Did Starocci duck Griffith?

[ionel]

1 hour ago, fishbane said:

According to Starocci it was a combination of health complications and leveling up in life that kept him off the mat last night.

Is an unlevel life now considered an injury thus no duck?

 

[1032004]

53 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Thank you for making my point.

Edsell was scheduled to wrestle but failed the skin check. Rasheed was recovering from knee surgery.

I apologize, I misremembered that one.  I thought Rasheed had already wrestled that season but apparently not (and didn’t for awhile after that).  So that one wasn’t a duck, and honestly Cael rarely does.  (And I also should clarify that it’s the coach doing the ducking, not the wrestler).

There have been plenty of other actual ducks just this season though.  I’m trying to remember the clip, but I’m pretty sure at least one coach even admitted to it.

[1032004]

Found it

On 12/1/2023 at 8:50 AM, 1032004 said:

Coach Clemsen admits he's thinking about seeding at NCAA's when deciding who wrestles at CKLV

 

 

[fishbane]

1 hour ago, Hammerlock3 said:

For those who think we are claiming sheer cowardice when we say they might have ducked griffith, thats not how it is. 

At this level, where everything will be forgotten after march, Cael may have decided its stupid to give a dangerous guy like Griffith 3 feels on starocci. I don't care if you don't think thats the case in this instance, but all these guys think like this and they all do it on occasion. 

The only other time I can think of a PSU wrestler missing a big match this season was in the Lehigh dual where Brooks didn't wrestle Michael Beard.  At the time some people speculated Brooks skipped because he was wrestling in Senior Nationals/Olympic Trials Qualifier a week or so after that and focusing on freestyle.  That ultimately didn't happen (Brooks didn't enter Senior Nationals) and I don't recall any alternative explanations like injury.  I don't think the too many feels angle would be relevant for Beard, since being a former teammate, he likely wasn't lacking feels.

[Hammerlock3]

22 minutes ago, fishbane said:

The only other time I can think of a PSU wrestler missing a big match this season was in the Lehigh dual where Brooks didn't wrestle Michael Beard.  At the time some people speculated Brooks skipped because he was wrestling in Senior Nationals/Olympic Trials Qualifier a week or so after that and focusing on freestyle.  That ultimately didn't happen (Brooks didn't enter Senior Nationals) and I don't recall any alternative explanations like injury.  I don't think the too many feels angle would be relevant for Beard, since being a former teammate, he likely wasn't lacking feels.

they haven't wrestled in years, and I don't think the PSU coaches if they came to that fork in the road would say "screw it they used to practice together".

But that doesn't matter, i never pressed a specific instance, i refused to, I'm just saying this happens and PSU isn't immune.

[D3 for LU]

fishbane sez...

The only other time I can think of a PSU wrestler missing a big match this season was in the Lehigh dual where Brooks didn't wrestle Michael Beard.  At the time some people speculated Brooks skipped because he was wrestling in Senior Nationals/Olympic Trials Qualifier a week or so after that and focusing on freestyle.  That ultimately didn't happen (Brooks didn't enter Senior Nationals) and I don't recall any alternative explanations like injury.  I don't think the too many feels angle would be relevant for Beard, since being a former teammate, he likely wasn't lacking feels.

So... you are sayin' that no one here is copping a feel ? 

 

 

 

D3

Edited January 20 by D3 for LU

[buckshot]

The only thing more stupid than starting this thread is agreeing with it. 

[Pinnacle]

3 minutes ago, buckshot said:

The only thing more stupid than starting this thread is agreeing with it. 

It's a bird, it's a plane, it's Connabon.

[jchapman]

4 hours ago, 1032004 said:

Shakur Rasheed ducked Zahid, which gave Cael one of his 2 losses since 2015

He also forfeited a B1G Championship match (was it a healthy default, I can’t quite remember).

Edited January 21 by jchapman

[Wrestleknownothing]

15 minutes ago, jchapman said:

He also forfeited a B1G Championship match (was it a healthy default, I can’t quite remember).

Poor use of the word "also" given that 1032004 already admitted he was wrong. And Rasheed forfeited during the match at the end of the first period due to injury. Not a healthy default at all. The opposite.

This is exactly what I am talking about. Everyone thinks everything is a duck. But when challenged two different guys come up with two different examples. Examples of them being 100% wrong. 

But, everything is a duck. No one gets injured in a sport where everyone gets injured. No one gets sick.

Lazy.

[ionel]

12 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Poor use of the word "also" given that 1032004 already admitted he was wrong. And Rasheed forfeited during the match at the end of the first period due to injury. Not a healthy default at all. The opposite.

This is exactly what I am talking about. Everyone thinks everything is a duck. But when challenged two different guys come up with two different examples. Examples of them being 100% wrong. 

But, everything is a duck. No one gets injured in a sport where everyone gets injured. No one gets sick.

Lazy.

But what is a "duck?"  We had established a definition on the other forum, maybe someone can retrieve the archive ... oh Bob?  Do we need to start all over and argue whether a duck can even exist.  If its ducks vs pinfalls, I say we have actually seen ducks.  

[jchapman]

36 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Poor use of the word "also" given that 1032004 already admitted he was wrong. And Rasheed forfeited during the match at the end of the first period due to injury. Not a healthy default at all. The opposite.

This is exactly what I am talking about. Everyone thinks everything is a duck. But when challenged two different guys come up with two different examples. Examples of them being 100% wrong. 

But, everything is a duck. No one gets injured in a sport where everyone gets injured. No one gets sick.

Lazy.

Incorrect. You are 100% wrong. He never set foot on the mat for the championship match.  It was a medical forfeit and no loss went on his record.

Lazy.

Edited January 21 by jchapman

[Wrestleknownothing]

3 minutes ago, jchapman said:

Incorrect.  He never set foot on the mat for the championship match.

Lazy.

Forfeiting a final is not a duck. It in no way preserves a seed. It hurts a seed. You conveniently foget that he tore his ACL mid season that year, which is why Franco Bisono wrestled some of the duals at 184. Load management is a thing for a torn ACL. All this info is available. So, yes, lazy.

[Wrestleknownothing]

25 minutes ago, ionel said:

But what is a "duck?"  We had established a definition on the other forum, maybe someone can retrieve the archive ... oh Bob?  Do we need to start all over and argue whether a duck can even exist.  If its ducks vs pinfalls, I say we have actually seen ducks.  

So far all we know is what a duck is not based on the examples provided.

[jchapman]

7 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Forfeiting a final is not a duck. It in no way preserves a seed. It hurts a seed. You conveniently foget that he tore his ACL mid season that year, which is why Franco Bisono wrestled some of the duals at 184. Load management is a thing for a torn ACL. All this info is available. So, yes, lazy.

Try again.  He wrestled the semifinals and wrestled in the NCAA tournament.  That is a duck.

Please provide video of him wrestling in the 2019 B1G Finals like you claim he did.  You said all this information is available, so please provide it.

Edited January 21 by jchapman

[Wrestleknownothing]

2 minutes ago, jchapman said:

Try again.  He wrestled the semifinals and wrestled in the NCAA tournament.  That is a duck.

Please provide video of him wrestling in the 2019 B1G Finals like you claim he did.  

I did not claim he wrestled in the 2019 final. You did not specify the year until your follow up post. He stepped on the mat in 2020 and forfeited after the first period.

Not wrestling an un-needed match, that hurts your seed, because you have a torn ACL is not a duck. You are just wanting to redefine it so you won't be wrong. But you are wrong.

[jchapman]

3 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

I did not claim he wrestled in the 2019 final. You did not specify the year until your follow up post. He stepped on the mat in 2020 and forfeited after the first period.

Not wrestling an un-needed match, that hurts your seed, because you have a torn ACL is not a duck. You are just wanting to redefine it so you won't be wrong. But you are wrong.

Why did you say I was 100% wrong?You didn’t want to consider the 2019 Final, only the 2020 final?
 

Skipping one match only, against a highly ranked wrestler, is a duck.

Edited January 21 by jchapman

[Wrestleknownothing]

2 minutes ago, jchapman said:

Skipping one match only, against a highly ranked wrestler, is a duck.

When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

[jchapman]

2 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

When you are lazy, eveyone else appears lazy.

[fishbane]

2 hours ago, Hammerlock3 said:

they haven't wrestled in years, and I don't think the PSU coaches if they came to that fork in the road would say "screw it they used to practice together".

But that doesn't matter, i never pressed a specific instance, i refused to, I'm just saying this happens and PSU isn't immune.

I am sure some coaches have used that line of thinking at times.  I don't think it was a factor in Brooks not wrestling Beard nor Starocci not wrestling Griffith.  The merit of the strategy hinges on whether or not you feel you will gain more knowledge of your opponent than they will of you and who you think is likely to make better use of the knowledge gained.  Because the obvious other perspective is that it a risk for Starocci to take on someone as dangerous as Griffith for the first time on the biggest stage.  Historically throughout his career Starocci has been the one that either reversed a result (Washington, Kemerer) or separated himself from his competition (Labriola, Lewis, Massa) in subsequent matches.

I kind of think PSU might be immune to this kind of thinking.  Nolf and Rasheed skipping matches were likely injury management more so than keeping tactics mysterious. I think Nick Lee missed Seabass in a dual a couple years ago, but that was COVID related.  These most recent two are the most suspicious, but also unlikely.  There is no obvious example of them doing it and there are tons of examples of PSU wrestlers dropping a match and then reversing the result at a later date, often on a bigger stage: Ed Ruth (Amuchastegui, Dean), Wright (Hamlin, Wilps), Joseph (Imar, Subjeck, Isaac Jordan, Lewis), Hall (Bo Jordan, Kemerer), Nickal (Jackson, Martin eventually), Cassar (White), RBY (DeSanto), Lee (Eiereman), Brooks (Venz, Amine), and Dean (Caffey).  The best coaching staff in the country probably thinks if there is information to be gained they will likely gather more of it and make better use of it than the other guys.

[Wrestleknownothing]

16 minutes ago, fishbane said:

I am sure some coaches have used that line of thinking at times.  I don't think it was a factor in Brooks not wrestling Beard nor Starocci not wrestling Griffith.  The merit of the strategy hinges on whether or not you feel you will gain more knowledge of your opponent than they will of you and who you think is likely to make better use of the knowledge gained.  Because the obvious other perspective is that it a risk for Starocci to take on someone as dangerous as Griffith for the first time on the biggest stage.  Historically throughout his career Starocci has been the one that either reversed a result (Washington, Kemerer) or separated himself from his competition (Labriola, Lewis, Massa) in subsequent matches.

I kind of think PSU might be immune to this kind of thinking.  Nolf and Rasheed skipping matches were likely injury management more so than keeping tactics mysterious. I think Nick Lee missed Seabass in a dual a couple years ago, but that was COVID related.  These most recent two are the most suspicious, but also unlikely.  There is no obvious example of them doing it and there are tons of examples of PSU wrestlers dropping a match and then reversing the result at a later date, often on a bigger stage: Ed Ruth (Amuchastegui, Dean), Wright (Hamlin, Wilps), Joseph (Imar, Subjeck, Isaac Jordan, Lewis), Hall (Bo Jordan, Kemerer), Nickal (Jackson, Martin eventually), Cassar (White), RBY (DeSanto), Lee (Eiereman), Brooks (Venz, Amine), and Dean (Caffey).  The best coaching staff in the country probably thinks if there is information to be gained they will likely gather more of it and make better use of it than the other guys.

To quote Cael Sanderson, "we are thankful for our opponents because they are very good at showing us what we needed to work on."

[Southend]

18 hours ago, ionel said:

bird flu? 

Bird? Chicken?

[Husker_Du]

if any of you think Carter F'in Starocci was scared to wrestle Shane Griffith, who lost to TRFR Lorenzo Norman this year and Matt Olguin and Mikey Caliendo last year

and who beat Cade Devos in OT and 157lber Terrell Barraclough 2-1 this season

i need you to delete your account on here. 

TIA

[WrestlingRasta]

Griffith’s win in that dual, particularly the last 30 seconds, is everything I hate about folkstyle. 

[Rassling]

guess he was looking for an easy shoe-in win on Sunday to attain his 60th straight win. Yea, he ducked and then came up with some idiotic reason why he did so. Marque matchup ducks like this one are ruining the sport.