly is not representative of the whole. I trust you know that. What % of the whole? We don't know, but typically, its lower. From the Cato Institute: The results are similar to our other work on illegal immigration and crime in Texas. In 2018, the illegal immigrant criminal conviction rate was 782 per 100,000 illegal immigrants, 535 per 100,000 legal immigrants, and 1,422 per 100,000 native‐born Americans.  (See that?)

I do deny common sense, but the rest of your sentence show the lack of any sense whatsoever. I would love to see you connect those terms with a coherent sentence or thought. You haven't pointed out an error just a misunderstanding of reason. 

If you can show that because I deny that common sense is an actual thing that we all share, that I am against facts and the law, I would happily admit that I was wrong? I await your response to this gambit. I'll bet you won't even try. And make up some excuse, 'You won't admit it so why would I put in the effort. I have a connection but she goes to another school and you don't know her, but the connection totally exists!' 

I'm sorry you've never experienced the challenging of your ideas to this extent. It must be jarring. Its a shame. You should embrace the fact that someone is trying to help you become stronger in your thinking rather than making excuses why you don't need to work to prove anything. These are typical tactics of a lazy thinker. Do some research of arguing and discussing. Look for common deflection tactics and fallacies. You'll find plenty that you've used in our history. 

I can't believe you even type this b.s....LOOK IN THE MIRROW whackadoodle!!  Have some freakin self reflection!  You admittedly don't have any common sense, but take a step back and read what you actually accuse people of based on NO FACTS other than the stuff you make up in your head.  Then you try and lecture people on it...crazy!!

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cite any 'study' you wish to say that illegal immigrants committing crime is anecdotal and a lower rate.

who in their right mind believes that? every day there are new, verified stories.

horrific stories.

one is too F'ING many.

maybe you missed the F'Ing 'illegal' part of 'illegal immigrants'.

or maybe you won't totally understand until it happens to someone you know.

but i doubt that would even make a dent in your woke ass beetle brain.

frankly, i think society, college (and perhaps your parents) failed to instill values in you.

and i wish you'd go away. no one likes you here and you smell. 

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27 minutes ago, Bigbrog said:

I can't believe you even type this b.s....LOOK IN THE MIRROW whackadoodle!!  Have some freakin self reflection!  You admittedly don't have any common sense, but take a step back and read what you actually accuse people of based on NO FACTS other than the stuff you make up in your head.  Then you try and lecture people on it...crazy!!

Here's where your emotions betray you. People who do not get their opinions questioned regularly tend to react negatively. As if they are being attacked. (see above for example). 

Calling into question the one thing you've hinged your argument on, common sense(the idea that we all have shared experience and knowledge that allows us all to have common truth). Sorry but we don't all have the cognitive ability or experience to reason things out the same way. We just don't. In calling out your logical fallacies has not stopped you from continuing to use them or lashing out when reminded. Sorry I do not play along so you can feel warm and cozy in your argument. 

Lets be clear, there is chance albeit a small one that you are correct in your points. I don't believe you are but maybe I'm wrong. I'm pointing out that the way you are getting to your conclusions is faulty. That you may be correct is circumstantial at best and you should be working to hone your method. Lets bring it back to wrestling for a second. That a technique works in one situation of one match does not mean it will work in that or any other situation forever. Best to try it again in that situation to test its efficacy. Then in other situations. If it works, great. If not, uh oh! Gonna need to try something else.

What I see is someone that has used the same form of a bad argument and your opponents have either let you win because they agree with you already and don't care to rock the boat or they aren't committed enough to point it out because it would probably lead to whining and crying and name calling and whackadoo remarks. All those indicate is your inability to cope with the tiniest bit of friction. 

Asking you to clarify  your points or statements or provide better evidence is not something you are use to in your life, I guess. Not instantly agreeing with you makes you feel attacked. The 4 or 5 other, like minded posters don't hesitate to pile on if when they can. In hopes of stymying an agitator in their midst. But you can't. 

Every time you post something ridiculous. I will simply ask you for more or better evidence to prove your point, if it is not to my satisfaction. If that hurts deep in your feels, sorry not sorry. 

13 hours ago, jross said:

 

Look up the 3/5 compromise.  Which party supported slavery more?

Which party is bringing in illegal immigrants like never before?

What is the obvious reason in both cases?  Power.

Have you heard the common justification for illegal immigrants that they do the harder work for less money?

What did President Johnson say about getting votes for the next 200 years?

Which party has held back families through government welfare?

The answer is what it is.  

The demographic party can what about… but the answer is what it is.

Great on some topics; bad on illegal immigration and prosper from those most in need.

Federalists and Democratic-Republicans were the parties of the day. Including the Whigs. Which party that still survives today was included in the discussion over that clause?

Neither party is 'bringing' in undocumented migrants. If you believe that I would be very interested to see you evidence for undocumented people being brought in by a government entity for the purpose that you claim. 

You haven't proven either case so this question makes no sense. 

I have heard that bring document foreign labor into certain fields is a benefit to that field, yes. 

Which President Johnson? One was a slave owner the other signed the Civil Rights Act. Would be interested to see you justify why we should believe anything that one of those should have to say about 3/5th or undocumented immigrants. 

Prove that welfare holds people/families back? Remember, common sense is no longer a useable tactic. Try data and evidence. Resist the urge to make a vague point in the form of a question. Because I have not made a claim that needs to be proven. Its all on you. 

You have offered no answers with your questions. Just that you don't have answers to these questions. 

I understand your anger at the mountain you must climb to prove any of your points. I don't envy you. But you still have a long way to go. Best of luck. 

 

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5 minutes ago, Husker_Du said:

cite any 'study' you wish to say that illegal immigrants committing crime is anecdotal and a lower rate.

who in their right mind believes that? every day there are new, verified stories.

horrific stories.

one is too F'ING many.

maybe you missed the F'Ing 'illegal' part of 'illegal immigrants'.

or maybe you won't totally understand until it happens to someone you know.

but i doubt that would even make a dent in your woke ass beetle brain.

frankly, i think society, college (and perhaps your parents) failed to instill values in you.

and i wish you'd go away. no one likes you here and you smell. 

Rent free is the way to be. 

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16 hours ago, jross said:

MTG is a non-observant Christian by action.  

So she gets a pass? That's convenient. 

Why is it one instance does not paint the whole group in a negative light? 

Because you arbitrarily excuse her, having no information of her affiliation? 

How is that, in any way, honest or ethical? 

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how clinically insane do you have to be to equate 1 politicians WORDS

with the insane crisis and action that is going on with illegal immigrants.

go back to grad school and get another degree in south american pottery ya nut bag. 

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11 hours ago, headshuck said:

It’s so hard to follow ThreePoint’s ramblings, but a common theme I see among his peers is “show me the evidence.” Unfortunately the majority of Americans have lost faith that our intelligence apparatus and justice system are unbiased and effective.

So you're right or have a better chance of being right because the information we get is not reliable? 

You heard it, right? 

You're correct because there is no way to be correct. Talk about ramblings. 

And yes, I am on the side of evidence and things that can be interpreted with as little subjectivity as possible. Can we be wrong? Yes. But we work to be better. Not just cast it off because it doesn't claim truth from the start. One side is anti science, anti education, and pro religion. All things that rely on a voting block with little understanding or reasoning skills. The same people that don't have control of their emotions and tend to get riled up when questioned even a little bit. Reminds me of some people here. 

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